darrianation

Yea bro' it's true! It happens from time to time...Don't under estimate San Shou it is a solid MA. I am more a MT guy, but I am impressed with San Shou.

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Tom Yum

Its happening more frequently.

Most of the time, its China's best vs. Thailand's pretty good fighters, some san shou guys are getting to K-1 level!

Sanshou is a little different than muay thai. They don't use elbows, but use a few additional kicks that muay thai fighters don't use - like the side kick, axe kick and spinning back kick in addition to the Thai style push kick and shin kick.

They also throw from the clinch. The Chinese fighters learn shuai jiao (Chinese grappling) which is a form of martial arts itself, plus they get coached by western wrestling coaches.

IMO you have to be in absolutely awesome condition to be a san shou fighter, more so than boxing or wrestling alone. Still waiting for the Cung Le vs. Liu Hailong matchup!!

Screamtruth

There it is in a nutshell. I've seen or read about the Chinese vs. Thai events, and I didn't recognize many of the Thai fighters. I do not disrespect the SS guys, but I do question if they are fighting the real top fighters in Thailand.

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darrianation

San Shou is pretty cool! Wasn't it Cung Lee (sp?) who fought in K1 using San Shou rules? Anyway he was using scissor kicks that were amazing.

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Boxiados

That means that they improved their style in the last years! When MT took over and became the fashion, the chinese felt they were loosing territory and let's say it... Business, as a matter of fact I know the most popular Kung Fu school here run by chinese who used to teach Kung Fu for years turning into the most popular and best Thai and kickboxing school, while now they have hundreds of students for MT they have just few for the Kung Fu.

In the last three years I did not follow that much what's happening on MMA scene, but from what I remember back 4 or five years ago, SS and Sanda fighters I met did not stand a chance, I fought few instructors and in most of the fights I just destroyed their legs with low kicks, I always worked my throws and take downs so I used to get them on the ground before they do it.
They must have worked very hard lately cause they felt the need to get back the popularity that the Thais took away in the last 15 years.
You must remember that the real Muay Thai is more complete than the commercial one you see now on the rings, it includes loads of effective take down and throw techniques.

Ok for the side kicks which I use from my Savate back ground even if they
are easier to catch or divert and kick behind the leg (or behind tha head and back if you're a badass).

Kicks like axe kick are useless, we used to use them when we practiced American kickboxing 15 years ago... a waste of time and energy! Spinnig kicks, we all train them to perfection at the gym, but in the fight on the ring you tend to use them just when you can, beside being energy and breath consuming they expose you to some dangerous counters if you miss the target.

As we all know styles are a matter of choice and taste, I am more a fan of Thai culture! I found my formula, The real Muay Thai plus a good base of traditinal boxing plus grappling!
If lately Sanchou and Sanda are becoming more competitive, good! means Muay Thai inspired them a lot and they learned so much from it, now it's time for Muay Thai to fill the gap if any!

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Tom Yum

You bring up a good point about authentic muay thai compared to competitive muay thai. Competitive muay thai is still very dangerous - a shin kick to the neck or a knee to the rib cage can make you have a bad day!

The authentic muay thai brings the clinch work to a whole different level. Some of the videos that I watch show guys working for sweeps and hip throws from the clinch, while also trying to soften their opponent with knees & elbows.

You don't see this kind of clinch work even in K-1.

Still Sanshou fighters will attempt to close the gap for a double or single leg takedown, which is not taught in muay thai and use sets of wrestling throws (souplet, souplex etc) once they are in the clinch.

sanshou2

Sanshou was originally developed by the chinese military for combat, they use to hold inter-military competitions that gradually evolved to the sport that it is today with the "military" techniques taken out.It wasnt developed because of "business". Just because you kicked some mcdojo students ass doesnt mean sanshou sucks. I'd like to see you to go to china and fight anyone of their sanshou instructors and see if sanshou still sucks. Chances are you'll be in a coma like that guy sitichok in the last muay thai vs sanshou event. Then we'll see how much of a joke sanshou is.

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Boxiados

The guys I fought were instructors with a long experience!
I will go to China sooner or later!
I don't judge the effectivness of an art on only one combat eneded with a coma! I judge it on how frequently who practice it wins!
I am no fan of Chinese stuff but I did some and have respect for it!
You've got your religion, and I've got mine let's not argue about it!
Peace Bro!

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sherwinc

Boxiados, i think this is a very tough fighter, he has a strong built......

you know? the only problem for us Filipinos is on our height, right?????

you know? if that kind of fighter you attached also knows wingchun, he will probably be one of the dangerous kind of fighter(without gloves)

you foreighner have advantages when it comes to built, height and range.....

