USArmyBJJ

Hi!

Just wondering why everyone here is interested in RBSD? That is - why are you concerned enough about self-defense that you're willing to spend money and time to learn it?

I, personally, have no real interest in learning self-defense. I live a healthy lifestyle and have very little fear of needing to be in a life or death situation where I am unarmed. Obviously, I'm in the Army - but that's a whole 'nother animal! For my everyday life, I practice in "sport" martial arts because I love sport and competition.

So, what are your reasons for training in RBSD?

---

Tom Yum

I think its good to diversify your training and imo RBSD-type training has a bag of tricks and techniques that are good to know.

Sports arts are great for keeping your training real-time, building your fighting attributes, keeping you tenacious and works pretty well for self-defense, but it isn't the be all end all of SD.

From what I've seen (on video) MCMAP still utilizes moves from aikido, judo and karate - non-sports moves. CQD utilizes moves from CMA.

---

USArmyBJJ

I might have accidentally misspoke. I didn't want to make this another MMA vs. RBSD discussion. I was more interested in your motivation for learning self-defense in general. Why did you feel that you need to learn to defend yourself? What scenarios are you worried about, or do you feel you need to be able to handle, etc? That's what I meant to ask.

---

TTEscrima

Nice post TY.

__________________
My work is done, what else is there to say.

http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/m...tml#post328507

---

Garland

My guess...
The world may very well be a violent place, but with that being said, it isn't necessarily so for everyone. Everybody either thinks they can fight until they get hit. I imagine most people who are attracted to the martial arts have had a wakeup call, or are insecure (sorry guys) about other things (like carrying a weapon to feel powerful...which may seem neurotic but is instead sort of the norm for my generation at the very least) that get projected into training martial arts. The remaining minority have morbid interests or have straight up predispositions towards violence. Or any combination of the above. Martial artists are either geeks/hobbyists, sportsmen/jocks, or are drawn to RBSD/Combatives/Martial Arts/Combat Sports by less than positive intentions (which may be positively influenced, as in becoming well not correlated, by involvement in martial arts).

I think people are drawn to the martial arts and rbsd for a number of reasons, and stay for a plethora of others. Perhaps another thing to consider is why some people who suffer dire circumstances that lead others to learn (such as being victims of violent crime such as robberies, muggings and sexual assaults) completely dismiss any type of self defense aside from carrying a firearm impractical and irrelevant.

I think a further area of interest is who among this small group could actually use lethal force unarmed or armed with a blade or impact weapon against another human being...I have been reading a really good book I'm sure a number of others here have read or heard of by a military psychologist covering, among other things, the hypothesis of an innate and almost a priori tendency present in the overwhelming majority of human beings against killing their own kind...with even stronger pressures against killing at close range with a knife or bludgeon...and especially empty hands.

I don't remember why I initially started to train...but whatever it was, I was hooked on many of the aspects of the arts even aside from technique...I enjoyed the espirit de corps between fighters and sparring partners, I enjoyed the cultures and ideas behind the training, the histories, I enjoy the movements and making them my own, I enjoy the fitness, and I would be lying if I said I didn't enjoy the confidence they endow me with.

That being said...in all reality, it's entirely possible, nay, probable that I may go my entire life without needing to DEFEND myself. I don't buy into the survivialist-esque paranoia of many people that start into this line of stuff...but there is always a slight chance somebody may contemplate hurting me or a loved one...and more than likely I can avoid such an incident by being aware of my surroundings and having excellent communication skills and EMPATHY instead of HUBRIS and PRIDE, or feelings of something to prove. If an individual persists or the situation warrants extreme and immediate action...I may be forced to make a difficult and horrible decision. But the same could be said for anyone else in the same spot. The only difference is that I will have conditioned responses and the knowledge to do so minimizing the risk to myself, my loved ones, and depending on the situation, potentially even minimizing the damage to the assailant. Anyone can kill another human being, anyone has the physical capacity to do so, as is. It takes a great deal of knowledge and ability to be able to disable somebody and give them their live at the same time.

Coming from the helping professions (psych and medicine) I truly don't see another person as the enemy. I see death as the enemy and actions that need to be halted to preserve and promote life and wellbeing. In the worst possible case scenario, that means somebody losing their life so that I don't forfeit mine and my role in caring for my loved ones and my charges.

Real self defense...for me consists of staying happy and healthy. And all things martial (with the exception of martial law ) play into that for me.

Sorry about the rant.

__________________
homo homini lupus

---

jubaji

Maybe it wouldn't be so terrible to admit that nothing is.

__________________
Optional signature you may use to appear at bottom of your posts.

---

USArmyBJJ

Not a rant at all - it was exactly what I was looking for. I just wanted an explanation from people as to why they are concerned enough about their personal safety to spend money and time learning to fight. I think your explanation was spot-on and I appreciate it.

I'm also interested in hearing from the people who think that all, most, or even a substantial minority of fights end up with multiple fighters, or weapons, or people literally trying to kill you. Has that really been your experience? Most fights I've seen (I'll admit to never having been in a streetfight and not particularly caring to ever be in one) involve two guys who are trying to hurt one another, but not really trying to kill each other.

