MT: Very emotional

[Knowledge Bot]

Very emotional By Hand Sword - Mon, 18 Sep 2006 05:59:20 GMT

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Forgive me in advance ladies, but, I feel the need to rant a little.

Over the weekend I found myself in a rather funny conversation, at first, with a good sized group of young, multi-ethnic girls, that turned into, at least for me, something of a serious topic. The original topic was about music and the culture of the "old" days (the 80's in their view). Under "attack" was the "sappy" songs, ballads, and how their lyrrics were geared toward winning the heart of a girl. This sort of floored me a bit, as I would think, teenage girls would be accepting of such stuff. To my surprise, This was not so. Then, the alarming topic came into play. They were explaining that it's about being B's and hoe's, pimps, and playing the game. They found great fun and amusement when comparing their notes and experiences of this kind of interraction with the boys, and other girls. It got so bad that I got up on the "soap box" and preached against what they felt was the norm for them to behave. I kind of scolded, I guess, because I got silence and those blank stares by everyone. After some said, with a sad belief, that's all there is for them in their world. I thought I saw that hopeless look in their eyes, or maybe shock to my opposition, I've never spoke publicly, or in front of the class, so to speak, so, I could be way off on everything.

This sort of stunned me, and as the weekend went through, and I spent time at home and work, I kept heraing versions of their side from the young kids in the neighborhood, to the adults. I feel that over all there is something serious going on, especially with young females, that needs to be addressed. This is why I'm posting this here. M.A.'ers seem to be willing to take on a challenge, and see it through. With that, I ask that you all really listen to what's being said around them, maybe more than you normally would. If it's present, please, step forward and check it! I felt the need and said to hell with how I'm viewed. If I could just convince one......

To any who are not apart of this forum and are reading this, and feel like I stated, DON'T!

THAT'S NOT ALL THERE IS FOR YOU!
YOU DON"T HAVE TO ACT LIKE THAT OR TRY TO BE THAT WAY!
ALL of you COOL, GEEK, or whatever are on the same side! It's not O.K for any of you to have to experience that.

To the men or boys that hear/see this, STEP UP and CONFRONT it! It might not be popular, but, this battle needs to be fought!

Again, I may be ridiculous here, admittedly so. But, I think this is more prevalent than most think. Please don't dismiss it! Please LISTEN!

Again my apologies if found irrational. I typed from feelings, so it probably didn't come out right, or the way I really wanted. But, I think it is worth it.


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MartialTalk.com Post Bot - Women's Self-Defense Feed

[Tom Yum]

Originally Posted by Knowledge Bot

The original topic was about music and the culture of the "old" days (the 80's in their view). Under "attack" was the "sappy" songs, ballads, and how their lyrrics were geared toward winning the heart of a girl.....
THAT'S NOT ALL THERE IS FOR YOU!
YOU DON"T HAVE TO ACT LIKE THAT OR TRY TO BE THAT WAY!
ALL of you COOL, GEEK, or whatever are on the same side! It's not O.K for any of you to have to experience that.

Rooooooxane! You don't have to put on tha Red Light!!! Just kidding, man. Well, you were talking to a group of teenage girls. Ever meet anyone under 25 who knew who they were and what they wanted to do and were female?

[3mptin3ss]

this what we wanted. we sexualized and objectified women till they completely internalized and accepted it. and now all our wives, sisters, moms, and daughters, and nieces are just sex objects in society(except for the ugly ones). and most of em are ok with it

ive seen mothers wearing shirts that say MILF ( Mom I'd Like to ****) on them as they are pushing their strollers.

[Little Apple]

Sad. I saw panties in the little girl's section that said "eye candy" on them.

[white devil]

man i seriously fucking agree with this topic....its so hard to find a nice good girl theses days...THEYVE ALL BEEN AROUND!!

I mean.. you dont mind this kind of stuff when ur looking to get laid,but when that same kind of stuff will happen to ur sister u'll see!

[jubaji]

Overreaction and double-standard

[Tom Yum]

Originally Posted by white devil

man i seriously fucking agree with this topic....its so hard to find a nice, good girl theses days...THEYVE ALL BEEN AROUND!!

