Do you think MT will suck one day in the future ?

kh_s · 12-25-2002, 08:45 PM

All types of martial arts, do they train as hard as a MT practitioner ? If they do train just as hard, and condition themselves like a thai fighter does and they go 1 to 1 in the ring, who do you think will win ?

Anyways I heard about the top 10 martial arts in the world on TLC and I think they had a competition, and muay thai came in a bad place. Shaolin came first.

I am not putting down MT ( it`s great for the streets ), I like this art I just have the feeling it will go down soon, I don`t know why. :'(

Kingston · 12-25-2002, 09:39 PM

i know the feeling....as martial arts become more mainstream, and about the money, the quality can go down. as more people learn mauy tai more people will start teaching it, the more people teaching it, doing there own thing...adding new ideas, are lazy, lose costomers becuase of the training difficulty, this all can make for some crappy muay tai. (lol bear with the gramar errors)

and i dont think that MT's ment for Ring competition will be "great for the streets". Going all out in sparing practice is not that great either, it will be harder for you to make the mental changes neccesary to win a fight on the streets, not in the ring.

the ultimate 10 martial arts in the world on TLC was probaly the worst information based martial art program iv ever seen, i think it was just one guy, who doesn't take martial arts, opinion on what he thinks is "cool". the reasons they give are bogus, the reason for ninjistu was "for revealing a hidden art Ninjistu comes in..." what the hell is that "revealing a hidden art" is not a reason for a martial art to be in the top ten in the world. Karate was number 2!! granted the way karate was ment to be, it is a good MA, but they forgot that it is the most Mcdojo-sized martial art out there. Everyone they interview seemed to be from hollywood...wierd. (ok not everyone, but to much).

the criteria for the top ten MA's were not for self defence value.

my last point is, 1 on 1 in the RING muay tai mite win 1 on 1 in the STREETS mauy tai will only help the bigger and stronger. (oversimplified i know).

training "hard" doesn't matter, its training "right" that matters.

sorry for the rant, i dont mean to affend anyone either,
its just my limited experience that i talk from, i always want to hear if i missed anything, or corrections to what iv already said.

thanks.

DJ Coldfusion · 12-26-2002, 10:13 AM

The top 10 show on TLC was great . . . I laughed my a$$ off at the guys taking "full" shots to the neck and groin (after several minutes of meditation

) . . . I mean, don't we train to avoid getting kicked in the nuts in the first place?? I practice Kali, so the section on the Dogbrothers was awesome for me.

Muay Thai does three things that other styles refuse to do.
1. Stick to the basic tools:
Jab, cross, hook, a couple of knees, teep, and a couple of other kicks. MT doesn't try to convince you that there are 600 different ways to strike a human body. The tools are basic, easy to learn, and while it may take a lifetime to master them you can become proficient at all of them before your kenpo-taekwon-goju-shiatsu-ryu friends get through their first 100 forms (afterwhich they still won't be able to punch).

2. Practice live:
Honestly, Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu is one of the few systems outside of Muay Thai that puts you into a combative situation to test out your skills. It is that agressive/competitive elements that allow you to find out what works, what doesn't, what needs improving, and it teaches you to perfect, or atleast improve, your timing.

3. Focus on "realistic" tactics:
Too many systems try to convince you that you can defeat seventeen attacker simultaneously while being restrained with a knife at your throat and a gun in your back. MT doesn't waste its time with that cr*p. Tactics in MT (and I am speaking from a fairly un-educated position here, others with more experience please expand on this) focus on the attacker/opponent directly in front of you and how you can best defeat him/her. You learn how to intercept attacks and respond along the most appropriate angles or lines of attack. You learn how to initiate an attack or a response in a manner that won't open you to new attacks (or atleast minimizing such openings). You learn how to best protect yourself while moving, striking, or evading. The tactics are tested in the ring and, in my opinion, modified when necessary.

And that brings me to a conclusion, MT will not suck in the future because MT is not a "dead" art. By "dead" I mean an art that as sopped evolving. The MT of today is not the MT of 60 years ago. And the MT of tomorrow will not be the MT of today. I think the 3 points I listed above (again I am speaking from a recognized level of ignorance) comprise the core of what makes MT a great martial art and gives it the promise of a great future.

