Brian

Before I ask this question, let me ask those of you who religiously defend that Muay Thai does not involve the use of forms to simply not reply to this thread. As disconcerting as it may be to some, I believe that forms did at one time exist as part of Muay Thai or Muay Boran.

I am not interested in hearing about how much forms suck or are limited or useless etc. I could swear that I've seen pictographs or heiroglyphs or something of that sort with pictures of forms. I remember seeing a scene in On Bak where a guy is practicing some sort of form (granted this may have simply been done for dramatic effect or as a result of the director's creative license). I also asked Ajarn Chai about this a week ago and his oppinion was that forms did in fact have a place at one point in time in Muay Boran.

Does anyone know of any resources, books, web sites, videos etc., that might shed more light onto this subject and even better, might even demonstrate a form or two?

Thanks,
Sincerely,
Brian

OctaviousBP

Hi Brian,

There are definately some kind of form in Muay Boran, at least in the Chaya style taught by Ajarn Lek in Bangkok. However, the "forms" I learned were not quite like a TKD form, or Karate, but rather like a drill or exercise. I wish I could describe them properly, but my memory and creative inabilities prevent me from trying. There was a lot of standing on one leg, a lot of "walking" which resembled the walking or shuffling in the ram muay. Pedro Villalobos will be putting up a website soon, and it may have more information on Muay Boran. I wish I could help you more, but I only worked a couple of weeks on the Muay Boran. Good luck, and keep us posted. I'm quite interested in the ancient Thai arts.

D

majapahit

I was told that some trainers put techniques in the ram muay . It's difficult to see if you don't know . It should be like some of the silat dances , or tai chi forms : techniques in disguise . So maybe you can look at the ram muay as a sort of form .
Any comment ?

Brian

Thanks so far for the input. Actually, I do consider the Ram Muay/Wai Khru as a form... although not a typical one. It's basically a set pattern of movements done in a specific sequence.

However, the Ram Muay/Wai Khru that I was taught (TBA) is pretty staight forward. All business, discipline and respect not much else in the way of hidden techniques... at least not any that I know of. We do the seated portion and then the three step dance and that's about it.

The Muay Thai Institute of Kunponli which is near by has a whole elaborate arrow and bow routine and then a walk back to their home corner while looking over their shoulder and nodding their head. Pretty cool actually... I like it a lot, although it's not as expressive of my own philosophies and style it's really cool to see the variations and attitudes of a school come out in such a manner.

Chalambok, where's your experise when I need it? Terry, any help here?

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Sincerely,

Brian

Shaolin Bushido

ttt for the sake of someone who can answer the thread starter.(maybe it sunk too fast)

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george stando

They are not forms in the sense you are thinking of......They are movement patterns of attack and defense. Because of the lack of equipment movements were grouped together in simple ways.

I posted some info on the new muay boran DVDs which breakdown the theories and principles and the second one goes through these techniques in sequences which are drilled in two man movement. try: www.ancientmuay.com and www.bareknucklemuay.com

The upcoming books by Vincent Giordano which are cross cultural studies of the bare knuckle fighting arts should answer most questions about the exact systems and movements.

Shaolin Bushido:
On the other thread you asked for a teacher on the east coast fully versed in Muay Boran, Muay Thai, lerd rit and several styles of KK, and it would be best to seek out Vincent Giordano, his knowledge and skills are truly exceptional and since he is a intrepid researcher you will get more than you bargained for all the way down the line.

chalambok

I think it could be fairly said that the two-man drills in krabi-krabong are a form of kata, specifying kata is a vague referent of combat. And, using that definition, any pre-arranged movement can also be considered a kata. Perhaps a better definition might contain the tradition of hundreds of years. It is all too exclusive to me, and I think anyone's opinion on this is as relevant as another's. As far as contacting Vincent Giordano, good luck. I believe, but do not know for sure, that he spends a lot of time in SE Asia. Consequently, he may not teach in the United States often or at all. I simply do not know.

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www.chalambok.com

Khun Kao

I was about to ask the same regarding Vincent. I believe he is in town at present (he and I just exchanged emails this evening) but he is already referring to a trip he's taking to Burma pretty soon.

But I do agree, if you *can* hook up and train with him, he is EASILY the best source of Thai martial arts on the East Coast....

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Kru Brooks C. Miller
USMTA Director of DC, MD, and VA
http://khunkao.com/

george stando

Vincent has taught in NYC for over twelve years. Many of the senior students go to thailand for advanced training with him year after year. He is not commercial at all nor seeks any type of publicity outside of writing articles for magazines, etc. But sincerity and an open willingness to learn usually is a ticket in when he is back in the US>

Shaolin Bushido

Shaolin Bushido:
On the other thread you asked for a teacher on the east coast fully versed in Muay Boran, Muay Thai, lerd rit and several styles of KK, and it would be best to seek out Vincent Giordano, his knowledge and skills are truly exceptional and since he is a intrepid researcher you will get more than you bargained for all the way down the line.[/quote]

Thank you very much for your assistance. I will check those links as well as communicate with Mr Giordano as soon as I can.

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