Top 15 Martial Artists - Page 2

WaTEr · 08-13-2003, 01:54 PM

The ora of the force is peculiar with that one...

MuayThaiFighter · 08-19-2003, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BadgerFu57
Luke Skywalker could kick Dim Mak anyday! They may have the Chi, but he's got the force!

Who cares what skywalker can do?

The top martial arts styles in my opinion.

Pankration
Shooto Fighting
Savate
MuayThai Kickboxing
Boxing
Submission Wrestling
Brazilian Jujitsu
Aikido
Judo
Arnis
Kali

John05 · 09-13-2003, 08:49 PM

Benny "The Jet" Urquidez got his ass kicked by a muay thai fighter. He was taken from the fight in a stretcher. It was covered up cause the paparazzi didn't think the rest of the world wanted to know how badly he was beaten.

After that one fight Benny "The Jet" Urquidez never wanted to ever fight another MuayThai boxer again. The media loved "the Jet" so they just made it seem like he won, to avoid spoiling his "perfect record."

In fact repeated incidences like this where a well known martial artist would get his ass handed to him in the thai boxing ring is what led to martial arts leagues to change the rules making it illegal to use elbows and knees.

Those stories you hear of elbows and knees becoming illegal because they could kill ppl is true. They only fail to mention that the killing was done by MuayThai.

There were better fighters out there than "the Jet" (aka Coward). Ones who would get beaten in NHB (no holds barred) competitions, but still go back to fighting in them regardless of the presence of MuayThai boxers.

If that "top 15 martial artists" list was worth the few kilobytes of storage it's taking up it would be composed of at least 50% muayThai kickboxers. It would be a lot more accurate and would finally disillusion ppl enough to let them realize that the level of your "belt" doesn't depict your fighting skill. MuayThai kickboxers don't use belts, they still dominated world MA tourneys until martial arts leagues made it nearly impossible for Thai to compete with their rules.

Don't accuse me of promoting my own race, i'm not thai, not even close. i'm just boxer who was interested in where kickboxing came from. Japanese and US sent their men into thailand to learn MuayThai. They took the skill back to their own countries repackaged it as "kickboxing" and marketed it to the public as a martial art derived from karate (100% false).

MuayThaiFighter · 09-14-2003, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by John05
Benny "The Jet" Urquidez got his ass kicked by a muay thai fighter. He was taken from the fight in a stretcher. It was covered up cause the paparazzi didn't think the rest of the world wanted to know how badly he was beaten.

After that one fight Benny "The Jet" Urquidez never wanted to ever fight another MuayThai boxer again. The media loved "the Jet" so they just made it seem like he won, to avoid spoiling his "perfect record."

In fact repeated incidences like this where a well known martial artist would get his ass handed to him in the thai boxing ring is what led to martial arts leagues to change the rules making it illegal to use elbows and knees.

Those stories you hear of elbows and knees becoming illegal because they could kill ppl is true. They only fail to mention that the killing was done by MuayThai.

There were better fighters out there than "the Jet" (aka Coward). Ones who would get beaten in NHB (no holds barred) competitions, but still go back to fighting in them regardless of the presence of MuayThai boxers.

If that "top 15 martial artists" list was worth the few kilobytes of storage it's taking up it would be composed of at least 50% muayThai kickboxers. It would be a lot more accurate and would finally disillusion ppl enough to let them realize that the level of your "belt" doesn't depict your fighting skill. MuayThai kickboxers don't use belts, they still dominated world MA tourneys until martial arts leagues made it nearly impossible for Thai to compete with their rules.

Don't accuse me of promoting my own race, i'm not thai, not even close. i'm just boxer who was interested in where kickboxing came from. Japanese and US sent their men into thailand to learn MuayThai. They took the skill back to their own countries repackaged it as "kickboxing" and marketed it to the public as a martial art derived from karate (100% false).

Cool a guy who has done his homework and knows his shit.

All of what you say is so true.

