What's the difference between SD and Women's SD?

[gregimotis]

When 'combatives' type styles teach Self defense, do they differentiate between men's and women's self defense? What's the difference?

What would be the differences in technique or attitude between general self defense classes and women's specific classes?

[TNT]

Women's SD vs General SD classes

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I'm in a "general" SD class, is there any value add to taking a "women's" SD class?
look at all the responses to my thread LOL

[TNT]

Originally Posted by gregimotis

When 'combatives' type styles teach Self defense, do they differentiate between men's and women's self defense? What's the difference?

What would be the differences in technique or attitude between general self defense classes and women's specific classes?

We do gun and knife takeaways, we cover applying and breaking out of chokeholds. We grapple. We do improvised weaponry. Wristlocks, throwing, pressure points.....you know the drill.......what will a women's SD class teach me?

[jukado1]

There should be no difference between self-defense for men or woman, but in reality mens s/d is geared to being able to beat an opponent while woman's s/d should be geared to avoiding the attack, preferably by avoiding being in a situation where you can be attacked or even in danger, which means a major part of the training will be mental, or stopping the attack and giving yourself enough time to get out of danger. men SHOULD train with the same goals, but mens ego, macho/stupid causes men to train fight, not self-defense.

[sikal]

Originally Posted by gregimotis

When 'combatives' type styles teach Self defense, do they differentiate between men's and women's self defense? What's the difference?

What would be the differences in technique or attitude between general self defense classes and women's specific classes?

Some aspects of SD are universal - such as awareness, avoidance, etc.

Speaking in *very* broad generalizations here that are by no means universal, just tendencies of the culture that I deal with here in America - it might be different in other parts of the world. Women are usually targeted by guys. The average guy is bigger, heavier, and stronger than the average woman. Most guys have some experience with fighting and violence - to one degree or another, it's part of growing up for most guys. Women tend to have experienced less in the way of physical violence and more in the way of emotional/mental trauma in growing up. Consequently, men tend to be better prepared for a physically violent confrontation. And that's not even bringing into the the whole cultural taboo of "ladies don't fight."

So a women's SD course should address some of these issues. It should be more geared toward getting the women to overcome their habitual (through years of cultural training and experience) reluctance toward physical violence. Also, the point needs to be stressed that their attacker is likely to be bigger, heavier, stronger and with more fighting experience. So the course should stress what the women have in their favor - agility, surprise (most guys don't expect a serious fight from a woman), and, most importantly, self-preservation motivation.

Men and women pretty much get attacked for the same concepts. The attacker either wants money or wants to cause injury - maybe for some perceived slight or maybe just because. The difference between the two, though, lies in the details of the injury intended. Taking a beating is no picnic - but it's much easier to cope with (from an emotional/mental standpoint) than rape and that's what women are usually faced with when the attacker intends injury.

From this standpoint, stakes are higher for a woman. This needs to be stressed to women in a women's SD course. They need to understand that with stakes that high, they have no room for mercy. A man might have the option, depending on the situation, of subduing his attacker. A woman, generally, doesn't have that option. She has to inflict as much damage as possible and leave - all in as little time as possible.

Of course, this general rule of thumb is true for both men and women on a conceptual level. But, again, the devil is in the details. Women have to understand that if they're attacked, they need to be ready and willing to pull out all the stops and not stop until they're safely out of danger.

At least, that's my take on the differences between general SD and women's SD.

Mike

[mrniceguy148]

Originally Posted by jukado1

There should be no difference between self-defense for men or woman, but in reality mens s/d is geared to being able to beat an opponent while woman's s/d should be geared to avoiding the attack, preferably by avoiding being in a situation where you can be attacked or even in danger, which means a major part of the training will be mental, or stopping the attack and giving yourself enough time to get out of danger. men SHOULD train with the same goals, but mens ego, macho/stupid causes men to train fight, not self-defense.

Hi jukado,

You're right on here! Good call!

[Yinboxer]

Originally Posted by sikal

Some aspects of SD are universal - such as awareness, avoidance, etc.

Speaking in *very* broad generalizations here that are by no means universal, just tendencies of the culture that I deal with here in America - it might be different in other parts of the world. Women are usually targeted by guys. The average guy is bigger, heavier, and stronger than the average woman. Most guys have some experience with fighting and violence - to one degree or another, it's part of growing up for most guys. Women tend to have experienced less in the way of physical violence and more in the way of emotional/mental trauma in growing up. Consequently, men tend to be better prepared for a physically violent confrontation. And that's not even bringing into the the whole cultural taboo of "ladies don't fight."

So a women's SD course should address some of these issues. It should be more geared toward getting the women to overcome their habitual (through years of cultural training and experience) reluctance toward physical violence. Also, the point needs to be stressed that their attacker is likely to be bigger, heavier, stronger and with more fighting experience. So the course should stress what the women have in their favor - agility, surprise (most guys don't expect a serious fight from a woman), and, most importantly, self-preservation motivation.

Men and women pretty much get attacked for the same concepts. The attacker either wants money or wants to cause injury - maybe for some perceived slight or maybe just because. The difference between the two, though, lies in the details of the injury intended. Taking a beating is no picnic - but it's much easier to cope with (from an emotional/mental standpoint) than rape and that's what women are usually faced with when the attacker intends injury.

From this standpoint, stakes are higher for a woman. This needs to be stressed to women in a women's SD course. They need to understand that with stakes that high, they have no room for mercy. A man might have the option, depending on the situation, of subduing his attacker. A woman, generally, doesn't have that option. She has to inflict as much damage as possible and leave - all in as little time as possible.

