gauol

I'm looking to learn a martial art, Jujitsu and/or Judo both appeal to me. However I was wondering how useful these styles are in the real world? My intention is not to be starting anything, I simply wish the confidence that I could defend myself if needed.

I had originally wanted to go with Krav Maga but there are very few gyms in NH and are too far away. I also liked the philosophy of Akido but again no gyms nearby.

I welcome any suggestions and input.

Many thanks

DickHardman

learn how to strike first in my opinion, as you can use boxing or muay thai for simple self defense sooner than you will be able to use jiu jitsu and judo, as the learning curve for judo and jiu jitsu is a bit higher for self defense applications. then move on to grappling when you have a good base in some standup striking.

gauol

Yeah the general impression that I got was that BJJ or Judo were most optimize for the ground fight. It would seem to me that in most self-defense scenarios striking and the ability deflect a strike would be of most importance. Mind you I'm 28 and never been in a fight in my life so my impressions are not based on experience.

jubaji

Learn grappling first. Striking is easier to start later in life than grappling.

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Michael Wright

Just an important point I'd like to make to you, martial arts and self-defence are not as intrinsically linked as many beginners would like to believe. The physical response from any art, or no art, makes up only a fraction of the puzzle.

The psychology of confrontation is where most people succeed or fail, before any grappling or striking has taken place. Fear, adrenaline, verbal control, confidence, deception, the balls to make your move, and deal with the consequences.

Make sure that whatever art you choose, these areas are covered in the training, otherwise it leaves a big gap in what I believe you are looking for.

Ghost

would you say that arts/systems that use full contact sparring prepare people better mentally than those that dont for real combat?

Michael Wright

In my opinion I think it takes a blend of factors.

I come across a lot of beginners who think that if they just learn the "what", i.e. the technique, then that’s self-defence. I believe its more about the why, where, how, who, when. I'm not a massive fan of endless scenario training i.e. putting on little plays at every class with people always shouting abuse at each other etc - a little of that goes a long way. I think its more about a teacher who can offer real life experience of how you are going to feel, the emotions, how best to control situations etc. This is of course in addition to good, solid, physical training. Purely cerebral martial artists tend to be the first ones to hit the deck.

But to answer your question (sorry Ghost) I do believe that full contact training is certainly an advantage. Physically, you aren't pretending to fight - you are fighting. Boxing is a great example, your key goal is to knock the other guy out, that’s what you train for. It translates well to the street where hands tend to be king, and distance and intent are crucial before the fight hits the ground. Mentally, full contact sparring of whatever nature can accustom the student to fear, adrenaline, confrontation, aggression etc. I have personally found it to be an advantage, however it has to be taught in a progression.

Ghost

yeah i agree with that 100% mate, very good analysis.

gauol

I did some looking and that when I start my new job in 3 weeks I will actually be in range (within 10-20 minutes) of a Muay Thia and Krav Maga studio. I Will investigate these studios after I start my job. Unfortunately boxing will be too far away.

Thanks for all the help and if you have any other suggestions I still be interested in hearing.

darrianation

Michael, if you would care to comment, there seams to be two schools of thought one being sparring should be used conservatively because it can develop tag-like tendencies in the fighter i.e. give and take or symetrical fighting.

Whereas a purely combative system is an all or nothing event, where in the ideal situation one combatant is doing all the fighting and the other is standing there getting hit or trying to cover, asymetrical. I think that is why many in the combatives community prefer to work on Bobs or against opponents wearing bullet man suits downplaying dojo/ring types of sparring.

Personally I think I am somewhere in the middle of the two preferring limited sparring drills that develop a specific skill and not just a free-for-all.

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Hardball

Take Japanese Jujitsu and learn it all. Striking, locking, throwing, weapons and grappling.

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Michael Wright

Always happy to comment darrianation, and I think your post asks very good questions.

From a JKD/PFS background many a year has been spent hammering a fully padded guy in a motorbike helmet. This allows for your ultimate goal to materialise, i.e. to completely overwhelm the opponent as opposed to, as you rightly say, some form of tagging match.

On the other hand, the benefit I have found in the Boxing and Thai Boxing arena is that you are tested against a fully resisting, aggressive, skilfull opponent. You learn to appreciate that things don't always go your way, you learn how you respond when you get hit and hurt, and for me most importantly you learn to keep going when you are losing - a very important mindset for real life altercations.

So, to answer your question: experience both, appreciate both, and overcome both.

darrianation

Good answer.

I've gone back and forth on this issue for a long time. I have finally come up with there are important lessons to learn form both.

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Mike Brewer

I looked over the people posting in this thread and decided not to read their responses. Chances are, they have all offered up some great suggestions, and I know that many of them are great at what they do, so their advice is worth heeding. However, I didn't want my post to be one of those add-nothing, "I agree!" posts, so I'm sorry if this treads some already walked ground.