Note:
i just wonder why Chinese Martial Artists from America doesnt want to allow Bruce Lee to teach his KungFu to Non-Chinese people...... because of that reasons.......

do i am right??????

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Answer: A good fighter has a lot of tricks, but doesn't play games

Lesson: More Techniques learned are better than Few

Boxiados

Well thanks Sherwink! That's my picture when I was competing in Muay Thai.
I also practiced Win chung.
If I understand, you are from Filippines? Great!
One of my all favourite martial arts which I still practice is Kali/Arnis de mano, I always have two knives on me at all times, and I do have the sticks in my car! Your art is amazing and I don't understand why you never talk about it!
yeah, you are probably right on the Bruce Lee thing!
Cheers!

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Boxiados

I would like to watch some Sanchou VS Muay Thai fights, can anyone tell me if there are any tapes to buy or anywhere I could get info about it.
I tried to type on Google "Sanchou VS Muay Thai" and many diffrent other wordings but got no luck!
Thanks

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vise versa

the problems that these traditional martial artist face is that they have no experiences in the ring.

they usually spar each other using the point system, and after a point is scored, they stop the fight and then continue.

this is why they suck in the ring.

where in the ring, the ref will not stop a fight until someone is knocked or they are just hugging each other too long.

they also spend a lot of time doing forms.

i know cuase i been through it.

they havnt been trained to fight in the ring, where after you score a point, you need to follow up.

these traditional martial artist usually stop punching or kicking after a score a point. then the other guy with ring experience will go all out.

and in the ring, u use gloves, instead of open hand gloves, where a martial artist to trained his finger cant do a spear hand to the throat, or body.

--------

back in hs, i've been in a lot of arguments with those muay thai fighter.

one day, this guy set up a fight with me with someone with about the same skill level and same height.

when i sparred him, all i did was use my side kick every time he tried to come close or every time he tried to throw a thai round house.

and i got lucky when i got him in the stomach.

got the wind knocked out of him.

i saw him trying to throw a lot of fake punches and then try to follow up with a thai round house, so i just stepped backed every time he through punches.

he also tried to throw some push kick which did hit me, but i caught it and just tripped him to the ground.

the reason why i was rarley hit was that i was a little quicker then he was.

and i was taught how to keep a distance, and step to the side whenever he through something rather then trying to block it standing still.

the spar ended with a slap to his face when he tried do a flying knee. i just step to the side and pushed his knee with my elbow. and then slapped him.

i did well in this sparring match at school, but i dont if i would do the same in the ring.

at that time, he had 6 months of muay thai and i had 7 months in kenpo, ju jitsu and jeet kune do.

he had some ring experiences and i had none.

vise versa

i have 2 vcd of the China vs Thailand fight.

if anyone wants it, email me at cnaman@ureach.com

$10 shipped.

its a 7 match fight.

the last round was the best round.

Liu Hailong (CN -San Shou) VS Lukpoei Grabangkoei (Thailand - Muay Thai).

Liu Hailong landed a nice round house to the face, then followed up with some throw and tossed Lukpoei out of the ring and onto the cement. The Chinese crowd made some noise when that happend.

Liu continued to dominate and after the fight, Lukpoei was lifed out with a stetcher and sent to the hospital.

Lukpoei was bleeding heavliy in the second round.

China won (5:2)

Should of been a tied. (3:3).

All of the even or draw match went to the host. Which was China.

This match was held at the foot of Bak Wan San (White Cloud Hill) where Master Wong Fei Hong was buried, at the New Guangzhou Stadium in Canton.

(sept 23. 2001).

_Peter_

I don't understand the point of these discussions. The winner in any match dpends on the skills of the individuals involved. One could pit a seasoned thai mt fighter against a kid who'd practiced sanshou for a couple of weeks and it would technically be mt vs. sanshou, with mt obviously winning. These conversations have little to no bearing on the ability of the actual styles and it would be cool if people could stop trying to prove how much better their style is than everybody elses and let the martial arts progress without the constant conflicts that take place.

Boxiados

Great philosophy!
But think about it, would it be there any martial art if there were no conflicts and no discussions! Here each one is free to express his own opinion based on his own experiences, otherewise DISCUSSION FORUMS would be pointless!

In answer to Vise Versa, and I will use your nick name in my example! if vise versa you were the one practicing thai and your friend practicing sanchou you would be probably the one who would win, cause in this case I beleive that you are more skilled than your friend, besides that at the early stage of practice, six months is a bit early to be totally in control of a style!

And again in my expeience of Thai Boxer I haven't once met a Kung fu, Sanchou Sanda guy who could give me a hard time, and I am speaking about confrontations between masters and experienced fighters in competitions!

Peace

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