Thread: advantage over grapplers

Originally Posted by pUke

But to answer your question KOTF, grappling defense, especially in BJJ and wrestling, is to hold on to your opponent until he gets tired of taking shots at you.

oh brother...........................

Originally Posted by jubaji

You really seem to like guessing don't you, punk?

Have Ju read the "new" forum rules (yet)?

Originally Posted by EmptyneSs

i dont think anyone ever joined a bjj club with the intent on using it against armed people. the only people who seem to think grappling is to be used agaisnt armed people are you and uke. i mean, i dont see any grapplers saying shit like that.

......

Uh huh.... It's all in HOW YOU MARKET YOUR SPORT.

To quote the so called "Grand Master" of "Brazilian" Jiu jitsu (JUJUTSU)

"If someone points a gun at you, of course, you will be scared. But jiu-jutsu gives me the equivalent of a bullet proof shield. It protects me from head to toe, plus it gives me the ability to take a gun away."


Helio Gracie. via Doug Jeffrey. (From the April '05 issue of GRAPPLING magazine)


Yeah... it's like THAT!

Originally Posted by EmptyneSs

i dont think anyone ever joined a bjj club with the intent on using it against armed people. the only people who seem to think grappling is to be used agaisnt armed people are you and uke. i mean, i dont see any grapplers saying shit like that.

Oh really?

Originally Posted by GracieAcademy

Whatever your Self-Defense needs may be the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy is your solution.

They go further to state:

Originally Posted by GracieAcademy

Our Self-Defense techniques are combat proven and street-tested.

http://www.gracieacademy.com/

Now, in the 15 years that the Gracies have had real exposure in America, they've never once demonstrated any jujitsu self defense stand up techniques in the ring aside from a front guillotine choke. Isn't the ring BJJ/MMA's proving ground? Well they've proven that their throws are terrible and they can't use jujitsu on their feet. Have you actually seen their idea of weapons defense, if you'd even call it that?

With that said, every Gracie, and every BJJ fighter go to the ground on purpose. They're the one's shooting in for the clinch, not the other way around. They're the one's executing the takedowns and/or sacrifice throws. Now, MMA fighters may tend to want to stand up and fight. Nogueira, who now trains with olympic boxing hopefuls, isn't using BJJ or wrestling when he stands up. Its all boxing. Remember, we are speaking about grappling, not boxing. Watch any NHB event including the Abu Dhabi and 99% of the victories are on the ground. And the Abu Dhabi showcases the vanguard of grappling.

So by stating "Whatever your Self-Defense needs may be the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy is your solution", and with 99% of wrestling and BJJ techniques winning on the ground, the Gracies are teaching weapons self defense that WILL end up on the ground. If you want to argue that the Gracies are has been's, Nogueira has won 18 of his 28 victories on his back. An additional seven of his decisions have been won by using ground grappling, and only three TKO's(striking wins). That's pretty telling. And of course the Gracies can say that their techniques are street tested. They've fought in the street before. That's a given. But only when surrounded by an entourage of family and friends. Just because there are 30 people at a fight doesn't mean a thing if 28 of them are making sure its one on one and no weapons are produced.

And how could we forget:

Originally Posted by SamuraiGuy on 9/21/2005

A man who is by no means a "master" of BJJ, (although he's really fricking good) can literally beat me before I know whats happening.... and by beat me, I mean choking the life out of me or braking my arms.

Sure it takes a few seconds for him to remove the blood from my brain... but in those seconds am I going to be clearly thinking, ok , reach into pocket, withdraw knife, stab this guy.

Ill prolly be thinking, OW MY FUCKING THROAT WHAT THE **** OW

Seems like he clearly believes that BJJ will work against a knife attack. You said you didn't see it, so I thought I'd throw you that little bone. Have you seen it now?

But when you wrote:

Originally Posted by EmptyneSs

with that being said, grappling does indeed have self defense value. ill give some examples.

it can help you escape bad positions forced on you by aggressors. like if someone put you in a headlock, or sat on your chest, or just plain tried to physically overpower you, grappling can help you defend yourself and escape these inferior positions with technique.

knowing grappling can also help you avoid going to the ground. it can also help you get to your feet fast if you do find yourself on the ground or tangled up with another person.

... you basically were doing your best parrot impersonation because that's what I've been saying in dozens of posts since arriving at this site.

Grapple with that.

Originally Posted by Shard

......

It doesn't matter if you strike or grapple. You're going to be in trouble vs. a knife. No matter what.

THANK YOU!!

Originally Posted by Shard

It doesn't matter if you strike or grapple. You're going to be in trouble vs. a knife. No matter what.

I agree knife attacks being trouble. I can't speak for some others here, but I don't pretend that knife disarms are easy or always clean. No one is invincible and no one implied that except for Helio Gracie as was stated above. But weapon disarms, specifically knife disarms are very possible and taught in modern SD/UC systems all the time. Anyone who says they aren't shouldn't honestly shop around.

I was always to taught to avoid a confrontation because you never know who is armed, and because of that its better to assume that everyone is. I'm not against running. But if its got to be, I won't be unprepared because my training lacked that dimension.

Now as far as EmptyneSs goes: You can seethe in denial if you like. But every BJJ player employs the same tactics that I wrote. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE FORCED TO CROSSTRAIN NOWADAYS. The whole "upright posturing with arms outstretched while slowly plodding forward and throwing low kicks to feel out the guy and then shoot in" strategy is dead. No one who wants to win does it anymore. Grappling, specifically BJJ and wrestling NEVER aim to keep a fight standing. Maybe you believe that you're going to start suplexing opponents when it hits the fan, but those of us who live on Earth have gravity to contend with. And once you begin discussing strikes (punches, kicks, knees elbows)it's no longer grappling. I guess that fact escaped you.

No one brought up the idea that grappling is useless but you, emptyness. We've discussed that it is not practical for certain situations, but no one other than you ever cast grappling in the light as being useless. Somehow in your confusion, you've convinced yourself that I feel that grappling is useless, and you felt the need to champion the cause of defending an argument that didn't exist any place but in your mind. Even though I've told you again and again that I don't feel that grappling is useless, you continue to pursue that argument. You're like the guy from 50 First Dates who can't hold a thought for more than 10 seconds. You are seriously making a lot of people laugh right now. And they're not laughing with you.

Grappling is NOT useless! Get a book. Write it down. Make a video tape to remind yourself. But don't come around me with that tired ass nonsense anymore.

Originally Posted by EmptyneSs

you didnt just say this? it i know i wasnt me.



saying shit like this makes it real easy to see that you dont even know anything about grappling, yet you talk as if you are some kind of authority on it and feel the need to lecture others.

Where did it say grappling was useless???? I'm sure somehow you see it, but the rest of us can't seem to finf that passage.