Sagacious Lu

I'd like to discuss something I've heard from a lot of combatives advocates. The idea that in a self-defense situation you always want to assume that your opponent is armed makes a lot of sense to me. If your life is potentially on the line you certainly don't want to leave yourself vulnerable to a weapon even if you don't see it- not if you can help it anyway. Personally I think the fact that in the real world your opponent might surprise you with deadly force (a gun, knife or some other weapon) is one of the best reasons to avoid fights that I can think of. What I'd like to know from the combatives camp is what does this mean in terms of how you train? How do you put this into practice? How does this influence the way you handle a situation?

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Hardball

I look for large and baggy clothes. It's almost a sure bet that the person is armed. Other than that I rely on verbal de escalation. If that doesn't work, My mind set is not to get sucker punched. Most people don't realize that a high percentage of fatal knife attacks include some type of punching or stomping. There is a saying that the thugs use in relation to a weapon---"You gotta get to it".. I turn the tide on them, they gotta get to their weapon before I get to them.

Professionals employ tactics like boot knives and ankle holsters. I don't worry about them because they are mostly defensive minded.

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darrianation

I think if you assume anything in a fight you should only assume three things.

1. Your opponent is intent, determined, and capable of hurting you.
2. He is armed even if you do not see a weapon.
3. He has friends waiting to jump in and give you a boot party even if you don’t see them.

Hardball

I wouldn't want to cloud my mind with unreasonable worries it will only slow my reaction time.

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The Way of the Warrior is Practice. Daily practice, accumulate practice minute by minute, hour by hour and day by day. {Book of 5 Rings} Mike Brewers 2008 Sit up challenge 37,000/100,000 running balance.(Crunches) Kicks 6,300/100,000

Sagacious Lu

Okay, for the purposes of this thread lets skip deescalation; I think it's always better to talk your way out of trouble if possible but I'm curious about how this effects your response after it's already happened. Let's assume that you are attacked by one unarmed guy- as in he hauls off and tries to punch you. How does the assumption that he's armed and has friends influence your reaction? He's unarmed so if you escalate it and use a weapon you're likely to be arrested; you can't maim or kill someone just becasue you're not sure whether they're armed. At the same time you're trying to keep from getting stabbed by a knife that may or may not be there.

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darrianation

I think you shouldn’t have assumptions in the first place.

I think de-escalation in the criminal setting is a myth. Folks wait to long and get hit, shot, stabbed, or ambushed from the opposite direction while they are babbling on.

If you are looking for a “mental trigger” the switch that says it’s time to GO try this on for size, keep your trigger light and anyone who doesn’t back off after being told to “Back the **** up!” It’s GO time.

darrianation

Lu,

The number one murder scenario in America is the bar fight and they most always start off as a fist fight (usually after a build up period first). No one is unarmed unless you have xray vision and if they truly are unarmed they can still pick up a weapon from the environment at anytime.

How does that affect my response? I start as high up on the FORCE scale as I have the capability of doing at the time. If he is dumb enough to cross my line (enter my personal space with hostile intent) all I can say he’s dumb enough for the ICU. If all he can do is think of me as a piece of inhuman meat why should I show him any other consideration? All I can say is that sometimes stupid people pay for their stupidity.

darrianation

I think the true definition of mindset is the guy who has his hand on his gun who says to himself “If that mother fucker takes one step closer I am going to draw and shoot him to the ground”.

You can substitute a knife, stick, hammer, shovel, or whatever for the gun and it doesn’t change the definition any.

shaolin-warrior

All valid points, but where do you draw the line in the sand? When you have only seconds to realize the the true nature of the threat. How do you pick or decide what is a credible threat? Would you fight for your religious beliefs? What if someone was using profane language that your girlfriend or small child was offended by, would you politely ask the offender to stop? What if he then mouthed off, would you pursue this altercation to the point of violence? Would you fight over a possession? What if someone took 20 bucks from you, would you pursue this to the point of violence? What are your core values, or do they not even come into play when you feel threatened. Do you act on gut feeling or instinct? Or are you so secure in your abilities that you feel you have time to instantly comprehend the situation and take control of it?
I know that I've posed a lot of questions, but I'm just trying to get a glimpse of how other people might react the same situation, or what there mindset might be. Because I have a pretty good Idea that the street thug who intends to pick a fight has no moral compass. And if he has none, why should I hold myself to a higher moral ground than Him? If I do, am I weak?
These are my demons, help me to feed them.

treelizard

The obvious for me if there are multiple assailants with weapons is to stay off the ground if at all possible and to try to figure out an exit. Keep moving, keep your hands up, etc. There are specific ways you would move or not move assuming the other person has a weapon. Sayoc Kali is absolutely brilliant at this, at really thinking of every possible situation that could occur and coming up with appropriate responses...everything from which side of your arm you are using to block to positioning to a million other things... It is one of the few combat arts where you can really tell they have really thought out all the possibilities inside and out and made modifications (etc.) accordingly based on those, and there are probably no technical questions you could ask that they wouldn't have an answer for.