All things being equal, its heart and personality that count the most.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Dutch antilles girls 14-18 years old in the southeast of Amsterdam having sex for a couple of breezers or 5-10 euro, they just see it as way to get something extra

[tellner]

The last two waves of feminism are rushing back out to sea, and the high-water mark of the first one is in danger. As we become more conservative, more pornified, and more heartless commodifiers of everything it won't get better any time soon.

With the resurgence of truly reactionary theocratic conservatism in the US there is more talk of "traditional values" which means less support for women's civil rights, less willingness to help them overcome the effects of discrimmination and more emphasis on making them some sort of 1950s fantasy Stepford Wives. We already see movements to help the poor oppressed boys because they are no longer ahead of girls academically. It's become fashionable to excuse women's lack of advancement in professions as their biological fault. And feminism has been so effectively smeared and slandered that many women whose actual positions are classic third-wave feminist are afraid to so identify.

Take a look at How the Pro-Choice Movement Saved America. It's not just about the abortion issue. There are strong currents at work to undo the more equitable relations between men and women, outlaw contraception, suppress women's sexuality entirely and go back to an era when men ruled their wives "as Christ rules the Church". There are no women at any point in their reproductive lives who remember a time when birth control wasn't available, when it was considered wrong for women to have sexual needs of their own or when most professions and full civil rights were barred to them by custom or law. The people who want to undo all of that have the ear of the White House and Congress and make government policy.

Now, I am not against porn or prostitution per se. Legality, regulation and vicious penalties for coercion, abuse or human trafficking are about the best we can do. Besides, fantasies and arousal are basically Good Things(tm). And as long as it's illegal the women and children caught up in the trade are werewolf bait and can't go to the police when they are victims of violence or exploitation.

But there's more than that. With stripping mainstream - a local free weekly advertises poledancing aerobics for "everywoman" - and pr0n to suit any taste immediately available we are seeing a nearly unprecedented commodification of sexuality and plenty of education in unrealistic expectations and fairly nasty behavior for the impressionable. Much has been written by liberals and conservatives on the subject, and many of them are in surprising agreement. It filters down to teen and pre-teen girls. I've seen ten year olds playing at stripping moves. And I must admit to experiencing near physical pain at the shock. Pimps, the meanest form of semi-human life, lower than whale shit, are trendy. In my neighborhood it's not uncommon for boys to refer to girls as ho's and the girls to stand for it.

I won't risk melting the server by giving my opinions of sites like "Hot or Not" and their effects on the young and insecure.

Sex is good, and romance is over-rated, but if everything is reduced to a cold commercial transaction we've sacrificed one of the most precious and intimate parts of our humanity on the altar of The Dollar. We are infinitely poorer for it. If there isn't room for love the rest is just monkeys rubbing mucous membranes together. Poetry and song are the vehicles for expressing the deep desire to be special, to be someone's beloved and adored. Every girl has the right to be considered more than a hole for someone's penis.

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by tellner

With the resurgence of truly reactionary theocratic conservatism in the US there is more talk of "traditional values" which means less support for women's civil rights, less willingness to help them overcome the effects of discrimmination and more emphasis on making them some sort of 1950s fantasy Stepford Wives. .

Utter nonsense. America has always been a country where the majority of people are religious, and women have more equality and opportunity today than ever before. Don't cloud the issue with liberal double-speak.

[Sagacious Lu]

Originally Posted by 3mptin3ss

ive seen mothers wearing shirts that say MILF ( Mom I'd Like to ****) on them as they are pushing their strollers.

Does this mean that they don't have self respect, or does it just mean that they have a sense of humor?

[3mptin3ss]

Originally Posted by tellner

The last two waves of feminism are rushing back out to sea, and the high-water mark of the first one is in danger. As we become more conservative, more pornified, and more heartless commodifiers of everything it won't get better any time soon.