MuayThaiFighter · 09-14-2003, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JP Prideaux
Was searching around for various stuff and I came by this list. Of course its just one person's opinion... curious how you other guys feel about it. I myself have a few gripes with it (despite not knowing a thing about one or two of the mentioned martial artists)

So... what do you guys think of this list? Benny shouldnt be number 1. No damn way! Still dont understand how Dennis Alexio got onto this list. . . ah well. Comments.

1) Benny "The Jet" Urquidez: Mother was a pro-wrestler. Father was a pro-boxer. Has a professional record of over 200 wins with no defeats. 63-0 with 57 KO's in World title fights. 6-time World kickboxing champion in 5 different weight divisions. Has a black belt in 9 different styles of martial arts.

2) Masahiko Kimura: Undefeated All-Japan open-weight Judo champion for 13 years. Holds a TKO victory over Helio Gracie. The greatest Japanese competition fighter ever.

3) Helio Gracie: Was Brazilian champion for 20 years. Has only two defeats. One to Kimura when Helio refused to tap-out, and the corner threw in the towel. One to a former student in a real grudge Vale Tudo
rules match that lasted over 3 hours. At the finish of the fight, both men sat up on their knees exhausted. The former student then stood up and kicked Helio in the head knocking him out.

4) "The Iceman" Jean-Yves Theriault: Considered to be the greatest full contact kickboxer ever. 69-6 (with 1 draw with Don Wilson) with 61 KO's. 23-time World kickboxing champion.

5) Rickson Gracie: Some consider him to be the best MMA fighter in the World at this time. Has an impressive, almost "mythical" record with some 400 fights without ever being defeated - representing his family's legendary martial art.

6) Rob Kaman: Is a "living legend" in kickboxing. Had 98 wins with 78 KO's fighting the best from around the World during his career. Has a TKO victory over Theriault.

7) Carlson Gracie Sr.: Legend of the Gracie family. At age 17, defended the family's honor by beating the former Gracie student who beat Helio.

8) Don "The Dragon" Wilson: He was the first Kung Fu practitioner to become a World kickboxing champion. 71-5 (2 draws) with 47 KO's. 11-time World kickboxing champion. Has fought Theriault to a draw. Has wins over both Maurice Smith and Dennis Alexio.

9) Bill "Superfoot" Wallace: Retired as an undefeated World kickboxing champion. It is said that his leg kick has been clocked over 60 miles per hour.

10) Ralph "The Pitbull" Gracie: One of the lesser known Gracies. Has a legitimate 81-0 record.

11) Dennis "Kahake" Alexio: Is still the reigning IKF World heavyweight kickboxing champion. 70-2 with 65 KO's.

12) Sifu Vizzio: 5-time World kickboxing champion in 5 different weight divisions. 47-1 with 35 KO's. 17 World title defenses. 55-0 with 54 KO's in real 400lbs-and-under Kung Fu "Death Matches" (similar to the original UFC fights) back in the 70's.

13) Joe Lewis: Retired as the World heavyweight Karate champion. Is called the "Greatest Karate fighter that has ever lived."

14) "Mr. Perfect" Ernesto Hoost: 86-14 with 56 KO's. 3-time World kickboxing champion. 3-time K-1 World champion. (Zach: Isn't he now a 4-time K-1 champion?)

15) Royce Gracie: Started fighting at age 8. Dominated early UFCs. A few losses here late in his career has somewhat took away from his "legend." Could never be referred to as over-rated in any way.

Interesting list yet strange.Funny how this article forgets to mention that these world kickboxing champions like Benny The Jet,and Super Foot Wallace are actually only American kickboxers,instead of MuayThai fighters(from the original form of kickboxing).

This is how I see it and I know some will agree and some will disagree,but the fact is until you have fought and beaten a MuayThai fighter you cannot possibly be called a champion in an art that involves boxing and kicks,after all kickboxing is just an imitated version of MuayThai from Americans wanting to change the style a bit and then take credit for the art.

Beat a MuayThai fighter in stand up then call yourself a champion,but it is very unlikely that a MuayThai fighter will lose against any other style of stand up fighting.

