Mixed Martial Arts, Thaiboxing, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Combat Submission Wrestling, Jeet Kune Do, Women's Self-Defense, Boxing and Filipino Martial Arts
tbh i wanted to shoot up a school and the teacher was armed id just smack the across the head with something and take their gun.
The position of teaching leaves them too open to having the thing taken away by force.
Besides you need to deal with the problem of kids wanting to do this kind of thing in the first place.
Why is it only in the states. What makes the USA the place where kids feel the need to do this kind of thing. Address the cause.
How did you get to the stage where teachers carrying guns is up for debate?
Which other countries in the world do we know of where the teachers NEED to carry guns?
There are no second chances.
“Anyone can give up, it's the easiest thing in the world to do. But to hold it together when everyone else would understand if you fell apart, that's true strength.”
Originally Posted by Tom Yum
I would trust trained security professionals. Trained by whom? There are better people to ask on this forum.
All this assumes that armed teachers will be a deterrent, perhaps deranged students (or groups of them) will decide that shooting it out with the teachers is an even more awesome way to go out.
Beside the fact that marksmanship and firearm proficiency are some of the most perishable skills of all. If you doubt it, take a trip to a PD's quarterly qualifications at any range and you'll see what I mean.
A CCW also doesn't say anything about an individual's judgment. I wouldn't trust a teacher to use corporal punishment with my kid, so I am definitely not going to trust them to make shoot/no shoot decisions in a crowded classroom. Sorry, some classroom training and a range qualification does not create a qualified tactical shooter.
In the event that the teacher needed to fire his weapon at an armed opponent, the most likely outcome would be that he would miss most if not all of his shots, which would likely hit the students thus increasing casualties.
School teachers are not known for their marksmanship. Hell, most cops are not known for their (good) marksmanship!! How many videos have we seen of point blank gunfights between cops and robbers where all the police do is spray bullets and hit nothing? Now imagine children as the backstop for all those rounds.
TTE, I'm actually against arming teachers myself, for the exact reasons you've mentioned.
Maybe I did not explicitly state that I am for armed security, be it third party security - not teachers.
Arming teachers could work in rural areas, where most adults are familiar with pistols, rifles etc, but in largely populated areas most teachers do not have the mindset to use said weapons. I'm not saying there aren't teachers that can and might be great shooters, like our own lovely treelizard, but the vast majority of teachers seem to have a liberal/pacifist bend or have more fun watching sex & the city then putting the time to go to a range and trying to get that sharpshooter level, then getting some urban (classroom) type training, where they'd have to asses a situation, move, shoot the perpetrator and communicate with law enforcement.
Again, I am for having armed security, allbeit 3rd party, but how they would be organized and trained? I'm guessing they would be regular police officers with riot control experience and more time doing tactical pistol/rifle work against hostage crises.
They could also be screened contractors, perhaps agents like those whom would work for Blackwater, Triple Canopy or Dyncorp - but whom are trained for the challenge of school grounds.
Am I starting to sound like Mike B? Not my intention - I do miss his presence on the boards and wish he'd come back - but if I do sound like him, it probably has more to do with other things.
Roger that.
I think the private sector (PMC's, NOT security) would be the only place you'd find people I'd trust with the job at a school my kids attended.
Waiting on a school shooting would be like standing around with a bucket of water to throw on a fire if lightning strikes.
It's hard to stay "on" daily when nothings happening, they're either going to relax and thus make mistakes and get the respect of Barney Fife, or they're going to become busy bodies who get into everything and come off like Nazi's to the kids.
Qualified "Shooters" are rarely also diplomats, never forget that. It's why SWAT teams have negotiators to deal with things other than shooting people.
If people are "on" and ready then they're not going to mesh well with typical excitable children. If they're not "on" then the point is moot anyway and they aren't going to be the people who ought to have the job in the first place.
The damage done to every kid who attends a school patrolled by armed "peace keepers" is going to be massive. Do the guards only interfere in gunfights and bomb threats? What about, fist fights, fights with sticks, books, a knife, etc or 3 jocks jacking up a nerd? Fire drills? Aggressive driving in the school parking lot? Drugs? Will there be armed guards stationed in the showers and locker rooms? What about the class rooms? Patrolling the halls? The Bathrooms? The football field? The parking lot? Cafeteria? Principals office? You'll need cameras all those places (at minimum) to keep an eye out so you know where to send your quick reaction force.
What type of uniform and armor will be worn? Sidearms or slung machine guns or both? Remember now, some of the school shootings involved multiple kids sniping from a distance, that requires counter sniping teams...is this a proactive/visible team or are they only going into action after the shooting starts? These require different skill sets and the budget is going to be shocking.
HSLD people who come to work with their game face on in a school where their job is to protect kids from internal threats are going to produce an UGLY/hostile environment. Barney Fifes will simply have their weapons stolen from them by some gang banger, neither is an acceptable environment to educate our next generation.
Last edited by TTEscrima; 11-12-2008 at 06:03 PM.
I just caught this, WTF?? I certainly don't think you sound like Mike.
I know Boar has talked to you and Brewer both on the phone, so, no question you're two different people.
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