With the resurgence of truly reactionary theocratic conservatism in the US there is more talk of "traditional values" which means less support for women's civil rights, less willingness to help them overcome the effects of discrimmination and more emphasis on making them some sort of 1950s fantasy Stepford Wives. We already see movements to help the poor oppressed boys because they are no longer ahead of girls academically. It's become fashionable to excuse women's lack of advancement in professions as their biological fault. And feminism has been so effectively smeared and slandered that many women whose actual positions are classic third-wave feminist are afraid to so identify.

Take a look at How the Pro-Choice Movement Saved America. It's not just about the abortion issue. There are strong currents at work to undo the more equitable relations between men and women, outlaw contraception, suppress women's sexuality entirely and go back to an era when men ruled their wives "as Christ rules the Church". There are no women at any point in their reproductive lives who remember a time when birth control wasn't available, when it was considered wrong for women to have sexual needs of their own or when most professions and full civil rights were barred to them by custom or law. The people who want to undo all of that have the ear of the White House and Congress and make government policy.

Now, I am not against porn or prostitution per se. Legality, regulation and vicious penalties for coercion, abuse or human trafficking are about the best we can do. Besides, fantasies and arousal are basically Good Things(tm). And as long as it's illegal the women and children caught up in the trade are werewolf bait and can't go to the police when they are victims of violence or exploitation.

But there's more than that. With stripping mainstream - a local free weekly advertises poledancing aerobics for "everywoman" - and pr0n to suit any taste immediately available we are seeing a nearly unprecedented commodification of sexuality and plenty of education in unrealistic expectations and fairly nasty behavior for the impressionable. Much has been written by liberals and conservatives on the subject, and many of them are in surprising agreement. It filters down to teen and pre-teen girls. I've seen ten year olds playing at stripping moves. And I must admit to experiencing near physical pain at the shock. Pimps, the meanest form of semi-human life, lower than whale shit, are trendy. In my neighborhood it's not uncommon for boys to refer to girls as ho's and the girls to stand for it.

I won't risk melting the server by giving my opinions of sites like "Hot or Not" and their effects on the young and insecure.

Sex is good, and romance is over-rated, but if everything is reduced to a cold commercial transaction we've sacrificed one of the most precious and intimate parts of our humanity on the altar of The Dollar. We are infinitely poorer for it. If there isn't room for love the rest is just monkeys rubbing mucous membranes together. Poetry and song are the vehicles for expressing the deep desire to be special, to be someone's beloved and adored. Every girl has the right to be considered more than a hole for someone's penis.

" Feminism is a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians." - Pat Robertson.

[3mptin3ss]

Originally Posted by Sagacious Lu

Does this mean that they don't have self respect, or does it just mean that they have a sense of humor?

it lacks integrity lu. would you want your wife wearing a shirt that says mom id like to **** while she is pushing your baby in the stroller?


when u see those douchebags wearing " big johnson" t shirts do you think its funny and cool or do you think they are jackoffs for wearing that shit?

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by Sagacious Lu

Does this mean that they don't have self respect, or does it just mean that they have a sense of humor?

Wouldn't that just be an endorsement of masturbation?

[Sagacious Lu]

Originally Posted by 3mptin3ss

it lacks integrity lu. would you want your wife wearing a shirt that says mom id like to **** while she is pushing your baby in the stroller?
when u see those douchebags wearing " big johnson" t shirts do you think its funny and cool or do you think they are jackoffs for wearing that shit?

It depends entirely on the context. My friend and his wife joke all the time that she's a MILF- and why not, they're just having a laugh. Would I want her wearing it to my company picnic or to Thanksgiving diner with my parents? Of course not. But if she thought it was funny and wanted to wear it out roller-blading in the park or to a poker game I don't see the harm- I think it's silly but so what? It's just a dirty joke on a t-shirt. At the wrong time in the wrong place it's in poor taste but I don't think you can judge someone's integrity by their clothes. Actually, I think if you pass judgement on a woman and look down on her because she's wearing something revealing than you're just as guilty of objectifying women as the guy that treats women like pieces of meat. You can't judge a person based on their appearance. There are plenty of strong, honest, intelligent, hard working women who like being sexy. I don't see anything wrong with that provided it's done in the right place at the right time.