I have noticed that there seems to be so many world kickboxing champions these days,seems strange how there can be more then one at a time.Every one seems to want to be a champion wannabee.These same so called champions seem to be only Americans so how is it they manage to get that title.In order to be a true champion you have to fight other styles and most of all be able to beat a muay thai fighter,which is basically impossible.

Most of those American kickboxers who did fight against MuayThai fighters lost.

As far as grappling there is no doubt that the Gracies were at one time the best and dominated all other grappling styles and some stand up styles.

magic · 09-18-2003, 01:02 AM

Don't forget Robin - he even beat Bruce Lee (as Kato) in one episode!

Cheers

Martin

jules · 09-19-2003, 01:01 AM

Mas Ohyama should be in any list.

bartjam · 09-27-2003, 11:22 AM

well...

1.Wong Sheung Leung (King of no-rules clandestine fights in HongKong)
2.Bruce Lee
3. Yip Man (sifu of Wong SL and Bruce)
4. Uyeshiba
5. Masutatsu Oyama
6. Helio Gracie
7. Rickson Gracie
8. René Latosa (Escrima)
9. Dan Inosanto
10. Machado brothers

and then... many Kickboxers, Vale Tudo fighters

Tom Yum · 09-27-2003, 01:22 PM

Randy Couture "Captain America!"

cjmcg · 02-04-2004, 10:45 AM

Master's Toddy & Sken, These guys woulda killed benny the jet n bill superfoot don the dragon,

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP Prideaux

Was searching around for various stuff and I came by this list. Of course its just one person's opinion... curious how you other guys feel about it. I myself have a few gripes with it (despite not knowing a thing about one or two of the mentioned martial artists)

So... what do you guys think of this list? Benny shouldnt be number 1. No damn way! Still dont understand how Dennis Alexio got onto this list. . . ah well. Comments.

1) Benny "The Jet" Urquidez: Mother was a pro-wrestler. Father was a pro-boxer. Has a professional record of over 200 wins with no defeats. 63-0 with 57 KO's in World title fights. 6-time World kickboxing champion in 5 different weight divisions. Has a black belt in 9 different styles of martial arts.

2) Masahiko Kimura: Undefeated All-Japan open-weight Judo champion for 13 years. Holds a TKO victory over Helio Gracie. The greatest Japanese competition fighter ever.

3) Helio Gracie: Was Brazilian champion for 20 years. Has only two defeats. One to Kimura when Helio refused to tap-out, and the corner threw in the towel. One to a former student in a real grudge Vale Tudo
rules match that lasted over 3 hours. At the finish of the fight, both men sat up on their knees exhausted. The former student then stood up and kicked Helio in the head knocking him out.

4) "The Iceman" Jean-Yves Theriault: Considered to be the greatest full contact kickboxer ever. 69-6 (with 1 draw with Don Wilson) with 61 KO's. 23-time World kickboxing champion.

5) Rickson Gracie: Some consider him to be the best MMA fighter in the World at this time. Has an impressive, almost "mythical" record with some 400 fights without ever being defeated - representing his family's legendary martial art.

6) Rob Kaman: Is a "living legend" in kickboxing. Had 98 wins with 78 KO's fighting the best from around the World during his career. Has a TKO victory over Theriault.

7) Carlson Gracie Sr.: Legend of the Gracie family. At age 17, defended the family's honor by beating the former Gracie student who beat Helio.

8) Don "The Dragon" Wilson: He was the first Kung Fu practitioner to become a World kickboxing champion. 71-5 (2 draws) with 47 KO's. 11-time World kickboxing champion. Has fought Theriault to a draw. Has wins over both Maurice Smith and Dennis Alexio.

9) Bill "Superfoot" Wallace: Retired as an undefeated World kickboxing champion. It is said that his leg kick has been clocked over 60 miles per hour.

10) Ralph "The Pitbull" Gracie: One of the lesser known Gracies. Has a legitimate 81-0 record.

11) Dennis "Kahake" Alexio: Is still the reigning IKF World heavyweight kickboxing champion. 70-2 with 65 KO's.

12) Sifu Vizzio: 5-time World kickboxing champion in 5 different weight divisions. 47-1 with 35 KO's. 17 World title defenses. 55-0 with 54 KO's in real 400lbs-and-under Kung Fu "Death Matches" (similar to the original UFC fights) back in the 70's.

