eXcessiveForce

there is a good chance that a new opportunity I am taking will require I travel in some unsavory neighborhoods. And by that I mean traveling in the #1 city for violent crime in the country.

The problem is, I will be wearing Khaki pants, and polo shirts. Additionally, it is very important that people do not know I am armed.

So I'm seeking opinions on handguns suitable for this. If I were wearing suits this would be easier. But that's not the case.

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eXcessiveFORCE.

If you must use force, make it excessive.

darrianation

There are a whole bunch of right answers here so this is just one of many to consider.

I really like the Glock family because the Glock is so simple a cave man can do it…”Point gun in the direction of the threat, pull trigger, gun goes BOOM!”

No worrying over safeties, decoking levers, double action, etc. I carry the Glock 23 a .40 cal. midsize frame, very concealable. The Glock 19 is virtually the same gun only chambered for the 9mm, both are good choices.

I also really like the hicap 15rd mags...when the BG is out of ammo or reloading you are still shooting.

I carry in the appendix carry between the hip point (forward of the hip point) and midline with an inside the waistband holster (IWB). But you need to conceder your clothing options. It is difficult to properly conceal a firearm with your shirt tail tucked into the waistband without an outer covering such as a coat or sweater or something that will cover it. If you keep your polo un-tucked it won’t be a problem. When you decide to carry concealed your clothing choice always plays a factor for proper concealment.

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In hills, as well as in villages and cities, hazards and predators find those who walk backwards.- Ezekiel Sanchez

darrianation

Here is a pic:

Attached Images

 

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In hills, as well as in villages and cities, hazards and predators find those who walk backwards.- Ezekiel Sanchez

KickNit

Is it a Glock or Geico? lol

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Mike Brewer

For the money, I prefer a Springfield XD. Equally simple, and based on recent tests, even more reliable. All that for about 1/3 less money. I have carried it in .40 caliber for a few years, and I have never had any issues. it's supremely accurate, and extraordinarily dependable. It's also a polymer gun, so it's as light as the Glock, but it has a less pronounced grip angle, so it feels more like every other pistol you're likely to shoot. There's nothing wrong with Glocks, mind you, but the Springfield is a newer design, and has fixed a lot of the gripes people have had about the Glock. They just finished duplicating the famed Glock torture test with the Springfield XD, with the exception that they did everything Glock did times ten. The Springfield passed without a snag. My normal daily carry is a Sig-Sauer P226 in .40 caliber, though. I have worn it under almost any kind of attire you can wear, including sweats, and I find that it doesn't "print" to a point anyone would notice in a casual situation. of course, with a full-frame gun, anyone who knows what they're looking for will likely figure things out. They're usually not the ones you have to worry about, though.

However, if you're in situations where you're likely to be "made" carrying anything but the slimmest firearms, there are two I carry above all others when a suit and tie are the order of the day. One is a Walther PPK in .380. It's a mouse caliber, I know. But it's so concealable that no one is ever going to notice it, even in thin suit pants with no jacket. Loaded with Glaser blue-tips or Cor-Bon +P ammo, it's enough to deal with a threat at the kind of close-ranges where most real-world gunfights happen. The other is a Smith and Wesson Airlight hammerless in .357. I like the stopping power, and the fact that it is almost unnoticeable, both in its footprint and in its weight. It really is air light. Since it has no external moving parts - no slide, and no hammer - it can be fired all five times from inside a suit or coat pocket (from experience, it will give you powder burns if you do this). However, it only gives me five chances. Of course, I figure my tactics will adjust for such a weapon, and I train very differently for carrying such tools. Drills are for much closer ranges, anticipating sneaky draws and lots of bodily contact rather than the kind of drawing and positioning/moving at longer ranges. I train with a lot of distractions, off-hand punching and deflecting, and odd-angle firing from just a few feet. If such a tool needs to come into play, I want it to be a total surprise to the bad guy. It will not be a gunfight. It will be a shooting. And if I do it right, the first time anyone sees the gun will be sometime after the second or third shot, and I'll be putting distance and obstacles between me and the "threat." Smaller guns are, in my own humble opinion, more for allowing you to escape than for stopping multiple threats. They'll stop an attacker, to be sure. But more, they allow for a covered, strategic retreat.