I personally feel that grappling arts will give you more than enough of a foundation to build on, especially if you lead the kind of life that keeps you out of fights. Grappling tends to be easier to learn at the foundation level (that's why the Army makes it the very first level of their combatives training), and you can train it more closely to the way you'll really apply it earlier in your training career. That said, it is easier to teach a striker how to grapple than it is to teach a grappler how to strike. Getting hit is a unique thing. It takes a little experience to really understand your capacity for pain, as well as to understand the difference between pain and damage. Pain is something that can distract, but it won't (or shouldn't) stop you. Damage causes you to have to accomodate and change your game. Strikers tend to understand this at a deeper level than do grapplers. That is certainly not true for all people or in all situations, but it's been a pretty accurate stereotype in my experience.

If your choices are between Japanese Jiujutsu and Judo, I'd personally lean toward Judo. Now, before everyone attacks me for that and points out that Jiujutsu was designed for combat and Judo was designed for sport - I know. But we are talking about a 28 year-old man who has never had to fight in his life and will probably never need to because he is intelligent and sharp-minded enough to stay out of trouble. He has a near three-decade track record of keeping himself safe, and that's likely to continue so long as his lifestyle doesn't change dramatically. The reason I suggest Judo is expressly because of the emphasis on competition. The competitive edge you'll find in a dojo full of athletes is going to be helpful, as opposed to the kind of attitudes you find in gyms populated with "streetfighters." A competitior is likely to understand the limitations of what he does. He's not going to try to make Judo the most effective streetfighting method around, and he won't try to make it fit every self-defense situation either. He'll teach Judo. He'll acknowledge that Judo has rules. He'll acknowledge that Judo is a sport. And he probably won't care that it doesn't teach ways to deal with five attackers or how to locate snipers in hedgerows. For that reason, you're likely to learn a narrower scope of tools under a competitive and athletic format that pushes you to get fit and make the tools work against other fit people who don't want to let you throw them. That's always a good place from which to build.

Once you feel you've gotten the hang of Judo, or you've learned enough basics to feel relatively comfortable, I'd find a boxing gym and start learning how to punch straight. again, I recommend boxing because it offers the same sportive aspects of Judo, the same competitive edge, the same honesty of purpose (most boxers will see themselves as athletes before they see themselves as "fighters," and they don't get hung up in the hinky nonsense that martial artists do about whose lieage is best or what belt someone wears - unless it's a title belt, of course), and the fact that you'll be working with a narrow field of tools. You won't have to perfect an entire curriculum of sets and drills. You'll just need to make four or five punches work, along with the footwork and evasiveness that goes with them. Again, simple, easy, and most of all - proven under competitive conditions against another fit and prepared opponent that's ready for each and every thing you know how to do.

Kickboxing is also a great way to go, but it has a lot more tools than boxing, and for a beginner, it's harder to learn. I feel it's best to learn to kickbox after learning to box, especially if your foundation is in grappling. Boxing will give you much better footwork, and will teach you to be more compact. Then, kickboxing will be easier for you to understand.

Now again, before everyone accuses me of losing my mind, I am recommending sportive martial arts because they offer you something you've never experienced before in your life - fighting resistance. Moreover, they offer it in a way that's been refined and trained as the entire purpose of the pursuits. Boxers climb in the ring with gloves on and hit each other. Therefore, they know how to make training for that as beneficial and safe as it can be while allowing you to experience the real feeling of a boxing match. Ditto judo and kickboxing. If you've never fought for real, you're not going to know what it feels like to get hit, to be choked, or even to feel the preliminary stress and fear of the pre-fight signals. By competing, you'll come to understand that in a way that's past all theories. If, after all that, you still feel you need to focus on real-world self-protection, the best thing to do (in my opinion) is to take up Filipino balde arts, handgunning, and something like Vunak's JKD.

DickHardman

deflecting a strike is great, but keep in mind grappling comes into play quite often as well. however, i say striking is better to be learned first only because of the fact that you are most likely going to be able to use use striking skills sooner than you could grappling if you are a total beginner. cause even after the first lesson in boxing, your punching technique should have improved way more than what it was before. grappling however, for some beginners, it can take much preparation and time before you gain enough skill to be effective and consistent. i mean, if you are training in judo, you are going to have to spend a good deal of time just learning breakfalls/ukemi before you even learn throws or grappling. boxing will get you right down to things you can use immediately, like punching better, covering up and deflecting blows, etc... judo and jiu jitsu have TONS to offer and are totally worth training in, however, learn some simple striking first so you can have something to defend yourself with as soon as possible.