timing

cokebottle · 10-24-2003, 06:28 AM

i've been told that i have to work on my timing wrt my punching and kicking combos.
obviously practice has a big part to do with this.
but i am still unsure what i should be thinking abt when i am practicing...
any help?

Nit · 10-24-2003, 08:28 AM

I have similar problems, always to earger to please.

Some information that I find helpful is below, although I would welcome everyones comments if I am talking rubbish:

Remember to relax

You need to keep an eye on the opponent and not just the striking area (telegraphs your shot)...
Remember your legs are not attached to your arms and you can move while striking.

Remember to relax

Your limbs should be supple and relaxed right up to the moment of impact, just before you should use as many muscles in your body as possible to tense into the strike. And immediately relax.

Remember to relax

The above will help you in the countering or changing of technique when the opponent throws a spanner in the works (like moving, attacking or just being plain good for example).

Remember to relax

Don't focus on the technique you are trying on your opponent, try to let what you know flow out into the fight...

Remember to relax

Control the fight by moving into positions that the opponent is uncomfortable in (e.g. if they have a weak left side, keep walking to your right and cover your left). It takes about 2-3 secs for visual information to fully process in your head and translate into movement (I'm talking every single detail here, not just what you are focusing on and in fine detail... I have a feeling I'm going to have to backup that statement) so change your position at least this often - don't show a weak point or target without moving it spacially at least this often.

Remember to relax

Watch what is going on and don't be in a rush to counter punch punch slam bang ow owow, speed is not always the factor - just going the shortest route, and speed does not mean energy you can go fast without the need to use every single muscle straining against time and space in a 'Million Dollar Man' stlyee (GGGGGRRrrraaaaaaaaaaaaa.........) if you tense your muscles when you move you can slow yourself down as you are then stiff and heavy.

Remember to relax

I've never done this myself, but I have been told that those speedball things help because its fast but rythmic...

darrianation · 10-24-2003, 12:07 PM

Timing is something that needs to be developed. Some people pick it up fast and it comes natural to them. Others it takes time and a lot of work. I had this problem too. I worked and worked on it and I finally got it.

Things that may help at least helped me. You can do partner drills to help. Some I really like but definitely not limited to.

The parry drill: My partner will throw a jab at me I’ll parry it and throw a jab back and he’ll parry jab. We will go back and forth developing a smooth rhythm as we get better we speed it up while maintaining good rhythm. Then we will do the same thing with him throwing a jab right cross I’ll parry both and return in kind he’ll do the same and repeat. Then add left hook, then add right uppercut and etc. The main thing is to develop rhythm.

Focus mitt drills: Have the holder try to move the mitt away as soon as you try to punch to make you miss (this will develop speed too). Next drill you wait until the holder moves the mitt then you punch and try to hit the mitt before he is able to move it too far out of reach.

Sparring and lots of it! This is the only true way to learn timing! Slow down Watch what your partner is doing get a nice comfortable rhythm going. Don’t worry about being hit or scored on just work on your stuff. Remember evade (foot work or slip), parry, if those fail block then always counter. Learn to recognize openings in your partner’s defense then as you get better start taking advantage of those openings. If your partner is going to fast/hard ask him to slow it down. As you get better then you can start speeding it up. Learn from your mistakes and try new things to add to your bag of tricks.

These are only a few things there are a lot more out there. I’m sure others will come forth with some good ideas. Remember timing, rhythm, and recognizing weakness and openings then take advantage. It’s all a process so be patient and relax and sooner or later you’ll get there.

darrianation · 10-24-2003, 03:34 PM

Here's a couple more.

A slip bag (double end bag) is good for working on timing and aim. You have to hit at the right time and place to make move straight back and forward.

A moving heavy bag is also good when working with kicks. Also you have a guy on the opposite side of the bag kicking as well so you have to time your kicks just right so the bag doesn’t go all crazy.

