Exaggerating about testicle squeeze?

[Garland]

I'm saying that it's going to be hard to land a flush kick or punch in a real life scenario where the person is closing in quick, or is already on you...grabbing will be difficult through clothes...a knee is a good idea...but the rest will more than likely glance off the thigh, be blocked or stuffed...etc before it can land. The person is not going to stand at the right range for you to kick them, if it's a sexual assault...chances are it'll be an ambush anyway, and you'll be working from a prone position, or from a clinch...if it's a straight up assault, the person will try and blitz you, they're not likely to square up, circle, or stay at kicking range...

AND if you want to lean down to throw a punch at somebody...be my guest.
A slap to the groin while in the process of doing other things might soften a guy up...but I wouldn't count on it to work all the time...and never anticipate it would work on its own.

[BCAA]

nordmann:

The short answer to your question is that if you squeeze a man's testicle with even half the force that an average woman's hand can squeeze with, it is going to completely incapacitate him unless he is on some sort of serious anesthetic drug. And even then, I'm not sure. I heard from a guy who got hit with a paint-ball (not even ruptured) who said that the strongest painkillers the hospital had didn't completely stop the pain--if he wasn't knocked out cold, he was still in agony. If you can can crush a half-ripe plum or apricot in your fingers, then you can squeeze hard enough to rupture a testicle, and no man--not even one doped up on PCP--can continue to do anything after that injury.

Pain based methods are inherently uncertain,as pain tresholds vary invidually and enviromentally. Mechanical disabling,like taking out a joint,cannot be overcome.

The force required to rupture a testicle is estimated to be 50 kilos. Most untrained women might find it hard to deadlift 50 kilos with both arms,at least it would likely take several seconds. It takes up to several seconds for a muscular contraction to reach maximum strength output. http://www.emedicine.com/med/byname/...lar-trauma.htm

I've read quite a few postings in various places saying something to the effect that groin attacks aren't as effective as what you see on TV. That's total, ridiculous BS. Why do men say that? Are they scared to admit that they have this weakness?

While some men may exaggerate the durability of the testicles,your writing tends,IMHO,slightly to the direction of a ballbusting fan,who fantasize about being submissive and deny female weaknesses.
Very rarely does one see a man shrug off a testicle attack in TV or cinema. Sometimes the effects are even strongly exaggerated,like being incapacitated by a towel whip. Although everyone is an invidual.

Yes, there are guys who are into "ballbusting", who enjoy having a woman hit them there. But we're talking light to moderate blows. Even the most hardened masochist can't take a forceful blow there without suffering the usual effects. And as long as he's crumpled to the ground in a helpless, harmless, motionless pile, and you get away unharmed, who gives a crap whether he "enjoyed" it.

If you go to YouTube,you can see a lot of boys volunteering to take fairly hard hits from girls,with varying success. I think that's pretty sad that they do,as it is harmful and sets a questionable example,but the point is a lot of them are willing to do it,while you almost never see a female subjected to the same treatment. Just imagine a woman being peer pressured into taking a haymaker in the face from a grown man. That's not even such a vital area.

As a woman, you have only one severely vulnerable area to defend, and it happens to be right near where you arms attach to your body. You'd be stupid not to take advantage of this basic strategic advantage.

That makes me think of breasts. Women are required,recommended or allowed special chest protection in a lot of (combat) sports,so there's one vulnerability men don't have,aside from having more fragile bones,muscles,connective tissues and a higher concentration of nerves around the body leading to more pain. Sometimes the breasts can get even more tender than the testicles,relative to the menstrual cycle,but I'm sure there is invidual variation to that too.
The ovaries are another gender specific weakness,although not necessarily a large one. Under UFC rules,some kicks to the kidneys are banned,which shows that mere internal location of an organ does not render them completely safe.
Finally,it all depends how you define "severely" vulnerable. Women surely have advantages in the nether region department,but also some possible weaknesses,and some of the advantages even out in intergender fights,which is what all of women's self-defense is about. The sensitivity of the vulva is suggested by the fact that it is recognized as a target in self-defense publications.
http://www.gedanate.com/Vulnerable-Points.html
http://www.the-aes.org/combatEvolved.html
Second,the pubic bone of the female is likely more fragile,which adds to the severity of an impact. A man can exert quite more power,which would compensate,more or less,for any relative insensitivity to pain and injury.
In addition,at least a few female fighters (such as TKD olympians) have been incapacitated by the strike of a fellow competitor,despite presumably wearing protection. Genital protection is also recommended or downright required in ringette,a sport in which body contact is banned and the plaything is a flexible ring,quite more forgiving than the solid, rock hard puck of ice hockey.

And if he has her undressed,then he can tear her vulva &/or vagina with his hands. A penis can cause injuries there,so it is not surprising.

When a 100 pound woman and a 200 pound man confront,the entire body of the woman will appear like a giant testicle (rather,an ovary) to the man,in terms of vulnerability.

[Michael Wright]

Originally Posted by BCAA

That makes me think of breasts.

I'm with you there, on so many levels.