The other thing that comes to mind was when I first started training MMA one of the guys I was training with who knows our coach said "Holy shit, anybody could know this and (our coach) looks like a pretty unassuming guy I probably wouldn't have had second thoughts about starting a fight with!" So you carry yourself different when you keep where things could end up in mind. De-escalation is one thing but not being in those situations in the first place is another and barring that I always immediately take off when I start seeing strangers in groups and I'm hanging out say in a parking lot or something.

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darrianation

When 3 out of 4 voices in my head tell me to go for it.

Uke

Very well said.

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darrianation

Some of this stuff moves out of the realm of self-defense. This getting into the realm of bif the playground bully picking on the karate kid.

THe line in the sand is crossed when soemone refuses to comply with my commands, "Back off", "what's in your hands", etc.

There are basically two ways of doing this,

1. You recognize the threat and ACT
2. You don’t recognize the threat and you react

Without getting into all the mechanics of it (maybe when I have more time I’ll address it) suffice it to say it has to do a lot with prior experiences. For instance if you live in a rough neighborhood in NYC you’ll be more adept at recognizing certain patterns or impending situations better than someone living in rural Vermont. Kids that grow up in or around violence such as in war zones as in Iraq, Israel, or Dufur, etc, are generally better than adults and are much better than the guy in NYC or LA, etc, at recognizing impending violence.

Intuition plays a huge roll and intuition is sharpened and honed by past experience. As you transverse through the environment your senses are inundated by bits of data and your brain is constantly putting the pieces together much like a puzzle. Many of these processes are being run at the subconscious level. As the brain matches up current patterns to chunked information from the past an impression is formed. Sometimes this is very subtle and all you get is a bad feeling…something is out of sorts, not right, etc, while other times it will smack you in face with warning bells as a specific threat. Learn to listen to that little voice. *Fortunately this can be developed.

Can you spot the tactically minded among us out in public? The guy with his back to the wall facing the door where he is in prime position to survey the area including anyone who enters who is wearing big black boots, a tactical pistol belt, and a pair of sunglasses is a mind splash that can be seen from space. Can you spot the line of 2 or 3 guys lined up along a wall in perfect formation to spring an ambush, or the guy who always wears long shirt tails even in hot whether, etc, etc?

Obviously certain areas of town are more dangerous than others, gangs, drug deals going down on the corners, etc. And certain locations like parking garages, low lit areas, areas of low pedestrian traffic, etc. I have heard these referred too as “fringe areas” and I think for our purposes here that term is as good of as any.

Do you ever notice actor’s wearing hoodies in warm weather, coats that droop down on one side, the guy who is always touching/fiddling with his belt line, etc, etc, ad nauseam. Do you watch people’s hands, belt lines, and pockets as they approach for any telltale signs of weapons? What about their behavior maybe nervous, distant, or angry?

In any fringe area or if the subject (for whatever the reason) sets your radar off suspect all those who approach you. Use verbal challenge strategies “Sorry I can help you” and keep moving or “back the **** up” (use your fence). Do not let these folks into your personal space defend it aggressively.

Inevitably someone will ask “But what about a crowded area like a rock concert, a NFL football game, or a crowded bar.” Obviously there are many environments that are difficult to negotiate and some are more difficult than others just remember watch for groups of younger males, baiting, those in a heightened emotional states, those who are paying attention to you especially if that attention is hostile in nature that is your threat.

There are two things you need to ask yourself, “is this a threat (environment or person), and is that threat directed at me? If the answer is yes, then you are in an impending violent situation…it’s time to act.

Not every problem has a solution, you can’t do much about the sniper who takes you out from the forth story window of an office building form 5 blocks away. Or the actor who hides in the bushes concealed blasting you as you walk by, all you can do is be aware and keep a gap between you and any obstacles that someone can hide behind or shadows/blind spots someone can hide in, etc. In any ambush situation you need to have default such the IAD (immediate action drill) that is meant to keep you alive and on your feet long enough to get your offensive going.

Just keep in mind the guy who initiates the contact has an advantage and the guy who is willing to escalate the violence further and faster than the other guy will most likely be the winner.

darrianation

Back to mindset: When it comes to combat neither size nor skill is the deciding factor. The winner will be the guy who takes immediate ownership between the moments of threat recognition and tactical superiority. I have said this before but when the difference between winning and loosing, living and dieing is measured in seconds, it is the guy who is willing to die for those precious seconds who is going to be the guy who wins that fight.

Tant01

The foundation of the security mindset is built on paranoia and cynicism. You always assume something will happen, and you don’t believe in anything.



Become paranoid. Trust no one. Think like a bad guy.


Written by rmogull

http://securosis.com/2006/11/29/the-security-mindset/

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"In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur."

James Paterson