Morality and Weapons

[treelizard]

I haven't read this whole thread but here's my $.02 anyway... I used to carry weapons everywhere I went until I started teaching. Since it's basically a felony to have so much as a pocket knife within a certain distance of a school, I knew I couldn't carry to work. I also knew that I would be likely to "accidentally" have something on or near my car if I carried at all, so I started carrying more and more infrequently. I guess I felt also like I had to get used to not carrying so I could do it without feeling naked since I feel like the area I work at is the place where I am most likely to get into a physical confrontation. I take many precautions (such as not getting gas near my work and basically just driving straight home) and we have the best security team at my school that I could ask for. So far my biggest issues have been a kid squaring up to me (which I honestly just started laughing and that seemed to disarm him), a lockdown (which was a false alarm as there was nobody inside the school, but I would have been relatively prepared if there were), someone tagging on my vehicle (this person was caught on camera and there were many witnesses some of whom intervened), and most recently a six-person fight. I responded to that by getting help, which basically caused everyone to disperse and then when I got help we figured out who was involved. I was kind of mad at myself for not physically stopping it but I know of very few people who would try to take on six kids on their own, and I am pretty happy with the outcome with what I did do--the fight ended, names were gotten, and there weren't additional people that got hurt.

The crazy thing is that it is ILLEGAL for me to physically touch any student. This includes taking someone's hand to escort them to the door or even putting a hand on their shoulder. The advice I received about preventing violence, breaking up fights, etc. involved wearing running shoes, not allowing anyone to get between you and an exit, getting out of the room and getting a billion dollar umbrella policy to protect from lawsuits, etc. Lots of "do not touch the student under any circumstances." I guess when it comes down to it, I want my students to be safe and running away is safer than engaging. As far as breaking up fights, I feel like it would theoretically be cool and heroic to break up a fight rather than let students cause serious harm to one another, but I would not take it on on my own. Honestly, hepatitis and HIV are two good reasons to stay away from fighting children. Sound callous? Maybe.

Anyway, I know I've been pushing SBGi a lot but this is a great article:
http://www.straightblastgym.com/awareness_vs.htm

[GranFire]

Holy Cow, where do you teach?!

But I guess part of being trained in the MA is also knowing how not to fight...(I can't find any fault in not getting between fighting parties...any pet owner knows that's the best way to get bit by your own Fluffy...)

[DickHardman]

Originally Posted by treelizard

I haven't read this whole thread but here's my $.02 anyway... I used to carry weapons everywhere I went until I started teaching. Since it's basically a felony to have so much as a pocket knife within a certain distance of a school, I knew I couldn't carry to work. I also knew that I would be likely to "accidentally" have something on or near my car if I carried at all, so I started carrying more and more infrequently. I guess I felt also like I had to get used to not carrying so I could do it without feeling naked since I feel like the area I work at is the place where I am most likely to get into a physical confrontation. I take many precautions (such as not getting gas near my work and basically just driving straight home) and we have the best security team at my school that I could ask for. So far my biggest issues have been a kid squaring up to me (which I honestly just started laughing and that seemed to disarm him), a lockdown (which was a false alarm as there was nobody inside the school, but I would have been relatively prepared if there were), someone tagging on my vehicle (this person was caught on camera and there were many witnesses some of whom intervened), and most recently a six-person fight. I responded to that by getting help, which basically caused everyone to disperse and then when I got help we figured out who was involved. I was kind of mad at myself for not physically stopping it but I know of very few people who would try to take on six kids on their own, and I am pretty happy with the outcome with what I did do--the fight ended, names were gotten, and there weren't additional people that got hurt.

The crazy thing is that it is ILLEGAL for me to physically touch any student. This includes taking someone's hand to escort them to the door or even putting a hand on their shoulder. The advice I received about preventing violence, breaking up fights, etc. involved wearing running shoes, not allowing anyone to get between you and an exit, getting out of the room and getting a billion dollar umbrella policy to protect from lawsuits, etc. Lots of "do not touch the student under any circumstances." I guess when it comes down to it, I want my students to be safe and running away is safer than engaging. As far as breaking up fights, I feel like it would theoretically be cool and heroic to break up a fight rather than let students cause serious harm to one another, but I would not take it on on my own. Honestly, hepatitis and HIV are two good reasons to stay away from fighting children. Sound callous? Maybe.

Anyway, I know I've been pushing SBGi a lot but this is a great article:
http://www.straightblastgym.com/awareness_vs.htm

take a look at the fred perrin pen. its for SD. the cap can be used as a punch dagger as well

http://www.edcknives.com/vcom/produc...oducts_id=1105

cold steel sharkie is also made for self defense.....
http://www.coldsteel.com/91sp.html


you can also carry regular items that double as weapons. for example you could keep a decent sized screw driver in your desk, say you need it for something around the classroom or your desk lock gets stuck and u need to pry it open or something. there are plenty of items you can use as weapons that wont raise any suspicion.

flashlights
pencils/pens
screw drivers
hammers
deoderant sticks and spray cans
a fork for your lunch


get creative as you want. carry weapons at all times.

[TTEscrima]

Originally Posted by DickHardman

take a look at the fred perrin pen. its for SD. the cap can be used as a punch dagger as well

http://www.edcknives.com/vcom/produc...oducts_id=1105

cold steel sharkie is also made for self defense.....
http://www.coldsteel.com/91sp.html

Neither of those is a good choice for a deniable weapon, both are made for the gear queer brigade. Any well made pen will do fine without the court being able to prove you were trying to sneak a weapon into a place that didn't allow them.

