tactics for small guys - Page 2

Tant01 · 05-05-2008, 05:48 PM

That's the beauty of Judo... It doesn't take much force to topple or choke. When you need to apply torque to destroy a limb you can use both hands and arms, both legs and your whole core against one joint...

Targeting specific "vital" areas is not unique to judo.

Gentle is sort of a mis translation of "JU"...

People are breakable.

Adept · 05-05-2008, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Wright

The guy asked about an art or a training method that is based on the specific concept and strategy of handling someone bigger and stronger.

Wouldn't be using the leverage principles of BJJ or Judo be just that?

Sorry for my poor insight. It just looked like to me your previous post was stating that arts like BJJ or Judo wouldn't be what he was looking for because they train in weight classes.

It's just that my own personal experience with BJJ, I've rolled and trained with bigger partners.

DonKey · 05-05-2008, 08:34 PM

I'd tend to agree with that, not much gentle about the judo I've seen.

Fact of the matter is that strength and size does matter, and a smaller guy is going to have to work harder to fend off someone bigger and stronger.

Get good at western boxing, then throw in some Judo or BJJ. Kali for weapons and other interesting dirty tricks and you're set.

TTEscrima · 05-05-2008, 08:51 PM

Learn to use weapons, it's always better to have a force multiplier. My favorite weapon is one I have with me nearly all the time and it's my favorite thing to hit to hit people with, it's the Earth. Learn to throw people.

formulab · 05-05-2008, 10:05 PM

Thanks for all the advice,
has any of you guys executed "throw moves" in street fights against bigger guys? or what's your experience of fighting bigger guys?

Tant01 · 05-06-2008, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTEscrima

Learn to use weapons, it's always better to have a force multiplier. My favorite weapon is one I have with me nearly all the time and it's my favorite thing to hit to hit people with, it's the Earth. Learn to throw people.

Isn't GRAVITY awesome?

Ryan Bellegante · 05-06-2008, 03:51 PM

Look at Russian Systema

KingKrav · 05-07-2008, 01:00 AM

I recommend Krav Maga. Krav Maga is a martial art in which everything you learn is designed for street fighting and it teaches you tactics in which you can overcome bigger, stronger opponents, even those that may be armed with knives or pistols and it also teaches you to fight from disadvantaged positions, such as against multiple attackers, when exhausted, when dizzy, ect. It is also very quick and easy to learn, in the few weeks I have trained, I've already learned three ways to defend against knife threats, defenses against three types of chokes, defenses against bearhugs, holds and hay makers, pre emptive strikes and what to look for in a person who may be a threat.

I'd advise you to check out what is in your local area, visit each training center/dojo and check each place out and do some research on different martial arts you choose. Remember, it's up to you to choose which art fits you best and watch out for flashy gimmicks.

bodhisattva · 05-07-2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Wright

Although I am a big fan of all the above, all four arts are focussed around and operate within weight categories. Therefore I'm not sure that is what the guy was looking for. Would the attributes taken from any of those arts help him in a fight? Sure, but its perhaps not the specific answer to the problem posed, IMO.

they all fight with weight limits because they are both assumed to be equally trained.

It doesn't change the fact that if you want to learn to hit HARD with WHAT YOU'VE GOT then boxing is the way to go.

If you want to learn to control another man's weight, even when he's much larger, then wrestling and judo have it.

And if you want to learn to control another man on the ground, and submit him, then it's BJJ, in my book.

--
Sure, they fight within weight classes. What should we expect, 115 pound men fighting 215 pound men, both of them well trained, both of them in good condition?
--
Weight classes exist because both fighters are trained. There is no "Magic Way for Small Guys" outside of good striking skills, good throwing skills, and good ground skills.
--
At SBGi Portland, I'd see large, built construction workers, body builders, and others come in the gym's front door.

They'd get OWNED by the little guys there - in boxing, throwing, and ground. OWNED.

Why? Because those arts are great when a little man has to fight a big man.

bodhisattva · 05-07-2008, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tant01

Isn't GRAVITY awesome?

Yes. In fact, Gravity, coupled with a persons tendency to fall clumsily (if they don't wrestle/grapple) work together really well.

Wilks123 · 05-08-2008, 01:14 PM

Actually I am also looking into getting a martial art to defend myself,but i havent found any places which are very practical. Mainly not very good teachers or just teaching the flashy unrealistic stuff.

Im from South London, surrey in the suburbs, does anyone know of any good places around here they would recommend.

Id be grateful for any info thanks.

integrityma · 05-23-2008, 09:45 PM

Best strategy, stick close to your attacker, but away from his front, where big guys have the advantage. Keep moving. Never stop striking and moving. If your smaller and trying to kick, that puts you right in his punching range. all grappling arts mentioned are good, but require lots of training, and never address multiple attackers. Try a few arts, and see what works best for YOU. good luck.

Garland · 05-25-2008, 05:55 PM

Ok...before we begin...I am a 22 year old kid who just graduated college...I am 5'7''.

Muay Thai
FMA
BJJ
Shooto/CSW
all under the umbrella of JKD concepts, or taught as the individualized expression of JKD from somebody within the Inosanto line...i.e. Vunak, Barbito, Paulson, etc.

Muay Thai will teach you how to hit and dominate the stand-up part of a fight...if you look at K-1 champs...this tends to be the art they come from. Kyokushin, Seidokaikan, and Ashihara karate in combat sport form are all simply Japanese variants of muay thai. (as the saying goes, good art is borrowed, great art is stolen)...and as a short guy, it'll teach you how to be tough, how to close the gap and beat the living shit out of somebody clinch range. Tall guys are fun to clinch with. TBA schools are the best for technique...fighting camps and gyms with an active stables of fighters will help you learn to apply the technique and cut your teeth.