Of course, this general rule of thumb is true for both men and women on a conceptual level. But, again, the devil is in the details. Women have to understand that if they're attacked, they need to be ready and willing to pull out all the stops and not stop until they're safely out of danger.

At least, that's my take on the differences between general SD and women's SD.

Mike

Thank you, sikal, for one of the most intelligent posts I have seen in this forum (I am new here, but have been lurking a while).

Women's self defense classes should not be the only SD class you take. You cannot learn to defend against a male attacker without training with some men. However, Women's SD is important. Some women aren't comfortable having men in a class, especially if they have been attacked by one. Some just don't understand their potential yet. A purely women's SD course could open the door to further training.

Ladies, if you were taking self defense hoping you could go out and beat up men, you are outta luck. However, you can learn to defend yourself. sikal is right here, however, you have to be brutal. I have heard from many women, "I don't want to hurt anybody...Isn't there something where I can throw him and get away?" This is pure fantasy. Personally, I have never grasped this mindset--someone is trying to rape you or drag you off to his basement for his "collection" or something, and you want to be NICE?!? There is an old saying in the martial arts: "To show mercy to your opponent is to show cruelty to yourself." Have no mercy, don't fight fair, and like sikal said, don't stop until you are out of danger. Don't believe that you are good enough to just "get out of the way." What about his buddies waiting in the bushes?

[areusafe]

HiYa Group,

Men and Women are taught the Progressive Minimum Force Concept:

Avoidance/Escape
Evasion/Escape
Defusion/Escape
Defensive Tactics/Escape

[sikal]

Originally Posted by Yinboxer

Thank you, sikal, for one of the most intelligent posts I have seen in this forum (I am new here, but have been lurking a while).

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Yinboxer

Women's self defense classes should not be the only SD class you take. You cannot learn to defend against a male attacker without training with some men. However, Women's SD is important. Some women aren't comfortable having men in a class, especially if they have been attacked by one. Some just don't understand their potential yet. A purely women's SD course could open the door to further training.

Ladies, if you were taking self defense hoping you could go out and beat up men, you are outta luck. However, you can learn to defend yourself. sikal is right here, however, you have to be brutal. I have heard from many women, "I don't want to hurt anybody...Isn't there something where I can throw him and get away?" This is pure fantasy. Personally, I have never grasped this mindset--someone is trying to rape you or drag you off to his basement for his "collection" or something, and you want to be NICE?!? There is an old saying in the martial arts: "To show mercy to your opponent is to show cruelty to yourself." Have no mercy, don't fight fair, and like sikal said, don't stop until you are out of danger. Don't believe that you are good enough to just "get out of the way." What about his buddies waiting in the bushes?

Unfortunately, I've often talked to women about SD issues who shy away from that whole concept. I think it goes back to the cultural issue that I mentioned. But that's the one of the biggest problems I've encountered when dealing with women in training. How to get them past that ingrained reticence toward violence?

I love your quote of "To show mercy to your opponent is to show cruelty to yourself." That's good.

Mike

[Yinboxer]

Originally Posted by sikal

Thanks.

I love your quote of "To show mercy to your opponent is to show cruelty to yourself." That's good.

Mike

I'm not sure where it came from, but it is one of my favorites!

Sometimes, women just need a little encouragement. If you would have told me 6 years ago that I would be into training 6 to 10 hours a day and carrying a knife (weapons are great equalizers) I would have said you were nuts! Now, I think training is the most fun you can have. Now I'd rather train than go to a movie, amusement park, dancing, etc.

[bbbb]

Just wondering.

As a man, we're taught(we do have ladies in our kung fu school/academy) to use attack. this doesn't mean to go out and attack people- but if someone attack's you, then you surprise them by attacking yourself.

the idea is that no one can use their planned attack whilst running backward's.

My question is do your method's include pushing the attacker backward's: backward's and then forward's is cool?

"Use attack as your indestructable spiritual strength".

It's regarding momentum and not being crushed by it-so we use attack.

...Which is what you girl's are already doing so..don't worry about me

[litegod]

sikal, i love your posts. very well thought out.

in any contact with ladies(family, friends,co-workers etc) that seem very hesitant about taking any form of self defense, i have a tendancy to be tender but use brutal realism with them.

the main thing i tell them is this" if you are grabbed by somebody and they try to take you away in a car, you fight, you kick, you scream, you bite, you scratch you do anything you can, because if they can take you away from there it is all over, they are taking you away from your husband,boyfriend, family, kids, your dog. you must use every bit of force in your body to make it not happen.PERIOD!!"


when i help teach self defense it is the same methods for both sexes.where i teach though it is primarily ladies and kids but the odd man does show up and goes through the exact same scenarios as the ladies.
as far as i am concerned there should be no difference in teaching men and women. survival is non-discriminary, it cares not if you are an innie or an outtie. the same steps aretaken to ensure yougo home that night. police go through the same steps, military goes through the same steps.

[EmptyneSs]

the difference is that most womens sd classes are just scams to make money off of scared women.

[sikal]

Originally Posted by litegod

sikal, i love your posts. very well thought out.

Thank you. I do my best

Mike

[IOM Combat]

Howdy All,
I haven't been teaching long but when I started I found I was being asked specifically to do womens sd. Most of the women who came to me said this was, at least in part, because they felt more comfortable training in an all female group. I find it tends to be an easier way for them to get into it all without the intimidation which comes from a large group of blokes. After a while and when they have gained some confidence most of them tend to come along to the mixed classes.
The actual self-defence classes though tend to be little different, with the main change occuring the the verbal approach and body language of the attacker.

Cheers
Dan