Originally Posted by Mike Brewer

knifethrower,
I'm going to suggest something pretty far out, so try and stay with me. Defend.net is by and large a reality based and MMA site. Based on the traffic that the MMA forums get compared to the CMA forums, and the level of expertise (there are not many CMA people here, after all), what do you expect?

BoarSpear is pretty knowledgable about such things (or at least, he claims to be), but he tends to post things that draw criticism, and then, instead of debating his points, he throws fits and hurls insults. Hell, I can't even get him to attempt an explanation of soft and hard arts, so how do you expect to get any positive contributions from him on the detail work of CMA?

I'd like to see our CMA forum grow, but it's not an area of interest for me. I'd post some Cung Le stuff and other similar material, but I'd probably get hammered for interjecting sport MA into the noble and untouchable CMA forum. Fact is, the hostility toward anyone from outside CMAs is likely the biggest contributor to its current state of affairs. People with outside opinions have been driven away, and that doesn't leave a very large following among a JKD and MMA crowd. Perhaps you should look to the people who made that happen, and maybe shift the focus of that forum enough so that people who don't do CMA would feel comfortable asking questions and discussing topics again.

Uh dude we were hardly the first people to get tired of the trolling in the CMA forums...we didnt create the hostile environment here Jubaji did. ANY thread in the CMA forums that gets any discussion gets flooded with trolling...You already said you don't read 'em....maybe you ought to try before you blame me for their state.

I also PRACTICE Non Chinese martial arts and have stated this MANY times. Or did the fact that JAPANESE Jujutsu, and Combat Judo and the FMA's and Silat aren't CMA's escape you? Its shit like this that kills any discussion because all my time is spent refuting your lies...Show me a FMA thread or JJJ thread I trolled in without contributing and I'll show you 500 posts where jubaji did the same thing in the CMA forums.

Originally Posted by IPON

Mike I have been trying to help explain these concepts as well, but I certainly don't appreciate being called ignorant when you are the one that does not understand. I think part of the problem is that you are trying to qualify these terms as "good or bad” when UKE and I have not qualified them, just explained the differences. Internal and external styles have their positive and negatives like anything else. Boxing is a sport so is wrestling and it can obviously have application outside the ring/mat but "IF" you had to put them in a category they are external styles which does not equal bad or wrong. I have been trying to present these concepts (which books are written) very briefly so you can understand the overall distinctions and differences. Boar is 100% correct you truly cannot understand the internal styles without being involved (and sometime even then people don’t get it). It is not simply semantics as Medico stated the distinctions are there for a reason.

Again, let’s get back. I made the distinction only to help the original poster out with these questions. I don’t expect someone to without internal training to be able to fully grasp the concepts (that would be silly). But instead of acknowledging that you just don’t know you call me ignorant. In summation: I understand boxing and I understand ithe distinction between nternal and external styles and soft/hard techniques. YOU understand Boxing and maybe some external styles. And you call me ignorant. Ironic you say, yes I think we agree.

As an aside I have to say that I have been posting on the board for a few years. I would like to think people know my character, I try not to insult and have done so rarely. I will be the first to acknowledge and error or misconception on my part. But you speak of the bias that Uke toward “hard styles”, against MMA or just something that is different from your concept. You can’t agree to disagree? If I say Boxing is an external style you say it can’t be. If I told you there was a cure for cancer and had the proof for it. You would say “no impossible” where you are not involved in medical research to have that opinion. So who is really bias here? Thai Bri has very rigid opinions on certain topics but I could always end a conversation with we agree to disagree. This is not "I'MRIGHTALWAYS.NET", but I feel it is Mike’s way or no way, eventhough you dsay you want to learn - complete hypocrisy. Why is that? I do have respect for things that you have posted. I don’t care that you don’t like or agree with anything I post (its just discussion we can agree to disagree) but don’t respond if you don’t understand or better yet respond to understand.

So I will let Uke finish the explanations. But I would appreciate the same respect that I give you.

As usual, Mike you ignore EXCELLENT facts that are presented to you once it becomes clear that you CANNOT address them. IPON is probably THEE least argumentative poster on these boards, yet you totally disregarded the message that he sent you. IPON is not even attacking you, but more putting it out there that your behavior and actions are becoming more and more telling about your sideways stance on everything.