Speed bag: You have to hit it straight and just as it begins to move away from you, so this works timing and speed as well.

cokebottle · 10-26-2003, 05:53 AM

i did try sparring the other day. but the guys i was sparring with seem a bit crap. (not that i'm any good. b/c i suck). but if i could land more punches on them than them on me. (i was pulling them as well). then they aren't really that good. but it was fun...really makes u think abt what u r doing...

darrianation · 10-26-2003, 04:35 PM

Just keep up the sparring as much as you can and in 6 months or so you'll be saying damn this is easy.

Nit · 10-27-2003, 07:47 AM

Darrination, whats a slip bag (double end bag)? I've not come across those before?

darrianation · 10-27-2003, 09:27 AM

A double end bag AKA a slip bag is a round bag (ball) that is connected to the floor and the ceiling with a cord similar to a bungee cord. When you hit it, it should go straight back but if you hit it wrong it can go in any direction. Boxers use it to practice slipping, as you hit it goes away from you and if it’s set at head level (it can be set at stomach level too) and as it snaps back towards you imagine it’s a punch coming at you and you slip and counter.

This works focus, aim, slipping and timing. So you get a lot of bang for your buck

Khun Kao · 10-27-2003, 02:37 PM

Actually, a "SLIP BAG" and a "DOUBLE-END BAG" are two entirely different pieces of equipment.

A Double-End Bag is an inflated ball with bungee cords attached to the top and bottom, anchored to ceiling and floor.

http://www.ringside.com/store/prodin...tem=2&mitem=11

A Slip Bag is a small weighted bag similar to a Speed Bag, that is suspended from the ceiling and swung. It is also referred to as a Maize Ball

http://www.ringside.com/store/prodin...m=87&mitem=134

Khun Kao

darrianation · 10-27-2003, 04:20 PM

In all the gyms I have worked out in we called the double end bag a slip bag. I guess its terminology from place to place to place, gym to gym. However you are right there is a difference.

But for the discussion here (I'll use the correct terminology) I am talking about the double end bag.

darrianation · 10-27-2003, 06:58 PM

PS: the slip bag as described by Khun Kao is good for building timing too.

Khun Kao · 10-28-2003, 09:12 AM

The Slip Bag/Maize Ball is pretty cool, but the Double-End Ball is a BEAST!!!!!!!!!

KKC

darrianation · 10-31-2003, 12:18 PM

Ok I think that becoming a good sparer (is that a word?) there are three main phases. There is a pre phase this is someone with no training.

Phase 1: Learning to recognize openings and weaknesses in opponent/partners defense. However in this phase you may not be able to take full advantage of this opportunities or openings.

Phase 2: You can recognize the opening/weaknesses and are able to take advantage of these on a relatively consistent bases.

Phase 3: You can consistently take advantage of the openings/weaknesses, but now your techniques and combinations flow easily from technique to technique, and combo to combo in a smooth rhythmic fashion.

For some people they may have the knack for it and pick it up pretty fast. For others like the most of us it comes more slowly after doing lots of training, partner drills, and sparring. You should be at Phase three if you are a black belt or when you start competing seriously in armature boxing, KB, MT, etc.

The only way to obtain phase three is to practice, practice, practice, spar, spar, spar. A good coach/instructor goes a long way too.

10-24-2003, 06:28 AM	#1 (permalink)
cokebottle Novice Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 11 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	timing i've been told that i have to work on my timing wrt my punching and kicking combos. obviously practice has a big part to do with this. but i am still unsure what i should be thinking abt when i am practicing... any help?