*An aside- Bob Spour and Richard Grannon focus on working out of what is essentially a muay thai based framework for their self defense paradigm...adding things like c-grips, neck cranks, etc. I actually really like the NLP (psuedo-psychology) stuff they teach too, things like the "fence" and so forth.

BJJ has pretty much proven itself to be great for submission stuff and working the ground...judo has better throws...but that is neither here nor there...basically if you are well versed in positioning, transitions, submissions, and takedowns, you will be a good grappler- no matter what the source.

CSW- along those lines...it's Erik Paulson's art...and it is awesome. Pretty much incorporates all ranges except weapons and it's Sensei Paulson's marketed expression of JKD.

FMA- filipino martial arts, from which I suggest the following: inosanto blend, pekiti tirsia, sayoc, dekiti tirsia, and atienza kali. Weapons work and really nasty empty hands stuff. This isn't brawling stuff, it's combatives and it's geared toward ENDING the person, not just ending the fight.

JKD- Sigung Bruce Lee's set of concepts and philosophies...not to be confused with Jun Fan Gung Fu. Look up Dan Inosanto. 'nuff said, the man's a legend, and those coming from his camp tend to be trained in some or all of the above, with other arts thrown in as well. You know six degrees of Kevin Bacon...it's like one degree of Inosanto when it comes to the leading edge in the martial arts community for the past...er...maybe 4 decades...or...at least twice as long as I've been breathing.

Inosanto guys are like mixed drinks with premium constituents...all parts are top quality, but you'll like certain blends better than others. Here are some examples:
Paul Vunak (PFS)

YouTube Video

Erik Paulson (CSW)

YouTube Video

YouTube Video

stay tuned...more to come...

Garland · 05-25-2008, 06:28 PM

The Dog Brothers (DBMA) ...yes I include them...

YouTube Video

YouTube Video

w/ Gabe Suarez, one of the leading firearms instructors in the world

YouTube Video

Demi Barbito (CSPT)

YouTube Video

...the list goes on...

05-05-2008, 05:48 PM	#16 (permalink)
Tant01 Humble Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Northern Ca. USA Posts: 4,665	That's the beauty of Judo... It doesn't take much force to topple or choke. When you need to apply torque to destroy a limb you can use both hands and arms, both legs and your whole core against one joint... Targeting specific "vital" areas is not unique to judo. Gentle is sort of a mis translation of "JU"... People are breakable. __________________ "In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur." James Paterson

05-06-2008, 03:51 PM	#22 (permalink)
Ryan Bellegante Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 10	Look at Russian Systema __________________ Nami Ryu Aiki Heiho www.namiryu.com Ryan Bellegante

05-23-2008, 09:45 PM	#27 (permalink)
integrityma Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4	small guy Best strategy, stick close to your attacker, but away from his front, where big guys have the advantage. Keep moving. Never stop striking and moving. If your smaller and trying to kick, that puts you right in his punching range. all grappling arts mentioned are good, but require lots of training, and never address multiple attackers. Try a few arts, and see what works best for YOU. good luck.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
ok who u guys think will win these guys are oppisits mike tyson vs royse gracie	escrima demon	Open Access	13	12-01-2006 10:39 AM
Tactics Brainstorm	Mike Brewer	Tactical Military and Law-Enforcement Training	17	09-17-2006 04:55 PM
Martial Arts for Small Guys?	Mordrid1	Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) & BJJ Forum	21	07-27-2005 06:05 PM
BJJ is tough for small guys...	pstevens	Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) & BJJ Forum	15	06-30-2005 02:07 PM
Martial Arts for Small Guys?	Mordrid1	Chinese Martial Arts	7	06-25-2005 12:57 PM

05-05-2008, 08:34 PM	#18 (permalink)
DonKey Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 41	I'd tend to agree with that, not much gentle about the judo I've seen. Fact of the matter is that strength and size does matter, and a smaller guy is going to have to work harder to fend off someone bigger and stronger. Get good at western boxing, then throw in some Judo or BJJ. Kali for weapons and other interesting dirty tricks and you're set.

05-05-2008, 08:51 PM	#19 (permalink)
TTEscrima Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: planet Earth Posts: 593	Learn to use weapons, it's always better to have a force multiplier. My favorite weapon is one I have with me nearly all the time and it's my favorite thing to hit to hit people with, it's the Earth. Learn to throw people.

05-05-2008, 10:05 PM	#20 (permalink)
formulab Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 2	Thanks for all the advice, has any of you guys executed "throw moves" in street fights against bigger guys? or what's your experience of fighting bigger guys?

05-07-2008, 01:00 AM	#23 (permalink)
KingKrav Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4	I recommend Krav Maga. Krav Maga is a martial art in which everything you learn is designed for street fighting and it teaches you tactics in which you can overcome bigger, stronger opponents, even those that may be armed with knives or pistols and it also teaches you to fight from disadvantaged positions, such as against multiple attackers, when exhausted, when dizzy, ect. It is also very quick and easy to learn, in the few weeks I have trained, I've already learned three ways to defend against knife threats, defenses against three types of chokes, defenses against bearhugs, holds and hay makers, pre emptive strikes and what to look for in a person who may be a threat. I'd advise you to check out what is in your local area, visit each training center/dojo and check each place out and do some research on different martial arts you choose. Remember, it's up to you to choose which art fits you best and watch out for flashy gimmicks.

05-08-2008, 01:14 PM	#26 (permalink)
Wilks123 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 9	Actually I am also looking into getting a martial art to defend myself,but i havent found any places which are very practical. Mainly not very good teachers or just teaching the flashy unrealistic stuff. Im from South London, surrey in the suburbs, does anyone know of any good places around here they would recommend. Id be grateful for any info thanks.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)