13) Joe Lewis: Retired as the World heavyweight Karate champion. Is called the "Greatest Karate fighter that has ever lived."

14) "Mr. Perfect" Ernesto Hoost: 86-14 with 56 KO's. 3-time World kickboxing champion. 3-time K-1 World champion. (Zach: Isn't he now a 4-time K-1 champion?)

15) Royce Gracie: Started fighting at age 8. Dominated early UFCs. A few losses here late in his career has somewhat took away from his "legend." Could never be referred to as over-rated in any way.

m.artist · 02-04-2004, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bartjam

well...

1.Wong Sheung Leung (King of no-rules clandestine fights in HongKong)
2.Bruce Lee
3. Yip Man (sifu of Wong SL and Bruce)
4. Uyeshiba
5. Masutatsu Oyama
6. Helio Gracie
7. Rickson Gracie
8. René Latosa (Escrima)
9. Dan Inosanto
10. Machado brothers

and then... many Kickboxers, Vale Tudo fighters

i like that list..just switch wong with bruce then put uieshiba at number 2. bruce as number 1 then ueishiba then wong then the rest of the list stays as is

osopardo · 02-04-2004, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP Prideaux

Helio Gracie...One to a former student in a real grudge Vale Tudo rules match that lasted over 3 hours. At the finish of the fight, both men sat up on their knees exhausted. The former student then stood up and kicked Helio in the head knocking him out.

Who was the student? Man, what I wouldn't pay for a video of that match!

little bullie · 02-04-2004, 01:01 PM

the problem is the term top fifteen is so subjective. there is no established criterion.

although i must admit it's hard to have don wilson on there when he did fight in thailand 2x and suffered punishing losses and then you have undefeated helio gracie but a few gracies later you see carlson beat the guy who beat helio?

i do have a soft spot for apidej sit hirun, 350 wins 10 losses and 1 draw
7 titles in english boxing and muay thai held for a total of 10+years? but few fights outside thailand.

MuayThaiFighter · 02-08-2004, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuayThaiFighter

Who cares what skywalker can do?

The top martial arts styles in my opinion.

Pankration
Shooto Fighting
Savate
MuayThai Kickboxing
Boxing
Submission Wrestling
Brazilian Jujitsu
Aikido
Judo
Arnis
Kali

I agree with this list although you forgot boxing.

MuayThaiFighter · 02-08-2004, 07:16 AM

I noticed some of the greatest fighters of all time are missing on that list like Mohammad Ali,George Foreman,Lewis, and Mike Tyson(used to be good) among a few other boxers.I think these boxers deserve more respect then guys on the list like Superfoot Wallace, Benny the Jet and Don Wilson.

I respected Mike Tyson as a fighter in the old days until he became a cheater by biting Foreman's ear, but other then that I have no respect for him because he is an asshole as everyone knows he treats people like shit.However fighters are what we're talking about so I would still have to include him in list if we're talking about past fighters.

That's just for boxing though.

Now lets not forget about MMA UFC pro fighters like Lance Gibson,Tank Abbott,Dan Savern,Ken Shamrock,Tito,The Ice Man etc. All these fighters deserve to be on list before all the others on the list .

08-13-2003, 01:54 PM	#16 (permalink)
WaTEr Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: U.S Posts: 160	The ora of the force is peculiar with that one... __________________ "Strict form, rules and patterns have inherent weaknesses" "Fluidity was the ideal--to keep moving.Water,lee would always say, is the toughest thing on earth. It is virutually indestructable; it is soft, yet it can tear rocks apart. Move like water." "Acept what is useful. Reject what is useless" "Remember, too, that Jeet Kune Do is merely a term, a label to be used as a boat to get one across; once across, it is to be discarded and not carried on one's back." "Please do not take the finger to be the moon or fix your gaze so intently on the finger as to miss all the beautiful sights of heaven. After all, the usefulness of the finger is in pointing away from itself to the light which illumines finger and all. ---"