[Little Apple]

Wow. Well I'd just like to thank Garland for pointing out the eyes and throat. If someone is on top of you, and you are lucky enough to have a hand free, isn't the throat a lot closer than the groin? Did you know that the human has no natural reflex to protect the throat? Sure it can be trained in, but it's not there by itself. Men do have natural reflexes to protect the groin though; so if I were ever in this situation (pinned with a hand free, and imminent rape in my future), I would crush the bastard's wind pipe, stomp on his face, and let him suffocate slowly as I broke all his fingers.

Not that I have any strong opinions about rape though.

[Garland]

Since this thread has been resurrected...may I state that the benefits in a gentle squeezing of the testicles during coitous or other sex acts can not be over emphasized or exaggerated. Same with a gentle pumping of the perineum and, for the more adventurous, the prostate.

next up on Dr. Garland...
female ejaculation, mystery or myth?

In which we will talk not only of the g-spot, Skene's glands, and clitoral stimulation...but also of the u spot (urethral sponge)...an often underrated and overlooked alternative to the g-spot.

Dr. Ruth...brace yo self, nucca.

(note, I used purely medical terminology, I have taken several college classes on human sexuality and anatomy and physiology...so I see no practical reason why this post should be deleted...it is NOT pornographic in nature)

I can probably help with any questions anyone may have, and give an educated amatuer guess as to whether a disorder or a dysfunction is psychological or physiological in nature...and I am rather familiar with paraphillias also.

[SmallThought]

Hey Gen.....

Just to get back to the original issue of your thread; i have been hit in the testicles quite a number of times and yes it does hurts... a lot! Once, when i was young in high school, a kid even punched me fair in the jewels when the fight went to the ground. I guess it incapacitated me for long enough for him to get a few good punches into my head; but i agree with those that say grabbing is probably not practicle.

I once knew of a girl who used the old "monkey picks coconuts" on a young fella who wouldn't take no for an answer at a disco. She suceeded in sending him directly to hospital but was: a/ highly trained kung fu chick, and b/ this was a stand up situation back in the 80's when loose pants of light fabric where fashionable... i dare say it would be difficult to pull this off (pardon the pun) through jeans and from a prone position. Remember, a guy who is already on top of you is probably going to be making efforts to restrict your hand/arm movements to stop you trying just such a move. If you can get a free hand, why not claw the bastards eyes out!??! At any rate, jamming your knee into his groin may prove a more realistic attack option, it is definitely the closer weapon to the target.

Seems to me that although learning ways to get out of such a prone position is important if all goes wrong, the point of effective self defense is to avoid getting into such a position and creative chances to escape prior to this point. As for over all effectiveness of groin attacks, well, i believe they are good only when used to create openings to attack other soft targets. If you can get the groin attack in to open up the eyes and throat, you will find an attacker with bleeding eyes who is sucking for air after a couple of half fists to the throat is easier to get away from. Be aware that most things you try aren't going to work on their own and you will need to to keep fighting like a woman possessed in order to succeed in your escape. You may even need to employ a passive approach in order to let the guy think it's going to be easy and give you the opening you need.

My best advice would be to find a self defense course that teaches all aspects of awareness and prevention, environmental strategies, attacker psych profiles as well as physical defense and mental toughness techniques (ie: the survivors mentality as opposed to the victims). Once you find this defense course, make sure they offer ongoing training and not just "short course" methodology, as these courses rarely work. You want to be able to constantly reinforce your theoretical understanding as well as drill defensive techniques to overcome the FREEZE impulse if and when a true blitz attack does occure.

Understanding attackers psycology is also vital, as certain attackers behave in certain ways that can be assessed and predicted to a degree; each can/should be handled in different ways: fighting back is not always the best strategy to survive an attack and sometime having a good post event strategy is more important to your continued physical and psycological well being.

Remember, the unknown ("blitz") attacker on the street is looking for a victim, not a survivor; just looking confident and being aware of your surroundings can be the best defense against this sort of attack!!!

Hope this was helpful in someway.
Cheers.

[Little Apple]

Good post there! I especially appreciate that you brought up how you're going to have to keep fighting. In an attack situation, it is Always your turn to hit them. And as good old Captain Reynolds once said, "Now you don't stand for that kind of treatment! Somebody tries to kill you, you just try to kill them right back!"

[freefighter2010]

Gareland,

Great post. Dont you feel that this applies to any strike that you use. I mean if i dont land my hook punch, jab, upper cut they wont be effective. This is no different from landing a kick.

A particular strike should not be relied upon in isolation. A kick should one of the strikes in your arsenal.

FF

[Shoot]

I can speak from experience in sports that getting knocked in the balls does not stop you. I didn't wear a cup when I played football and took a couple of shots to the balls and was still able to make tackles after busting through blockers--achy balls and all. Off topic but related: In fact I played an entire game with a broken arm (that I broke in the first play of the game) and made many tackles.

The point is that when adrenaline is high and a person is determined to overpower somebody, the pain threshold is greatly increased.

I also agree that it is very difficult to land a clean strike to the groin or grab the balls through clothes. And yes, retaliation for messing with a guys balls in a not nice fashion is quite predictible.

