MuayThaiFighter

I have noticed that people compare shadow boxing to kata as if same.

I am here to clear it up regardless if others will have a different opinion or not.

Just remember this is nothing more then my opinion.

Kata vs. Shadow Boxing.

Katas (translation=forms) pre-arranged techniques designed to teach a person focus, balance, co-ordination, strengthen legs and upper body.

This reasoning behind kata is important for a person who wants to become a good fighter, however katas are a incorrect way of teaching due to the fact that they are pre-arranged movements.

Besides the stances, the types of punches and blocks are not very good for someone wanting to become good at fighting.

A karate ka for example does many katas yet the techniques they learn from them they would never use in sparring anyways, so why learn these forms?

Do the stances really strengthen legs ? yes they do, but what good is strong in legs if you learn to use them incorrectly.


Shadow Boxing:

Techniques made specifically for fighting. Practiced on own without partner, just as in kata.

The difference between shadow boxing and kata is that unlike katas shadow boxing moves are not forms or pre-arranged techniques.

Unlike katas, in shadow boxing we have no stances other then fighting stance we, punch, kick (if kickboxing), and block exactly the same way we can sparr.

Like kata we are able to train ourselves in focus, co-ordination, balance, upper and bottom strength etc.

Katas DO NOT work on self-defense techniques but Shadow Boxing does.

Shadow boxing is good for anyone wanting to become a good fighter in the ring or wants to be able to realistically defend themselves on street in most situations.

Katas are falsely believed to teach a person to defend against multiple attackers, when they don't even help you to defend against one person.

Simply put only way to truly learn how to fight is through proper technique, shadow boxing and sparring.

What are your guys opinion on this ?

NuffSpeed

my opinion is katas suck

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karateka_101

As you said, kata is good for balance, focus, co-ordination etc.
And also as you said, kata is not the best thing for self defense. But in karate and other martial arts that have katas or form, you are usually taught something similar to shadow boxing as well. Kata should not be compared to shadow boxing. They are two different things. As well as improving you mentally and physically, a kata can be something to work on perfecting and performing beautifully, similar to a dance.

"A karate ka for example does many katas yet the techniques they learn from them they would never use in sparring anyways, so why learn these forms?"

This is because most of the techniques taught in kata are too dangerous for any type of sparring (breaking of bones, killing of opponent, etc.), especially light contact sparring.

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"I will be happy if you understand that the essence of Martial Arts is not the strength, not the art, but that which is hidden deep within yourself."

- Grandmaster Gogen Yamaguchi

MuayThaiFighter

You make no sense,on one hand you say you agree that kata is not the best for self-defense on the other hand you say katas are too dangerous for any type of sparring. Make up your mind what do you really believe?

"This is because most of the techniques taught in kata are too dangerous for any type of sparring (breaking of bones, killing of opponent, etc.), especially light contact sparring."

Oh my God you have to be kidding me right?

How the hell can any kata be too dangerous for any type of sparring ? Don't you mean sparring would be too dangerous for any type of katas ?

Even if a person did use kata in sparring the person doing the kata would lose.

Katas supposedly teach breaking bones, killing of opponent etc. as you stated, but do they really ? Of course not. Maybe a few basic techniques in some of the katas are actually useful, but even then being able to apply it in a real situation would be rare, I personally doubt you could.

MuayThaiFighter

I agree unless you are doing it as a way to strengthen your leg muscles, practice balance, focus and co-ordination for ballet or mondern dancing.

For fighting they are completely useless.

NuffSpeed

Shadow boxing is shadow boxing, sorry, there is nothing similar, either you do or you don't. Shadow boxing incorporates everything you know, defense and attack. It isn't set movements, it's free flow, you're sparring with yourself. And to go further, "fighting" with yourself------are you really going to "refrain because it will break bones"?????

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MuayThaiFighter

Exactly,again I agree with you.

karateka_101

Strong leg muscles, good balance, focus and co-ordination are all important in fighting.

__________________
"I will be happy if you understand that the essence of Martial Arts is not the strength, not the art, but that which is hidden deep within yourself."

- Grandmaster Gogen Yamaguchi

chris davis 200

when i did Karate we did Kata for purely strngthening reasons - strengthening the Mind as much as anything.

We ALSO did heavy sparring AND shadow boxing. So i guess that Karate here has one over on the arts that just use shadow boxing and sparring.

For ALL of you that think Kata are used in self defence you are diluding yourself - Kata are there to teach the things outlined in the start of this thread.

For the reasons stated above maybe! you answered your own question.

Alot of Karate Ka honestley believe that Kata show DIRECT fighting tactics. They DONT - they use basic, over exagerated fighting movements to achieve goals that AID fighting, such as your level of self control, balance etc.

If you look at the physical techniques DIRECTLY in the context of fighting - they will not work - If you look at them for their real purpose they are highly effective.

Chupa

Both are important in there own way, it all comes down to the situation and different variables. Example. Training for the ring-Shadow boxing/Training for multiple opponents-Kata just to sum it up briefly. My opinion "I can't stand Kata's I'd rather just flow on instinct". This poll could go on forever...

MuayThaiFighter

That is one thing people are mistaken by with katas. Kata DOES NOT train you for multiple opponents regardless of what you are told. I don't care what style you do of martial arts, how often you train or how good you are when it comes to multiple opponents you can never really be ready.

There aren't too many people, whether martial artist or not, that can take on multiple opponents by themselves.

Some styles are better then others one on one,they definitely aren't styles that teach alot of katas,but no style will prepare you for several opponents at once regardless of what some may claim.

Chupa

Sorry, some kata's SIGNIFY fighting multiple opponents. Correction

brokenelbow

Some kata are very good for that, but that's painting with a very big brush. The kata of Enshin karate map directly to their fighting techniques, as do many traditional Okinawan kata. There are kata for balance, breathing, isometrics and some that just look good. The trick is to know what each kata is for.

Sure you can. Takes alot of awareness, smarts and skill. But it's a moot point if you can't hold your own against one.

Once again that's a broad brush. How do you know that kata are only for self control, balance etc?

How so? If your technique sucks and your knowlge is limited all the shadow boxing in the world will mean nothing. Some kata contain excellent techniques if you know what your looking at, most don't. And you're right kata, like shadow boxing, does not teach self defense which is a much larger field of study than being a ring or point fighter. In regards to Self defense fighting is a last ditch effort to save your ass.

NuffSpeed

I'm not trying to feud, but I think that the warmups and such, that you might do when training in combative arts is alot more beneficial then kata's or forms. I disagree with what you say about kata's giving Karate a "one up" on other systems that "just" use sparring and shadow boxing. There is so many ways to train, and while forms are graceful and all that, I really don't see them being useful for combat.

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brokenelbow

Kata in and of themselves aren't, they're just a training tool. Can I use what's in kata? Sure, but I have to setup the technique with additional techniques, but that shouldn't surprise anybody here. You have to drill and you have to spar if you're going to make anything work.

Also there's ring fighting and there's combat, sadly the Alex Gong incident shows the difference very clearly.