jubaji

Which is most of the time a pretty good idea, but when exactly does it get to that level? Sure, if someone is trying to kill you and you have the means to kill them that seems like a reasonable decision. But what about situations that are not necessarily life or death?

Now I know some yahoo is gonna pipe in with the "I don't go to bad places" or "I use awareness" bromides, but if you are in a bad situation but not necessarily one where it is clear you are in a life and death struggle, do you say fuckit, and start cutting? When does it go to that level?

Uncle Earl is getting drunk and belligerent at Cousin Ophelia's wedding; do you empty his entrails onto the faux-wood dance floor while the in-laws do the Hokey-Pokey?

Charlie the ex HS football star is balding and pumping gas in the same town he never left and is pissed about it all on Saturday night in the bar; do you shoot him in the head while the locals sip their beers?

Biff and Todd got rejected in their bid for Phi Phi Phi because their sweater-vests weren't the right color and after stealing their stock-broker parents' coke and downing 8 wine coolers they run into you at the ATM where they've gone to take out another grand. You know they are gonna start shit; do you kill Biff and Todd?

When its life or death, the choice is obvious. But what about when its probably not, but still likely to be a violent situation? Where's the line? Its an important line.

Now, if its life or death and you aren't ready for that, that's a problem. But when its probably not life or death but you make it so, you've definately got a problem. Obviously you want to err on the side of keeping your ass alive, but its not likely to be completely clear all the time. Some A-holes will read this and say it is and make some uselessly categorical comments, but I'd like to hear what the real people think.

Just something to think about.

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Garland

your examples are very...colorful.

I think that people do all sorts of stupid shit for any number of reason. If you are armed, it doesn't make you more rational. Anyone, regardless of what they are carrying on them, can make a poor, perhaps even life shattering decision. I know that I've been intoxicated and drawn a knife on people before- it was a special situation where people were trying to **** one of my female friends who had passed out- the thing is...the knife was one option, but it wasn't a very rational or good option, and certainly not the best option.

If you aren't thinking straight- i.e. you are under the influence, or you are emotionally strained for whatever reason and you aren't thinking in a very calm and collected and relaxed manner...you run the chance of doing something you might regret.

Some people might make these life altering decisions without some sort of impairment...such as somebody shattering one of their principles. Say that you go to a party with a girl and you go to the restroom...when you come back out, some guy is standing almost on her toes, puffing his chest out and screaming at her... at that point I'd palm a bottle and say something, and if he took a swing at me or her...I would bust his fucking face open. This is an example of somebody making a POOR choice with a weapon based on principle.

Shit happens...and people have limits that vascilate over the course of days, minutes, hours...people lose it, or overreact...or try to rationalize something that they know they shouldn't do, but WANT to. Why is there road rage? Why are there fights of any sort... People push limits with those who are armed, and for whatever reason...have a hair trigger at that ill fated moment.


Then there is truly premeditated use of a weapon...I'm sure that ANYONE here could get there under the right circumstances.

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homo homini lupus

jubaji

So, how does all that inform your decision to walk around all the time armed, or not?

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Garland

Just because you are emotionally unstable at a given moment doesn't mean that you won't encounter a situation where you would need to defend yourself with a weapon. Just because you are shitfaced doesn't mean that you won't either...

in fact...chances are you are more likely to encounter things like that when you are in a shitty mindset.

Self control. If you recognise you have enough self control to carry a weapon, then you should also recognise when it's best NOT to carry one.

I mean, there are always tragic and horrible scenarios where you might be carrying one and then- poof- something fucking horrible happens. Say that you are carrying a gun, and you have a rough day, come home and see your best friend fucking your wife. It would be HARD not to do something stupid.

I know you mentioned that someone might make some assinine statement about being aware, I think it's much more prudent to try to be self aware so that IF you notice your blood begin to boil, or if you get fucked over in a real bad way, that you can take a breather and reassess your situation and the consequences of your action in the long term.

I don't know, man...that's the best advice I have on the subject.

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homo homini lupus

Garland

If you come across a situation where you feel you are a danger to yourself or others...take a drive to a mental health facility and take a vacation, or call your shrink or the suicide hotline #...everybody should have a shrink.

Maybe just go camping or something...take some you time...go to a movie, relax. Call a friend that you can trust and just hide away until you can piece your shit together.

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homo homini lupus

jubaji

Your comments are so damn stupid that they make me want to kill someone! That's it, I'm going camping goddammit!

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Garland

s'mores can cure the soul.

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homo homini lupus

jubaji

S'mores?! Fucking s'mores?! That's it, I'm off to a movie.

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Garland

23 sucks
300 is a pro-Iraqi war propaganda piece
Hannibal Rising is not out yet...
I suggest renting this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1xXERFt_Zg

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homo homini lupus

jubaji

I ain't into them artsy films.

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Garland

I don't think fatty cream pies IV is out yet either...too bad.

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Tant01

A weapon is just another tool. In my case I carry every day but don't expect to need it for SD. It's a last resort, it's very short and mostly for other cutting tasks.

In the event that Bubba decides he wants to be stupid... "he fell down" It was an "accident" or I'm not there at all...

Call 911 for a civil standby and detain him for arrest. You can charge him with anything form disturbing the peace to public intoxication...

Zip ties or duct tape will keep him nice and safe.

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"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur."

James Paterson

jubaji

And what if Bubba is getting the better of you? He probably won't kill you but he's whuppin' you, and that knife is in your pocket...

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The_Judo_Jibboo

this is a really good, thought provoking topic jubaji.

fights are unpredictable. on the street there is always the possibility of it ending very badly for the loser; freak falls knocking your head off of a brick wall, etc. you certainly don't want to be unconscious, at Bubba's mercy if he probably won't kill you.

the way i see it is, if someone initiates a physical altercation with you, then, whether they acknowledge it or not, they are submitting to the facts that it is your responsibility to protect yourself, that you will naturally value your own life above theirs, and that they are forcing you to make possibly life and death decisions in a state of uncertainty where it is more reasonable to react with excessive violence than with too little violence.

That being said, it's still a very fuzzy subject with so many variables. I can tell you when it gets alot clearer for me though; when loved ones come into the picture. if i'm walking a street at night with my sister or my girlfriend and a guy so much as roughly grabs my shirt, the knife is coming out and the fight won't be over until i'm at least sure that he can't get up to give chase for a good while. Maybe it was over the top, but tough sh*t. he just made me choose between the safety of someone i love and rolling the dice that some thug may beat me up but has some other moral scruples that will stop him short of beating, murdering or raping a woman.

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So the real message here is that in a SD situation you should always take off your trousers...
-jubaji

jubaji

So just for the sake of argument, some guy (maybe a drunk kid, or a homeless guy with mental issues for example) roughly grabs your shirt. You're going to pull your knife right away?


Now, I don't like the whole *whiny voice* "what if you get in trouble?" thing that people say all the time, but the fact is that there may very well be a bunch of witnesses who now just saw you stop and pull a knife on some guy. Better yet, he falls on you, or moves the wrong way or you lose your footing and now you've cut the guy in front of God and man and 20 people are gonna swear that they saw him just trying to stop and ask you a question or some such thing and you "tried to kill him". That might complicate your evening a hell of a lot more than a less dramatic response would have. I know it won't do you a lot of good if you are interested in gradual escalation and he's not, but...

Just sayin,' just putting it out there for consideration.

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