I am barely a recreational MT practicioner so anything I have stated above is based on my own observations and may be seen as flawed by many better/more experienced practicioners. I honestly praqctice Thai Boxing as a supplement to my Kali since I believe the core tools of Thai Boxing blend miraculously well with the movement and methods of Kali. I mention this to just make everyone aware of where I am coming from with my comments.

I believe that Thai Boxing may change in the future, but only for the better.

JIMI · 12-26-2002, 10:51 AM

shaolin? OMG LMFAO!!!!!!!

snipa151 · 12-29-2002, 10:23 PM

I agree that was Bullshit, but did you even watch the ULTIMATE 10? Muay Thai came in number 3, 2 was Karate, and 1 was SKF. LOL they gave BJiu-Jitsu number 10, and I think TKD number 5 or 6. What crap is that, any BJJ can take down a TKD guy. Also MT should have been number 2.

William · 12-30-2002, 10:32 AM

I honestly praqctice Thai Boxing as a supplement to my Kali since I believe the core tools of Thai Boxing blend
miraculously well with the movement and methods of Kali...

That's ONE of the reasons I love MT so much is that I can flow from Kali into MT (and back to Kali) incredibly easily. Probably has a lot to do with the versatility of Kali and the basic quality of Muay Thai (and that MT descended out of a weapons art as well...Krabi-Krabong).

William

12-30-2002, 10:50 AM

Turning a fighting art into a sport usually does reduce its' effectiveness. It didn't do so too mush to MT, since the rules were so bloody barbaric! Basically they put gloves on their hands to stop them poking each others eyes out and said "get on with it and do wha the hell you want".

However, as we have become more civilised the rules are getting tighter. No head butts, no elbows and, in some place, no knees! This means that the participants will slowly stop training in the brutal techniques, as they won't be part of the competition winning process.

So MT's effectiveness HAS been reduced. But it is still rock hard.

William · 12-30-2002, 11:05 AM

However, as we have become more civilised the rules are getting tighter. No head butts, no elbows and, in some place, no knees!

And no plumb.

No Elbows
No knees
No Plumb
=No Muay Thai

Essentially, you take those out, your just Kickboxing. You can't call it Muay Thai any more.

William

(Hey Bri Thai. Lay off those deep fried Mars bars. They're ramping you up and you posting all over the place to work off that sugar high

)

SterileVision · 01-16-2003, 02:24 PM

I don't care for all the little "ring" modifications. I am not a ring fighter, and never will be. Thai boxing was not invented to be a ring sport. It is too brutal, any thai-ring-fighers I've known are crippled usually by their 40-50's. it is, however, an amazing self-dfense tool. I have had no problems defending myself againt armed, multiple, bigger, attackers, and have had to several times. it is the conditioning and real practical techniques that make it work. you dont snap kick someone like other martial arts. if you land a thai kick, a good one, that's gonna do some real damage. it i for real. and dont even get me started on the knees and elbows. the average person, who goes to class by a good teacher two times a week and practices on his or her own, after 6 months will most likely be able to defend themselves against most any would be attacker. Muay thai is real and it works. As good as it is it is also great to use as a base and to be studied in conjuction with kali, bjj, judo and others. a well rounded study is critical, with a large emphasis on grappling.

PentjackSilat · 01-18-2003, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DJ Coldfusion
Tactics in MT (and I am speaking from a fairly un-educated position here, others with more experience please expand on this) focus on the attacker/opponent directly in front of you and how you can best defeat him/her. You learn how to intercept attacks and respond along the most appropriate angles or lines of attack. You learn how to initiate an attack or a response in a manner that won't open you to new attacks (or atleast minimizing such openings). You learn how to best protect yourself while moving, striking, or evading. The tactics are tested in the ring and, in my opinion, modified when necessary.

I will correct you here. Your idea of Muay Thai tactics are correct, but unimportant in an application sense. In application there is one tactic in Muay Thai.

Overwhelm your opponent with a barrage of fast, powerful, ferocious attacks that absolutely will not stop untill they have no head.

ryanhall · 01-18-2003, 07:16 PM

Quote:

I have had no problems defending myself againt armed, multiple, bigger, attackers, and have had to several times

No trouble at all? You'd be the first. I didn't know that Muay Thai instructors taught you how to make knives break on your skin. You must teach me

.