Basically, anything you carry from .380 on up will work well for you, assuming you train realistically for the situation.

darrianation

I love my S&W J-frame .38spl. It is a great concealable weapon but I consider it a back-up primarily because of the 5 round capacity. I also really like the Glock26 (baby Glock). I think people under estimate them saying “They are to hard to shoot accurately" that's BS they are very accurate.

The XDs are a good choice, it’s a matter of preference but whatever you get or decide to use practice a lot with it and get to know it backwards and forwards and that is the most important factor.

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In hills, as well as in villages and cities, hazards and predators find those who walk backwards.- Ezekiel Sanchez

Hot_Wings

One more vote for the Walther PPK in .380. I also carry this pistol for concealed carry, sometimes in a belly band. The Walther (and the Bersa if you like that better) can be concealed in all kinds of manners. I have even rigged my cooler to have a concealed compartment in it for the PPK.

The thing that most people don’t think of much in carrying a gun is the need for a lot of training with the firearm. Just having a gun helps you feel secure, that is for sure. But most people that I know make the mistake of letting this feeling of superior security hamper their efforts of training for self defense. They think, “Whew, I’ve finally got a gun with me!” Instead, they should be thinking, “Ok, I got a gun, now I need extensive training with it.”

Don’t feel bad if your one of the ones that got complacent after getting your gun. I have seen a lot of cops who got complacent also. Don’t believe me? If you know a buddy that is a cop, take him out one day and ask him to shoot his pistol at a target sometime. You might be surprised is he doesn’t shoot much better than you do. Then, take that target that your shooting at and place it about 50 yards from you. You’d be amazed how many people miss with a pistol at that range, but that doesn’t have to be the standard.

Even cops rarely train to shoot beyond 25 yards. At 50 yards, people automatically think that their pistol is useless. Not true at all. My 1911 can shoot a chest group at 50 yards that you would think was done at 25 yards. That’s because I train to shoot my gun from various ranges beyond the norm, and closer than the norm.

Most defensive encounters are at ranges much closer than 25 yards, yes. But even then, people don’t train that way with their weapon usually. How often have you done close quarters pistol drills with your concealed carry weapon? Most people have not done this but perhaps once.

For those of you that carry knives, Have you ever done a close quarters drill with your knife? I have never done this with a knife either. I am new to the whole “Martial Arts” thing. But what it has taught me so far is that I need to train extensively with all the weapons that choose to use for self defense, not just my gun.

DickHardman

can you wear one of those badass hawaiian shirts? they look cooler, and can are looser so you can conceal more weapons on you.

warrior_artist

I carry a springfield xd 45 and a glock 27 (not because i like the glock, mind you, but for let's say SHTF compatability issues). I plan on getting the subcompact xd 45 if they ever make it otherwise I will buy the subcompact in the 40. Galco makes a concealable in the waist band holster that you can tuck a shirt in with. I wear that with the G27 to church and other activities where I have to where a tucked in dress shirt and pants. It conceals nicely. I haven't had any church ladies freak out yet. You could also look into an ankle holster. then it doesnt matter what shirt you wear.

i have been known to carry concealed a 92fs, a couger 45, a sig p220, xd 45, g27 at different times with different clothing options and haven't encountered any "print" issues. and that's including carrying extra ammo (especially for the cougar and g27)

but if your polo shirt isn't tucked in then any iwb holster, leather or plastic (consider plastic if you plan on drawing and reholstering with any frequency...it's apain in the rear to draw and reholster often with a leather holster)

As far as gun? get what you shoot well with and make your clothing work. A lot of good it will do you to have a nicely concealed firearm that you shoot like piss with. there is a world of subcompact/compact firearms to choose from. Get one that you shoot well with and one that will go bang everytime you pull the trigger.

WA

Mike Brewer

It's funny; now that I live in Virginia, I have to get used to a whole new concealed carry scene. In Colorado, my buddies and I all carried compatible ammo, and we carried in the caliber that the local cops used. Different guns, because I just will not carry a Smith and Wesson auto and I don't like Glocks, but same caliber so ammo is transferable. When I was regularly carrying my Springfield XD, I realized that with a file, you can make a new mag catch notch in the magazine and it will also fit the Beretta 92. Slightly different notch, and it'll function in a Sig. After that discovery, my mags all worked in three different guns, and were swappable between my friends' guns on any given day. I used MagTech magazines for this, by the way, not factory, and when used in the Sig, it required some upward pressure from the non-firing hand from time to time, but as an "Oh Shit" option, it was better than nothing.