10-24-2003, 08:28 AM	#2 (permalink)
Nit Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: On the heads of clean people Posts: 239 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have similar problems, always to earger to please. Some information that I find helpful is below, although I would welcome everyones comments if I am talking rubbish: Remember to relax You need to keep an eye on the opponent and not just the striking area (telegraphs your shot)... Remember your legs are not attached to your arms and you can move while striking. Remember to relax Your limbs should be supple and relaxed right up to the moment of impact, just before you should use as many muscles in your body as possible to tense into the strike. And immediately relax. Remember to relax The above will help you in the countering or changing of technique when the opponent throws a spanner in the works (like moving, attacking or just being plain good for example). Remember to relax Don't focus on the technique you are trying on your opponent, try to let what you know flow out into the fight... Remember to relax Control the fight by moving into positions that the opponent is uncomfortable in (e.g. if they have a weak left side, keep walking to your right and cover your left). It takes about 2-3 secs for visual information to fully process in your head and translate into movement (I'm talking every single detail here, not just what you are focusing on and in fine detail... I have a feeling I'm going to have to backup that statement) so change your position at least this often - don't show a weak point or target without moving it spacially at least this often. Remember to relax Watch what is going on and don't be in a rush to counter punch punch slam bang ow owow, speed is not always the factor - just going the shortest route, and speed does not mean energy you can go fast without the need to use every single muscle straining against time and space in a 'Million Dollar Man' stlyee (GGGGGRRrrraaaaaaaaaaaaa.........) if you tense your muscles when you move you can slow yourself down as you are then stiff and heavy. Remember to relax I've never done this myself, but I have been told that those speedball things help because its fast but rythmic... __________________ Nit

10-24-2003, 12:07 PM	#3 (permalink)
darrianation Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,061 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Timing is something that needs to be developed. Some people pick it up fast and it comes natural to them. Others it takes time and a lot of work. I had this problem too. I worked and worked on it and I finally got it. Things that may help at least helped me. You can do partner drills to help. Some I really like but definitely not limited to. The parry drill: My partner will throw a jab at me I’ll parry it and throw a jab back and he’ll parry jab. We will go back and forth developing a smooth rhythm as we get better we speed it up while maintaining good rhythm. Then we will do the same thing with him throwing a jab right cross I’ll parry both and return in kind he’ll do the same and repeat. Then add left hook, then add right uppercut and etc. The main thing is to develop rhythm. Focus mitt drills: Have the holder try to move the mitt away as soon as you try to punch to make you miss (this will develop speed too). Next drill you wait until the holder moves the mitt then you punch and try to hit the mitt before he is able to move it too far out of reach. Sparring and lots of it! This is the only true way to learn timing! Slow down Watch what your partner is doing get a nice comfortable rhythm going. Don’t worry about being hit or scored on just work on your stuff. Remember evade (foot work or slip), parry, if those fail block then always counter. Learn to recognize openings in your partner’s defense then as you get better start taking advantage of those openings. If your partner is going to fast/hard ask him to slow it down. As you get better then you can start speeding it up. Learn from your mistakes and try new things to add to your bag of tricks. These are only a few things there are a lot more out there. I’m sure others will come forth with some good ideas. Remember timing, rhythm, and recognizing weakness and openings then take advantage. It’s all a process so be patient and relax and sooner or later you’ll get there. __________________ A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money. -G. Gordon Liddy A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. – George Bernard Shaw NOBAMA!

10-24-2003, 03:34 PM	#4 (permalink)
darrianation Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,061 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here's a couple more. A slip bag (double end bag) is good for working on timing and aim. You have to hit at the right time and place to make move straight back and forward. A moving heavy bag is also good when working with kicks. Also you have a guy on the opposite side of the bag kicking as well so you have to time your kicks just right so the bag doesn’t go all crazy. Speed bag: You have to hit it straight and just as it begins to move away from you, so this works timing and speed as well. __________________ A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money. -G. Gordon Liddy A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. – George Bernard Shaw NOBAMA!

10-26-2003, 04:35 PM	#6 (permalink)
darrianation Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,061 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Just keep up the sparring as much as you can and in 6 months or so you'll be saying damn this is easy. __________________ A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money. -G. Gordon Liddy A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. – George Bernard Shaw NOBAMA!