[DickHardman]

Originally Posted by TTEscrima

Neither of those is a good choice for a deniable weapon, both are made for the gear queer brigade. Any well made pen will do fine without the court being able to prove you were trying to sneak a weapon into a place that didn't allow them.

screw the court man. id rather save my life first, then suck off johnny cochrane and beg him to cut a deal with the DA later.

[TTEscrima]

Originally Posted by DickHardman

screw the court man. id rather save my life first, then suck off johnny cochrane and beg him to cut a deal with the DA later.

Self defense is about decreasing your vulnerability, both of those toys increase your vulnerability without any benefit over a normal pen, they're marketing tools not SD tools. Anyone who can defend themselves with one of those could do it with any ink pen or marker.

[treelizard]

Great. I dare you to take your screwdrivers and pens and forks and deodorant sticks spend ten minutes in the neighborhood where I teach trying to break up gang initiations and then we'll talk.

Originally Posted by DickHardman

take a look at the fred perrin pen. its for SD. the cap can be used as a punch dagger as well

http://www.edcknives.com/vcom/produc...oducts_id=1105

cold steel sharkie is also made for self defense.....
http://www.coldsteel.com/91sp.html


you can also carry regular items that double as weapons. for example you could keep a decent sized screw driver in your desk, say you need it for something around the classroom or your desk lock gets stuck and u need to pry it open or something. there are plenty of items you can use as weapons that wont raise any suspicion.

flashlights
pencils/pens
screw drivers
hammers
deoderant sticks and spray cans
a fork for your lunch


get creative as you want. carry weapons at all times.

[treelizard]

Originally Posted by GranFire

Holy Cow, where do you teach?!

But I guess part of being trained in the MA is also knowing how not to fight...(I can't find any fault in not getting between fighting parties...any pet owner knows that's the best way to get bit by your own Fluffy...)

I break up boy fights all the time, it's the girls that scare me. They don't immediately stop fighting as soon as you walk over. I'd want at least one person per girl, two if possible.

[DickHardman]

Originally Posted by TTEscrima

Self defense is about decreasing your vulnerability, both of those toys increase your vulnerability without any benefit over a normal pen, they're marketing tools not SD tools. Anyone who can defend themselves with one of those could do it with any ink pen or marker.

actually they are reinforced to decrease the chance of them breaking on impact. i doubt your normal bic pen is anywhere as strong. plus, these pens arent that expensive, they are the same price as regular pens. so why not buy one specifically made not to break when you are using it to split open someones skull?? i mean i could probably defend myself just fine using a 16 sinker nail i pick up off the ground at work on my way to my car, should i not buy any knives or impact weapons in that case?

[TTEscrima]

Originally Posted by DickHardman

actually they are reinforced to decrease the chance of them breaking on impact. i doubt your normal bic pen is anywhere as strong. plus, these pens arent that expensive, they are the same price as regular pens. so why not buy one specifically made not to break when you are using it to split open someones skull?? i mean i could probably defend myself just fine using a 16 sinker nail i pick up off the ground at work on my way to my car, should i not buy any knives or impact weapons in that case?

How much of pen sticks out of your hand when it's gripped like you would use it when striking with it? An inch? That's unlikely to break on a human and if it does it will just have a jagged edge for the next strike. Buying weapons is fine, just don't get caught up in the cool toy market.

[DickHardman]

Originally Posted by treelizard

Great. I dare you to take your screwdrivers and pens and forks and deodorant sticks spend ten minutes in the neighborhood where I teach trying to break up gang initiations and then we'll talk.

i didnt say walk around the neighborhood with them, they were suggestions for items that could be placed in your classroom that could double as last ditch weapon in case a student tried to harm you.

[DickHardman]

Originally Posted by TTEscrima

How much of pen sticks out of your hand when it's gripped like you would use it when striking with it? An inch? That's unlikely to break on a human and if it does it will just have a jagged edge for the next strike. Buying weapons is fine, just don't get caught up in the cool toy market.

what if it breaks and injures your hand??? now you have to fight off an attacker with a sliced up hand.

[treelizard]

Originally Posted by DickHardman

i didnt say walk around the neighborhood with them, they were suggestions for items that could be placed in your classroom that could double as last ditch weapon in case a student tried to harm you.

I'm not worried about students trying to harm me. I'm worried about my students getting home safely. Now they want to change the schedule for high schools and middle schools because too many high school dropouts are blaming it on being late for their first class. Instead, we'll have 11-year old girls waiting for the bus in the winter when it's still dark out.

[Mike Brewer]

Originally Posted by TTEscrima

How much of pen sticks out of your hand when it's gripped like you would use it when striking with it? An inch? That's unlikely to break on a human and if it does it will just have a jagged edge for the next strike. Buying weapons is fine, just don't get caught up in the cool toy market.

Very good advice. I've used ink pens on a few occasions to dissuade people, and in each instance, they did a great job as weapons. The shock of getting stabbed in the inner arm below the bicep is hysterical to watch, and it diverts a person's attention entirely to that spot. I gigged a former co-worker there when he didn't take warnings to stop poking me in the chest seriously, and that was enough to deflate the whole balloon.

Never had one break, either.

Of course, the whole concept of using a pen as a weapon (or for thinking of it before an engagement gets out of hand) has brought me some pretty serious criticism from some people...

[GranFire]

Originally Posted by treelizard

I break up boy fights all the time, it's the girls that scare me. They don't immediately stop fighting as soon as you walk over. I'd want at least one person per girl, two if possible.

Aye, girls are scary...no bite inhibition...

in a transcendent way, of course...