I still carry mostly the Sig Sauer, because it's the only gun I've ever owned that just refused to let me down, ever. It doesn't jam, it doesn't fail, it eats anything I feed it, and it's nasty accurate. Like you said, warrior, it just feels right in my hand, and I don't have to be nearly as conscious of my fundamentals when shooting it. It's always lined up. It's also a lot more controllable for me than the polymer frame pistols. My double-taps are regularly within an inch of each other, offset on the diagonal by just about a bullet-width. My time on the doubles is at right about .2 seconds most days with that gun at no sacrifice in accuracy, and it's got a factory standard trigger!

Your advice to carry what works well for you is about the most sage advice anyone can offer. Your weapon has got to feel good in your hand, it has to function reliably, and its performance needs to be predictable in a broad range of environments. I'm often surprised at people's reactions the first time you get them shooting weak-hand or in off positions like lying on their backs. They get weird jams they don't normally experience, they see the effects of loose or weak wrists...all kinds of stuff that spells unwated perforations in a fight situation. Gotta train it.

warrior_artist

Yeah, TRAIN! TRAIN! TRAIN! Is there anything better? Train till you're thinking..."If I do this one more time...AGH!" and then do it again.

Mike Brewer

warrior, you may be up on this:

Have you seen or heard any field reveiws about the Sig Sauer P250? It looks like potentially one of the best ideas for cops and civilian carry I've ever seen. Completely modular, with drop in firing sets that give you a longer or shorter pull (makes the same gun useable for a very wide range of people with tiny little hands to great big paws like mine), interchangable frames and interchangable slides/barrels. The overall size of the gun is just a matter of swapping out the slide and barrel, and it's actually engineered to work that way. Looks promising, especially from a company like Sig.

dariannation is the only other person here who I can think of that might be really up to speed on it, but I haven't seen him around lately.

warrior_artist

I haven't heard any reviews on it, but I like it. The interchangeability of calibers isn't that big of a factor for me as I tend just to shoot one caliber. Though I do own two guns outside of that caliber. I do like the grip options. I have big paws and small guns and I don't get a long (read G27).

I like that Sig has come out with a new polymer frame DAO pistol. I like the DAK system, real smooth. And i liked the old polymer frame that they discontinued sp2340. I never got around to buying one, but it felt good in my hand.

Looks to be promising. I might just get one for fun. Especially if it's a DOUBLE STACK .45acp from SIG. I like the P220, but want more than 8 rds. That's something I love about my XD, 13rds of hydraulic interruption.

Mike Brewer

The double stack .45 angle really appeals to me too. I tend to carry in .40, and I've had a great deal of luck with it in terms of feedability, accuracy, and results on all kinds of test media. Several years back, I wrote an article on high-performance ammunition and low-budget counterparts that compared the accuracy and performance of the higher dollar Gold Dots, Hydra Shoks, Golden Sabres, etc. to lower budget "practice ammo." The idea was to find low budget comparables that shot as much like the high budget stuff as possible so that your practice rounds would impact at the same point as your daily carry loads. It was an intensive test, and I shot a little over 9,000 rounds to do it. For the performance end of things, we shot six different major high-end rounds into gelatin, wet phone books, denim covered meat and bone, car doors, and tempered glass (to test deflection). While many of the .45's I shot choked on various ammo (Cor-Bon with its notoriously wide mouth and the Taurus 100% Copper bullets failed to feed in a couple of different 1911's, including a Kimber Custom), the .40's ate everything without a hiccup. In the end, the terminal performance of the .40 was truly impressive. Penetration and expansion were more consistent, accuracy was generally better, and energy was better at combat ranges than .45 ACP. That, combined with the fact that no ammo failed to feed in any test gun, won me over to .40 S&W for good.

However, I love the slab-sided knockdown of a .45 ACP defense round, and I like the fact that it makes a nice big leaky hole in the bad guy. Given the performance of the .40, and the fact that I could get about 5 more rounds of it in a given handgun, it's been my favorite, but a hi-cap .45 might cause me to reconsider.

Garland

that picture looks familiar...

http://www.onesourcetactical.com/ind...rodID=731&HS=1

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