Quote:

the average person, who goes to class by a good teacher two times a week and practices on his or her own, after 6 months will most likely be able to defend themselves against most any would be attacker.

It's easy to defend against a would be attacker. The ones that actually attack can give you trouble though

.

Quote:

Muay thai is real and it works

That it is, and yes it does. But "fights" don't happen very often. Muay Thai is good, but is deficient in a number of ways for holistic personal protection.

Would you mind detailing the times you used Muay Thai to defend yourself so easily against all the aforementioned situations? I would be interested to hear your experiences. Thank you.

JIMI · 01-20-2003, 12:13 PM

Will Muay Thai suck someday in the future? Gimme a break, I think the reason why Thai boxing is so effective is mainly because of its simplicity. There is no monkey or praying mantis or sitting faggot style that takes you 20 years to master all of the motions in it. Simplicity and conditioning is key! If you watch any of the more recent UFC'S or PRIDE fights you will see that most of the fighters are using a Thai boxing based stand up game and then followed by some kind of ground game. I honestly believe that maybe at one point of time all of these ancient traditional styles such as KARATE or Kung fu had a purpose and worked but i just cant see it being as effective as maybe a mixed martial arts background combining punches, kicks , throws, submissions, stand up, ground, etc. This is why i think that Erik Paulsons evolution of the japanese style SHOOTO is highly effective. CSW is what you need to know to survive on the street. Its basically a combination of Thai boxing style kicks and punches, knees and elbows and then insane grappling skills on the ground.

platinum_angel · 01-20-2003, 01:01 PM

hey i remember watching that show lol

SterileVision · 01-20-2003, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JIMI
Will Muay Thai suck someday in the future? Gimme a break, I think the reason why Thai boxing is so effective is mainly because of its simplicity. There is no monkey or praying mantis or sitting faggot style that takes you 20 years to master all of the motions in it. Simplicity and conditioning is key! If you watch any of the more recent UFC'S or PRIDE fights you will see that most of the fighters are using a Thai boxing based stand up game and then followed by some kind of ground game. I honestly believe that maybe at one point of time all of these ancient traditional styles such as KARATE or Kung fu had a purpose and worked but i just cant see it being as effective as maybe a mixed martial arts background combining punches, kicks , throws, submissions, stand up, ground, etc. This is why i think that Erik Paulsons evolution of the japanese style SHOOTO is highly effective. CSW is what you need to know to survive on the street. Its basically a combination of Thai boxing style kicks and punches, knees and elbows and then insane grappling skills on the ground.

HELL YEAH!

JIMI · 01-22-2003, 10:30 AM

12-25-2002, 08:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
kh_s Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 408 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Do you think MT will suck one day in the future ? All types of martial arts, do they train as hard as a MT practitioner ? If they do train just as hard, and condition themselves like a thai fighter does and they go 1 to 1 in the ring, who do you think will win ? Anyways I heard about the top 10 martial arts in the world on TLC and I think they had a competition, and muay thai came in a bad place. Shaolin came first. I am not putting down MT ( it`s great for the streets ), I like this art I just have the feeling it will go down soon, I don`t know why. :'(

12-25-2002, 09:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
Kingston Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 482 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	heh... i know the feeling....as martial arts become more mainstream, and about the money, the quality can go down. as more people learn mauy tai more people will start teaching it, the more people teaching it, doing there own thing...adding new ideas, are lazy, lose costomers becuase of the training difficulty, this all can make for some crappy muay tai. (lol bear with the gramar errors) and i dont think that MT's ment for Ring competition will be "great for the streets". Going all out in sparing practice is not that great either, it will be harder for you to make the mental changes neccesary to win a fight on the streets, not in the ring. the ultimate 10 martial arts in the world on TLC was probaly the worst information based martial art program iv ever seen, i think it was just one guy, who doesn't take martial arts, opinion on what he thinks is "cool". the reasons they give are bogus, the reason for ninjistu was "for revealing a hidden art Ninjistu comes in..." what the hell is that "revealing a hidden art" is not a reason for a martial art to be in the top ten in the world. Karate was number 2!! granted the way karate was ment to be, it is a good MA, but they forgot that it is the most Mcdojo-sized martial art out there. Everyone they interview seemed to be from hollywood...wierd. (ok not everyone, but to much). the criteria for the top ten MA's were not for self defence value. my last point is, 1 on 1 in the RING muay tai mite win 1 on 1 in the STREETS mauy tai will only help the bigger and stronger. (oversimplified i know). training "hard" doesn't matter, its training "right" that matters. sorry for the rant, i dont mean to affend anyone either, its just my limited experience that i talk from, i always want to hear if i missed anything, or corrections to what iv already said. thanks.