In other words, how important is it really to learn to fight unarmed?

---

Tant01

I'm fond of pointing out that "SELF-DEFENSE" is a legal term to justify the use of force.

Generally speaking any violent action against another person is (simple) assault. It's only self defense if you meet certain specific (legal) requirements.

__________________

"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur."

James Paterson

---

Garland

The thing is...in our society and in this day and age...they usually don't. People fight to posture and show off, mostly when they are intoxicated, or to try and bully people to get what they want...and very few are willing to take it that extra inch...and most of the time when it does, it probably started off as some drunk dinks doing what drunken dinks do and then escalated with somebody pulling, or god forbid, using a weapon or using the social faccilitation of the group to create a mob killing. The vast majority of fights you see will be with co-inhabitants and/or people intoxicated...and most of the time everyone will play a mutually combative role, including verbally instigating an assault.

That being said...that doesn't diminish the sheer horror of life-or-death incidents you see on the news or in shows like the "I survived" series...(plug)

I'd say learning how to fight unarmed is probably as important as somebody from the desert learning how to swim...sure it's good to know if you need it...and your life may depend on it if you fall off of a boat or into a well, or whatever...but it's highly unlikely you'll ever need it. Then again...if you want to try out for the swim team or practice scuba, become a lifeguard or a waterpolo coach, or whatever other analogy will come close to what I'm trying to say...it behooves you to learn to swim.

__________________
homo homini lupus

---

Tom Yum

This is true.

---

DdayFighter

I'm a knowledge addict. I'm always trying to learn more, so self defense is just another area of knowledge I'm learning

---

kingoftheforest

That should be in the red letters in the Bible.

__________________



Chuck Norris destroyed the periodic table.

Because he only recognizes the element of surprise.


You're the man , I'm the King.

---

Birmingham

i think it comes down to exercise, of the mind and the body, more than a fear of a specific type of confrontation, but the fact that it can diffuse a potentially heated scenario gives me faith in learning about martial arts rather than, let's say, rocket science

__________________
How is the moonwalk ideal for martial arts?

---

PandaMan

Lots of very good points.

Tant01 - is correct. I have to keep reminding myself the Law perspective. Especially since I'm aiming to be a LEO.

Garland- I disagree with your illustration of self defense as learning how to swim in the desert. Because we all can see that it's completely useless skill to have in that environment / situation. Nor would you or can you learn if you don't know it already.
I would say it'd be more along the lines of the knowledge of CPR, Heimlich Maneuver, application of First Aid? Just in general or anywhere, it may not be needed most of the time, but there may be a crucial time where it can mean life and death for someone else or for you.
I agree though, that those who go into the field... in your illustration, lifeguards, coast guard, water polo etc... it's an obvious skill to have.


To the original question... because I jumped into Kung Fu during my high school years, almost everything I learned was self defense oriented. It just felt natural to learn. When I was a lot younger, I didn't really have the self confidence or self esteem / courage needed to stand up against oppressors and bullies. Kinda the victim mentality... it seemed no matter what I did, people were just out to get me.

But one of the things I have noticed looking at my training overall is a huge difference in attitude. Standing up for myself and anyone else that gets oppressed, not really afraid of confrontations if they arise.

I was at work one day and my co-worker started to bad mouth me and threaten me because he heard a rumor or something. I still don't know if he was joking or not. But I smiled and asked "Okay... so do you want to fight me? Is that it?" (mind you he was like 5'8, maybe 150 lbs... I'm 6' and 270 lbs)His reply was "Just watch your back man!" Nothing happened and it was over.

A lot of my own friends think just because I know x,y,z style or a,b,c technique I'm a tough guy that goes picking fights, when it's really the opposite. I don't have to fight or prove anything, mostly I don't care. Most things aren't worth fighting for, if you really think about it.

I used to fight a lot in high school, rebel without a cause kinda thing with just a lot of energy and anger. But even though we were teens, it's really easy to get carried away... stomping on the guy's face, breaking bones, kicking him repeatedly in the nuts.


So...what keeps me learning SD?
1) I love to learn.
2) The more I know than the other guy, keeps me safe and alive!
3) You'd be quite surprised when you get backed into a corner and you bust a few showy moves / stances...(helps if you're Asian, or just a scary looking guy) how some people will be like "forget this" and walk away. Good to know if they ever call your bluff.
4) It's really practical in general
5) Going to be a LEO, so technically it's my field and I should be well versed in it.
6) I've diffused more confrontations / potential fights than actually been in them, because of my knowledge in SD.
7) No one really messes with me anymore.

---

KirkhamsEbooks.

If I'm going to workout anyway I may as well do something to protect the shape I'm trying to stay in.

I'm a husband and father. My family's safety is my responsibility

I don't want to depend on other people for my family's or my safety

When I was 14 first starting I knew there were people out there tougher than me and I wanted to lower the odds of getting beat in a fight

Rick

__________________
Step by Step Learning Martial Arts Internal Energy Strikes by Kirkham

Self-Defense and Fear Medley of Products and Information for Martial Artists and Non-Martial Artists
Self_Defense_Tips-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

---