No2

I've watched some gun defense videos and DVDs, and none seem to take into account that the top part of the gun (I'm not a gun buff so I don't know the name of the parts) moves back when fired, or that if you twist the gun this way or that may cause the gunman to inadvertently press the trigger.

All in all, none of the gun defenses I've seen take into account the moving parts of a firearm. Are there any videos out there, or any tips on avoiding injury from these moving parts?

eXcessiveForce

Probably not, Injury is not the focus of gun defense it is survival.

That part you are talking about is the slide.

What they also don't mention is that if the gun has been fired a few times the barrel is going to be quite hot.

but say it burns you, breaks your finger etc. that is still better than taking a bullet.

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eXcessiveFORCE.

If you must use force, make it excessive.

eXcessiveForce

I've seen a pretty neat disarm where the slide is removed, don't know if it would really work, or if it's even really possible.


seems the best disarms I know of are beating the guy unconscious or shoot him from 300 yards with a high powered rifle and nice scope from a tower. lol

__________________
eXcessiveFORCE.

If you must use force, make it excessive.

Garland

Busting a cap through the ass of the generations. Word up, dawg.

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Komm Susser Todd.

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Mike Brewer

Actually, almost all good defenses (if there are such things when dealing empty-handed with guns) take into account four basic ideas:

1. Proximity
2. Angle of Attack
3. Firearm Action
4. Follow-Up Actions

Proximity is obvious: You have to be close enough to get your hands on the weapon if you're going to disarm it.

Angle of attack presumes that you need to not only attack the weapon from an angle that the assailant is blind to, but you also need to be aware of the angle of the barrel. More importantly, the resulting trajectory of a bullet leaving said barrel. You have to get hands-on the gun before he has a chance to react, and you have to maintain muzzle control to insure the angle of attack from the firearm never crosses anything meaty.

Firearm Action refers to the moving parts of the gun - the action. This can be the slide on a semi-automatic, or it can be the cylinder on a revolver. A semi-automatic pistol will generally not fire if the slide is pushed backward "out of battery." The reason is that the slide is actually what retracts spent casings, ejects them, re-cocks the hammer and sets the sear, pushes a new round out of the magazine and into the chamber, and (here's the important part) lockes it there, sealing the chamber to control the recoil of the fired shot for the purposes of going through the process all over again. If the slide is compressed backward, it effectively opens the chamber of the gun and presses the structures of the action against the hammer and sear and that in turn disengages the trigger and keeps it from making the hammer drop. Even if the hammer could drop, the change in angle makes it improbable that the hammer would land in line with the firing pin, and so the round could not go off anyway. Point being, with most auto pistols, moving the slide back as little as a half-inch can keep it from discharging. Tightly gripping the cylinder of a revolver can do the same thing, because the cylinder needs to rotate a new round into position before firing.

What happens more often than not is that the first shot will go BANG! and the person conducting the disarm will either get it, or be shot. If you've managed to get a hand on the gun before that second shot is able to load, you're dealing with a short club. This is because the chamber will likely be filled with a spent casing that the slide was not allowed to eject. To get a round in the chamber, the assailant needs to rack the slide in order to eject the spent casing and load a fresh one. This can't be done by squeezing the trigger. It's got to happen manually.

Follow-up is what happens after you get your hand on the gun. A lot of dosarms try specifically to affect the trigger finger, using the trigger guard to snap it and prevent re-use. That's not essential, however. What's essential is that you keep the muzzle away from you before, during, and after the disarm. In more "advanced" stages, it might also mean taking into account where others are so you don't actually force the bad guy to shoot your wife in the head as you take his gun away, but we'll save that for another post.

EDIT:
And eXcessive Force is Spot on. Don't worry about pinching your fingers. Just get the damned gun away. Worrying about getting pinched or bruised by the moving parts of the gun while attempting to disarm a murderous attacker is a lot like worrying about getting frostbite while trying to escape an avalanche or heat stroke while trying to get out of a burning skyscraper. It's just not a top priority.

DonKey

If you're holding the slide (of a recoil operated pistol)when the gun goes off it's not going to do more than scratch your hand a little. in some firearms training courses they'll actually have you hold your thumb behind the back of the slide to keep it in battery in case you have to press it into someone before pulling the trigger.
This is ideal with firearms like glocks and striker fired pistols that don't have a hammer

The pistol will malfunction and need to be cleared to function again whether you are impeding the slide or someone else


Doesn't work with all pistols, since not all of them are recoil operated. Other pistols can and will injure you more seriously. This possibility definitely wouldn't stop me from trying to disarm.

Mike Brewer

Absolutely, DonKey.

In fact, I remember drilling very close-quarter responses to people trying to disarm. One of the options (albeit for a very isolated instance) is to brace the slide with your own hand to keep it in or restore it to battery and fire while holding the slide yourself. The back off, rack it, and continue as appropriate. I've done it bare-handed hundreds of times with Sig-Sauer, Beretta, H&K, and 1911 model pistols of all types and it doesn't hurt.