12-26-2002, 10:13 AM	#3 (permalink)
DJ Coldfusion Novice Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: SLC. Utah, USA Posts: 44 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	The top 10 show on TLC was great . . . I laughed my a$$ off at the guys taking "full" shots to the neck and groin (after several minutes of meditation ) . . . I mean, don't we train to avoid getting kicked in the nuts in the first place?? I practice Kali, so the section on the Dogbrothers was awesome for me. Muay Thai does three things that other styles refuse to do. 1. Stick to the basic tools: Jab, cross, hook, a couple of knees, teep, and a couple of other kicks. MT doesn't try to convince you that there are 600 different ways to strike a human body. The tools are basic, easy to learn, and while it may take a lifetime to master them you can become proficient at all of them before your kenpo-taekwon-goju-shiatsu-ryu friends get through their first 100 forms (afterwhich they still won't be able to punch). 2. Practice live: Honestly, Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu is one of the few systems outside of Muay Thai that puts you into a combative situation to test out your skills. It is that agressive/competitive elements that allow you to find out what works, what doesn't, what needs improving, and it teaches you to perfect, or atleast improve, your timing. 3. Focus on "realistic" tactics: Too many systems try to convince you that you can defeat seventeen attacker simultaneously while being restrained with a knife at your throat and a gun in your back. MT doesn't waste its time with that crp. Tactics in MT (and I am speaking from a fairly un-educated position here, others with more experience please expand on this) focus on the attacker/opponent directly in front of you and how you can best defeat him/her. You learn how to intercept attacks and respond along the most appropriate angles or lines of attack. You learn how to initiate an attack or a response in a manner that won't open you to new attacks (or atleast minimizing such openings). You learn how to best protect yourself while moving, striking, or evading. The tactics are tested in the ring and, in my opinion, modified when necessary. And that brings me to a conclusion, MT will not suck in the future because MT is not a "dead" art. By "dead" I mean an art that as sopped evolving. The MT of today is not the MT of 60 years ago. And the MT of tomorrow will not be the MT of today. I think the 3 points I listed above (again I am speaking from a recognized level of ignorance) comprise the core of what makes MT a great martial art and gives it the promise of a great future. I am barely a recreational MT practicioner so anything I have stated above is based on my own observations and may be seen as flawed by many better/more experienced practicioners. I honestly praqctice Thai Boxing as a supplement to my Kali since I believe the core tools of Thai Boxing blend miraculously well with the movement and methods of Kali. I mention this to just make everyone aware of where I am coming from with my comments. I believe that Thai Boxing may change in the future, but only for the better. Last edited by DJ Coldfusion; 12-26-2002 at 10:18 AM.*

12-26-2002, 10:51 AM	#4 (permalink)
JIMI Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: salt lake city Posts: 328 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	shaolin? OMG LMFAO!!!!!!! __________________ Hit first, Hit last, Always answer back....

12-29-2002, 10:23 PM	#5 (permalink)
snipa151 Novice Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Toronto Posts: 8 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I agree that was Bullshit, but did you even watch the ULTIMATE 10? Muay Thai came in number 3, 2 was Karate, and 1 was SKF. LOL they gave BJiu-Jitsu number 10, and I think TKD number 5 or 6. What crap is that, any BJJ can take down a TKD guy. Also MT should have been number 2. __________________ "Think of your shins as a baseball bat, you can't snap a bat, you must swing it. Do that and you will achieve a Thai kick" [Tiger Level in MUAY THAI]

12-30-2002, 10:32 AM	#6 (permalink)
William Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: R.I. Posts: 560 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I honestly praqctice Thai Boxing as a supplement to my Kali since I believe the core tools of Thai Boxing blend miraculously well with the movement and methods of Kali... That's ONE of the reasons I love MT so much is that I can flow from Kali into MT (and back to Kali) incredibly easily. Probably has a lot to do with the versatility of Kali and the basic quality of Muay Thai (and that MT descended out of a weapons art as well...Krabi-Krabong). William __________________ New England Pekiti-Tirsia Pitbulls Mongrel Combative Arts www.mongrelcombativearts.com All you need is love........and a sharp blade.....a hardwood flat stick......Oh, oh, oh and a Paraordinance lda 14.45 loaded with 230 grain hydra shocks,ranger SXT's or golden sabres