10-26-2003, 05:53 AM	#5 (permalink)
cokebottle Novice Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 11 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	i did try sparring the other day. but the guys i was sparring with seem a bit crap. (not that i'm any good. b/c i suck). but if i could land more punches on them than them on me. (i was pulling them as well). then they aren't really that good. but it was fun...really makes u think abt what u r doing...

10-27-2003, 07:47 AM	#7 (permalink)
Nit Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: On the heads of clean people Posts: 239 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Darrination, whats a slip bag (double end bag)? I've not come across those before? __________________ Nit

10-27-2003, 09:27 AM	#8 (permalink)
darrianation Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,061 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	A double end bag AKA a slip bag is a round bag (ball) that is connected to the floor and the ceiling with a cord similar to a bungee cord. When you hit it, it should go straight back but if you hit it wrong it can go in any direction. Boxers use it to practice slipping, as you hit it goes away from you and if it’s set at head level (it can be set at stomach level too) and as it snaps back towards you imagine it’s a punch coming at you and you slip and counter. This works focus, aim, slipping and timing. So you get a lot of bang for your buck __________________ A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money. -G. Gordon Liddy A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. – George Bernard Shaw NOBAMA!

10-27-2003, 02:37 PM	#9 (permalink)
Khun Kao Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 823 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Actually, a "SLIP BAG" and a "DOUBLE-END BAG" are two entirely different pieces of equipment. A Double-End Bag is an inflated ball with bungee cords attached to the top and bottom, anchored to ceiling and floor. http://www.ringside.com/store/prodin...tem=2&mitem=11 A Slip Bag is a small weighted bag similar to a Speed Bag, that is suspended from the ceiling and swung. It is also referred to as a Maize Ball http://www.ringside.com/store/prodin...m=87&mitem=134 Khun Kao __________________ Kru Brooks C. Miller USMTA Director of DC, MD, and VA http://khunkao.com/

10-27-2003, 04:20 PM	#10 (permalink)
darrianation Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,061 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	In all the gyms I have worked out in we called the double end bag a slip bag. I guess its terminology from place to place to place, gym to gym. However you are right there is a difference. But for the discussion here (I'll use the correct terminology) I am talking about the double end bag. __________________ A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money. -G. Gordon Liddy A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. – George Bernard Shaw NOBAMA!

10-27-2003, 06:58 PM	#11 (permalink)
darrianation Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,061 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	PS: the slip bag as described by Khun Kao is good for building timing too. __________________ A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money. -G. Gordon Liddy A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. – George Bernard Shaw NOBAMA!

10-28-2003, 09:12 AM	#12 (permalink)
Khun Kao Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 823 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	The Slip Bag/Maize Ball is pretty cool, but the Double-End Ball is a BEAST!!!!!!!!! KKC __________________ Kru Brooks C. Miller USMTA Director of DC, MD, and VA http://khunkao.com/

10-31-2003, 12:18 PM	#13 (permalink)
darrianation Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,061 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ok I think that becoming a good sparer (is that a word?) there are three main phases. There is a pre phase this is someone with no training. Phase 1: Learning to recognize openings and weaknesses in opponent/partners defense. However in this phase you may not be able to take full advantage of this opportunities or openings. Phase 2: You can recognize the opening/weaknesses and are able to take advantage of these on a relatively consistent bases. Phase 3: You can consistently take advantage of the openings/weaknesses, but now your techniques and combinations flow easily from technique to technique, and combo to combo in a smooth rhythmic fashion. For some people they may have the knack for it and pick it up pretty fast. For others like the most of us it comes more slowly after doing lots of training, partner drills, and sparring. You should be at Phase three if you are a black belt or when you start competing seriously in armature boxing, KB, MT, etc. The only way to obtain phase three is to practice, practice, practice, spar, spar, spar. A good coach/instructor goes a long way too. __________________ A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money. -G. Gordon Liddy A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. – George Bernard Shaw NOBAMA!

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