09-13-2003, 08:49 PM	#18 (permalink)
John05 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 10	Benny "The Jet" Urquidez got his ass kicked by a muay thai fighter. He was taken from the fight in a stretcher. It was covered up cause the paparazzi didn't think the rest of the world wanted to know how badly he was beaten. After that one fight Benny "The Jet" Urquidez never wanted to ever fight another MuayThai boxer again. The media loved "the Jet" so they just made it seem like he won, to avoid spoiling his "perfect record." In fact repeated incidences like this where a well known martial artist would get his ass handed to him in the thai boxing ring is what led to martial arts leagues to change the rules making it illegal to use elbows and knees. Those stories you hear of elbows and knees becoming illegal because they could kill ppl is true. They only fail to mention that the killing was done by MuayThai. There were better fighters out there than "the Jet" (aka Coward). Ones who would get beaten in NHB (no holds barred) competitions, but still go back to fighting in them regardless of the presence of MuayThai boxers. If that "top 15 martial artists" list was worth the few kilobytes of storage it's taking up it would be composed of at least 50% muayThai kickboxers. It would be a lot more accurate and would finally disillusion ppl enough to let them realize that the level of your "belt" doesn't depict your fighting skill. MuayThai kickboxers don't use belts, they still dominated world MA tourneys until martial arts leagues made it nearly impossible for Thai to compete with their rules. Don't accuse me of promoting my own race, i'm not thai, not even close. i'm just boxer who was interested in where kickboxing came from. Japanese and US sent their men into thailand to learn MuayThai. They took the skill back to their own countries repackaged it as "kickboxing" and marketed it to the public as a martial art derived from karate (100% false). Last edited by John05; 09-13-2003 at 08:57 PM.

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09-18-2003, 01:02 AM	#21 (permalink)
magic Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Western Australia Posts: 33	Don't forget Robin - he even beat Bruce Lee (as Kato) in one episode! Cheers Martin

09-19-2003, 01:01 AM	#22 (permalink)
jules Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 474	Mas Ohyama should be in any list.

09-27-2003, 11:22 AM	#23 (permalink)
bartjam Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: italy Posts: 178	well... 1.Wong Sheung Leung (King of no-rules clandestine fights in HongKong) 2.Bruce Lee 3. Yip Man (sifu of Wong SL and Bruce) 4. Uyeshiba 5. Masutatsu Oyama 6. Helio Gracie 7. Rickson Gracie 8. René Latosa (Escrima) 9. Dan Inosanto 10. Machado brothers and then... many Kickboxers, Vale Tudo fighters

09-27-2003, 01:22 PM	#24 (permalink)
Tom Yum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Here and there. Posts: 11,218	Randy Couture "Captain America!"

02-04-2004, 01:01 PM	#28 (permalink)
little bullie Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 50	the problem is the term top fifteen is so subjective. there is no established criterion. although i must admit it's hard to have don wilson on there when he did fight in thailand 2x and suffered punishing losses and then you have undefeated helio gracie but a few gracies later you see carlson beat the guy who beat helio? i do have a soft spot for apidej sit hirun, 350 wins 10 losses and 1 draw 7 titles in english boxing and muay thai held for a total of 10+years? but few fights outside thailand.

02-08-2004, 07:16 AM	#30 (permalink)
MuayThaiFighter Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver,BC,Canada Posts: 489	I noticed some of the greatest fighters of all time are missing on that list like Mohammad Ali,George Foreman,Lewis, and Mike Tyson(used to be good) among a few other boxers.I think these boxers deserve more respect then guys on the list like Superfoot Wallace, Benny the Jet and Don Wilson. I respected Mike Tyson as a fighter in the old days until he became a cheater by biting Foreman's ear, but other then that I have no respect for him because he is an asshole as everyone knows he treats people like shit.However fighters are what we're talking about so I would still have to include him in list if we're talking about past fighters. That's just for boxing though. Now lets not forget about MMA UFC pro fighters like Lance Gibson,Tank Abbott,Dan Savern,Ken Shamrock,Tito,The Ice Man etc. All these fighters deserve to be on list before all the others on the list .

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