Boar is right, Mike. And I'm not just saying this to bust your balls. Its not so much that what I wrote wasn't completely comprehensive and deep enough for you to have an understanding by now. It’s that you'll continue to argue until my replies include what you think should be included.

I've had people from this forum already personally email and pm me telling me that what I've written here and on the MMA topic was not only true and logical, but it helped them reach a better understanding about what it is they want to do.

Now, I view you as a fairly intelligent guy, Mike. If some of those people got everything I conveyed, I'm sure you did or could have if you read to learn something instead of reading in the spirit of furthering a debate to support what you do. It’s the same thing that happened on the MMA topic. I didn't stop posting there because anyone wrote anything that might have countered any one of my points. I stopped because I realized and was told that after I had written the last couple of posts, the information was there and only those who chose to learn and consider would be able to see it, while those who chose to argue and belittle weren't even here to learn or share.

This is no jab at you Mike, but even when you admittedly don't know what you're talking about you attempt to come of as an authority. As often as you claim that I'm biased against MMA, I at least have reasoning and solid facts and examples to prove and back up what I write. Even now you write suppositions towards subject matter that I am explaining to you. You're not questioning anything I wrote because I kept everything simple and explained each principle thoroughly. It’s just that you want what you do and believe in to fit the criteria that it doesn't fit. And it’s apparent.

And in all fairness, it wasn't Boar that said your definition was a bullshitting job, Mike. It was me. Its still there to read. And I still feel that way and you confirmed it from the beginning by writing that you were working off of your own definition as a disclaimer.

A lot of people on this forum are working of their own definitions, even though there are proven methods, concepts and principles that are/were taught worldwide by men who are/were legends. I write this to say that even though there is quality information, research and curriculum that exist today due to the life long dedication and sacrifice of men who are pioneers in their fields, people on this forum seem to choose to work off of their own limited OPINONS instead of taking from the wealth of knowledge that came before them from those pioneers.

There are reasons for making the distinction between sport and reality, hard and soft, internal and external. The sad part is that people, including you Mike Brewer, prefer to blur the lines and wish to spread the word that it’s okay to do so.

Why do you think that modern combatives came from men like Applegate, Brown and Fairbairn and not men like Chuck Norris, Bill Wallace and Joe Louis?

Why do you think that no boxing of any kind is the chosen art of any elite military or police force in the world?

Why do you think that and continue to preach that MMA is as close to reality as a man can get when you know and have admitted on this forum that reality combat is based on weapons, and THERE ARE full contact weapons tournaments out there where people lose teeth, break bones and receive multiple contusions? That's real contact, real adrenaline dump, and less room to perform risky maneuvers without paying for it.

Why is it necessary for you to lump everything you believe into the definition of what others practice, even including the things that you clearly and admittedly don't even know about? Here you are, beefing with Boarspear about a topic that he's infinitely more knowledgeable about than you are, and its not because he's done anything but point one fact out: All you're doing is pumping me for explanations so that you can liken boxing and MMA to those qualities later, which would then be shot down by anyone who knew what they were talking about.

This isn't meant to be rude or a ball buster, but this is meant to tell the truth. And you should respect it as long as its coming from a place of truth. You don't have to accept it, but respect that it’s coming from that place.

Originally Posted by Boarspear

Its shit like this that kills any discussion because all my time is spent refuting your lies

God knows how true that is. How many times have we had to write posts that started with "I never wrote that" or "Show me where I ever said that". Most of the time spent posting here is wasted defending what we've already clearly written, but others purposely misconstrue it to seem like they have something of merit to say.

Jubaji, the resident heavy bag who doesn't mind and understands that his function here is to take verbal and humorous beatings, just wrote more than a one liner! He admits he's an asshole, but is too retarded to write about anything to do with martial arts on a martial arts forum! Where's the content? Where's the experience jubaji's gained from all those matches he's had at the Andy Kaufman School of Combat Wrestling?

Inquiring minds wanna know.

But until then, the only thing anyone believes that a retard like jubaji has in common with a wrestler is that they both wear headgear with a chinstrap. Jubaji's came with the optional drool cup.

I always find it amusing to see the topic changing from one thing, to diss fights, except when it is my post

I'm not frustrated Mike. I wouldn't write something that I didn't know about. I gave you an a solid intro and explanation to the subject matter. Its just that you don't understand. Everyone else here seemed to.

I think you're just going to have to work off what was given and hope for the best. Most teachers wouldn't have even given you as much as I did without you actively training with them.