[Michael Wright]

If I may offer just my own experiences. In my brief tenure as a doorman, and also my own personal self-protection experiences, for whatever reason - the groin kick has been my greatest weapon. All the comments made so far are spot on, a shot to the balls is not necessarily a fight stopper, and some people can brush it off and carry on, at least temporarily.

What I have found benefits the groin kick is three things:

1. Make it a shock, both physically and mentally. Move from stillness and a passive nature, to a sudden, shocking strike. This requires a great deal of deception and initiation speed. It is this combination of shock and pain to a vulnerable area, that can render your opponent useless for long enough to close out the situation. Pain, without shock and surprise, won't cut it.

2. Expect them to move, so reach long and aim to hit with the shin. If they move you hit with the toe of the shoe (ouch) and if they don't move you crush the balls with the shin (ouch)

3. Hit twice. This has been my greatest ally. Everyone wants a shot to the balls to be a fight ender. My greatest success has been in hitting once solid, then follow up immediately with a shot of great power in the same area. Double tap, you get the idea.

Each to their own opponent - but it has been my best friend on a number of occassions.

[Garland]

Originally Posted by freefighter2010

Gareland,

Great post. Dont you feel that this applies to any strike that you use. I mean if i dont land my hook punch, jab, upper cut they wont be effective. This is no different from landing a kick.

A particular strike should not be relied upon in isolation. A kick should one of the strikes in your arsenal.

FF

Huh? You've completely lost me.

[Knuckles&Knees]

How can someone Exaggerate about testicle squeezing?

You can graze my balls and I'm going down.

Is there some 'Chinese secret' to getting Iron Tiger Balls? I don't even like the thought of getting my balls gripped and squeezed with the intent to crush. The thought is enough to make me faint.

[freefighter2010]

Shoot,

Your a minority i am sure the average guy who attacks a woman is unlikely to be a skilled fighter like you who can take this kind of pain. I am all for the kick for 2 reasons...

1. It is effective so long as used with other counters
2. It opens the body up to further attacks

Originally Posted by Shoot

I can speak from experience in sports that getting knocked in the balls does not stop you. I didn't wear a cup when I played football and took a couple of shots to the balls and was still able to make tackles after busting through blockers--achy balls and all. Off topic but related: In fact I played an entire game with a broken arm (that I broke in the first play of the game) and made many tackles.

The point is that when adrenaline is high and a person is determined to overpower somebody, the pain threshold is greatly increased.

I also agree that it is very difficult to land a clean strike to the groin or grab the balls through clothes. And yes, retaliation for messing with a guys balls in a not nice fashion is quite predictible.

[Happy Cat]

Just my opinion, But I think the suden suprise and shock of a groin strike is what temporatily incopacitats. That is my personal experiance, as a man, and I think it is consistent with the last several posts.

A groin squease or grab is diferent. I agreee with those who are saying that a grab or squese would be likely to provoke an extreem violent and powerfull reaction.

A strike to the groin makes you want to get away. With a grab, you can not get away, you can only act fast to crush your attacker. I think that this reaction is instinctive and predictable. Be carefull.

Strike and move or strike and strike. Holding is not to the advantage of the smaller or weaker fighter. If you can't move, then strike to create space so that you can move. The groin grab is contrary to all of this. Using it will put you at great risk.

Use the groin strike prior to his taking you to the floor. After that you need your hands to defend your face. Keep them high and attack the eyes and throat, while trying to gain space by bucking and interposing your legs.

I an not a grapler though. Perhaps MW has some advice on throwing off the pin.

[Shoot]

Originally Posted by freefighter2010

Shoot,

Your a minority i am sure the average guy who attacks a woman is unlikely to be a skilled fighter like you who can take this kind of pain. I am all for the kick for 2 reasons...

1. It is effective so long as used with other counters
2. It opens the body up to further attacks

I don't mean to imply that their not worth striking if available. It's better than say kicking someone in the shin. I just don't think it can be relied on like you commonly see in a self defense book where the middle aged martial arts guy in blue jeans, sneakers, and a white tee-shirt playing the attacker doubles over with his hands holding his groin making that "ooof ooof" face for the final knockout blow to the chin. Guys instinctively protect their groin very well, so it's not so easy to carry out. When guys posture for attack they instinctively put themselves in a staggered semi-athletic stance. Not many attackers are going to stand with their legs spread right in front of you. Also, the number one instinct to intercept an incoming foot to balls is to grab the offending foot and proceed to try and do something really mean in response.

I'll have to say this too about self defense programs and martial arts in general. I have always noted a tendancy to discount the fighting and athletic instincts that we are born with. Martial arts are a refinement of what occurs to us naturally. I don't need to study martial arts for 10 years to know that taking on an athletic stance in a fight is a good idea or to try to tackle and get on top of someone to beat the snot out of them. The "mount" is just a word for something men have been doing for thousands of years in combat with absolutely no training at all. Every person is born with fighting instincts and should not be underestimated.

I also agree that squeezing in close quarters is a compromise and judgment call. Squeezing means one or both of your hands are occupied and a severely violent reaction is predictible--e.g. eye gouging, fish hooking, ear ripping etc... Of course if a man is wearing pants during the squeeze it may be hard to even get to them.