12-30-2002, 10:50 AM	#7 (permalink)
Bri Thai Guest Posts: n/a	Turning a fighting art into a sport usually does reduce its' effectiveness. It didn't do so too mush to MT, since the rules were so bloody barbaric! Basically they put gloves on their hands to stop them poking each others eyes out and said "get on with it and do wha the hell you want". However, as we have become more civilised the rules are getting tighter. No head butts, no elbows and, in some place, no knees! This means that the participants will slowly stop training in the brutal techniques, as they won't be part of the competition winning process. So MT's effectiveness HAS been reduced. But it is still rock hard.

12-30-2002, 11:05 AM	#8 (permalink)
William Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: R.I. Posts: 560 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	However, as we have become more civilised the rules are getting tighter. No head butts, no elbows and, in some place, no knees! And no plumb. No Elbows No knees No Plumb =No Muay Thai Essentially, you take those out, your just Kickboxing. You can't call it Muay Thai any more. William (Hey Bri Thai. Lay off those deep fried Mars bars. They're ramping you up and you posting all over the place to work off that sugar high ) __________________ New England Pekiti-Tirsia Pitbulls Mongrel Combative Arts www.mongrelcombativearts.com All you need is love........and a sharp blade.....a hardwood flat stick......Oh, oh, oh and a Paraordinance lda 14.45 loaded with 230 grain hydra shocks,ranger SXT's or golden sabres

01-16-2003, 02:24 PM	#9 (permalink)
SterileVision Novice Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	does thai boxing suck? I don't care for all the little "ring" modifications. I am not a ring fighter, and never will be. Thai boxing was not invented to be a ring sport. It is too brutal, any thai-ring-fighers I've known are crippled usually by their 40-50's. it is, however, an amazing self-dfense tool. I have had no problems defending myself againt armed, multiple, bigger, attackers, and have had to several times. it is the conditioning and real practical techniques that make it work. you dont snap kick someone like other martial arts. if you land a thai kick, a good one, that's gonna do some real damage. it i for real. and dont even get me started on the knees and elbows. the average person, who goes to class by a good teacher two times a week and practices on his or her own, after 6 months will most likely be able to defend themselves against most any would be attacker. Muay thai is real and it works. As good as it is it is also great to use as a base and to be studied in conjuction with kali, bjj, judo and others. a well rounded study is critical, with a large emphasis on grappling.

01-20-2003, 12:13 PM	#12 (permalink)
JIMI Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: salt lake city Posts: 328 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Will Muay Thai suck someday in the future? Gimme a break, I think the reason why Thai boxing is so effective is mainly because of its simplicity. There is no monkey or praying mantis or sitting faggot style that takes you 20 years to master all of the motions in it. Simplicity and conditioning is key! If you watch any of the more recent UFC'S or PRIDE fights you will see that most of the fighters are using a Thai boxing based stand up game and then followed by some kind of ground game. I honestly believe that maybe at one point of time all of these ancient traditional styles such as KARATE or Kung fu had a purpose and worked but i just cant see it being as effective as maybe a mixed martial arts background combining punches, kicks , throws, submissions, stand up, ground, etc. This is why i think that Erik Paulsons evolution of the japanese style SHOOTO is highly effective. CSW is what you need to know to survive on the street. Its basically a combination of Thai boxing style kicks and punches, knees and elbows and then insane grappling skills on the ground. __________________ Hit first, Hit last, Always answer back....

01-20-2003, 01:01 PM	#13 (permalink)
platinum_angel Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: heaven and hell Posts: 714 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	hey i remember watching that show lol __________________ In order to experience true peace you must first overcome true hardship. remember the wind, for it flows through all of us. I like smeg-ma chips. for all those who i offend............i don't give a shit

01-22-2003, 10:30 AM	#15 (permalink)
JIMI Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: salt lake city Posts: 328 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	__________________ Hit first, Hit last, Always answer back....

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