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  • ...What about this guy...

    ..opinions...I'll keep my mouth closed until I see what other people think.

    SURVIVAL SOLUTIONS KALI SILAT JEET KUNE DO

  • #2
    Originally posted by Garland View Post
    ..opinions...I'll keep my mouth closed until I see what other people think.

    SURVIVAL SOLUTIONS KALI SILAT JEET KUNE DO
    He is teaching exactly has he has been taught in that clip,looks like Vunak in the 80s.

    Comment


    • #3
      He's teaching solid PFS material, and looks capable enough. Not the best I've seen but not the worst, like Fire Cobra said the guy is just emulating what he has been taught.

      Not a fan of his website I'll be honest. It switches me off straight away when people write about themselves in the third person and use words like "world renowned". Its just comes across as conceited and narcissistic, its also not true, cos I've never heard of the guy.

      Final observation from me is his DVD Certification program, where you pay $400 for a bunch of DVDs and get a Full Instructor certificate. That's the kind of approach that has completely watered down the quality and reputation of JKD.

      Sorry if that sounds like a bit of a bitch, but if you put yourself out there on the web then expect some feedback. I've certainly had my fair share.

      Comment


      • #4
        From what I see I have no problem with his art...I just have a problem with the way in which he is promoting and selling the art. To take any of these arts and create a mail-order instructorship process, certainly one with no testing process...has got to effect the art. In effect, I feel like it's worse than a McDojo. He may be a decent instructor...but to have a bunch of his untested, effectually untrained student/instructors try to carry on the art means that the quality and purity of the system is going to take a major hit!
        By purity, I don't mean that these arts shouldn't, or for that matter aren't, subject to adaptation or interpretation on an individual basis or across the board...I just mean that the lineage is forgotten, the tools are unpolished, and the students just will NOT ever be of the quality of an actual instructor who would train 4-5 days a week for years.
        The way the current instructorship process is organized is set up that way not to keep people out or to make money...it's to test individuals and push them to embody what they learn and preserve the quality of the art.

        Good example- the TBA tests. Not only must the individual know the art inside and out, they have to be able to apply the art and perform the art, understand some of the cultural background, and also be "jumped in" through a grueling right of passage that I believe helps instill respect, comraderie, and a sense of fraternity/sorority among its practitioners.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mike Brewer
          Guys, I agree that the commercial side is a turnoff, but the fact is, it's how Mr. Lopez has chosen to make his living. He has to promote himself aggressively, and he has to appeal to his target audience (which, in case you were still in the dark, isn't you and me). He's not selling to people that train with the same people he has, nor people who already know the material he teaches. He's taught some clients that carry a lot of weight with his target audience, so he's doing the right things (for his business) by promoting that.

          As for his material, it's good. It's good when Michael does it, when Rick Faye does it, when I do it, or when a hundred other guys do it. It's no secret that this material is out there and it works. I am not sure why we tend to look at martial artists and expect everyone who's out there promoting themselves to be "new and improved" or "innovative and different." The simple fact is, what Mr. Lopez is teaching works. That should be enough for anyone, but because we've already been through the drills, we don't give him any credit, and we sure as hell don't see it with the same eyes we did at the beginning. No matter how familiar you are with the material, it's still voodoo magic to someone who's spent a lifetime learning Enshin Karate at the local YMCA.

          Like I said, I understand what a turnoff it is to see the shameless self-promotion stuff. I don't like it either, and that's why I don't have a school anymore. I hated having to get out there and sell myself, or try to make people believe I was any better than anyone else. Fact is, I'm just another guy, and I'm not the right guy for a lot of folks. They don't want to train the same things I do, and they don't want it for the same reasons I do. I'm sure Mr. Lopez sees it the same way, and he's doing the smart thig as a businessman - he's not paying any attention to the people who disagree, and he's trying to gain the attention of those who want what he's selling.

          I see no reason to fault the man for that.
          Good post Mike.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mike Brewer
            EDIT:

            I also think that the concerns for "dilution of the art" are overstated, at least in terms of those who practice seriously. There are always going to be more flakes and wannabes than serious practitioners. There are always going to be those who put on the T-Shirts and go to the seminars, but who never really live the training. Here's the thing:

            It's NEVER going to affect those who DO take it seriously.

            The serious among us are always going to train seriously. And what's more, we'll find those who teach seriously. The pretenders? They're just publicity.
            Another good post Mike,and yeah the serious ones will eventually search out the better instructors(or the better ways of training their arts) eventually.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mike Brewer
              Like I said, I understand what a turnoff it is to see the shameless self-promotion stuff. I don't like it either, and that's why I don't have a school anymore. I hated having to get out there and sell myself, or try to make people believe I was any better than anyone else. Fact is, I'm just another guy, and I'm not the right guy for a lot of folks. They don't want to train the same things I do, and they don't want it for the same reasons I do. I'm sure Mr. Lopez sees it the same way, and he's doing the smart thig as a businessman - he's not paying any attention to the people who disagree, and he's trying to gain the attention of those who want what he's selling.
              Agree and disagree.

              The man has to earn a living, and he has picked a "check me out" marketing strategy aimed at attracting a certain type of audience. In my experience, by taking this approach not only is he not giving that audience much credit, but I wager he is excluding a far wider group.

              I am fortunate to have some friends here in the UK and in the US who earn a very good living and teach the kind of organisations that Mr Lopez teaches, by using a far more intelligent and far less "in your face" marketing strategy. They get in to teach the Military and the Law by either (genuine) reputation in the field, or by submitting very well researched and professional tenders into the right people. They also know, as I'm sure you do Mike, that Military and Law Enforcement pay peanuts and once they have what they want from you they will move on to the next trend. In order to establish a sustainable business model you need to look at student acquisition and retention across the white collar and professional market space. I wager that his approach switches a lot of those people off.

              People confuse marketing with "in your face check me out trumpet blowing", it doesn't have to be that at all. Marketing can be very subtle, very customer centric and if you get it right - very honest. Mr Lopez has kind of picked "martial arts route 1" which, in my experience and research, is having an increasingly short shelf life in the 21st century. The consumer (of any real worth) is far smarter, and most will be turned off by this approach. However, maybe with his approach and $400 DVD certification, Mr Lopez has cornered the other portion of the market. I guess someone has to teach them - so good luck to him.

              Comment


              • #8
                The same right we have to throw our views at anything and everything else we discuss on here Mike, don't see why Jimmy Lopez gets a pass. Garland threw the thread out there and asked for some opinions, we're just chewing the fat that's all. Every art, method, individual, situation or point of contention we discuss on here could be viewed as judgemental, thats the nature of debate

                I've never met the guy, never trained with him, and have no problem with him at all. But that criteria matches all the people who send me emails, pm's and youtube comments about whats on their mind when they look at my art. If you go out looking to get noticed, you can be sure that you will, its a free country.

                But hey, the first rule of any good marketing is "get people talking", so Mr Lopez has got his nickel's worth out of us.

                Comment


                • #9
                  You know buddy, I respect you way too much to just back down on this and say I agree, because I don't.

                  I'm looking at this situation from two positions:

                  1. Its my job to assess the relative merits and effectiveness of the way people market their business, their product, and themselves. I do it objectively, based on my day to day knowledge in the business arena. I say again, I'm not judging Mr Lopez, in the same way that I don't judge any business that walks in my door. I look at what they are doing, offer my thoughts and recommendations, and thats it. Some people take my views on board, some people don't. If John came on this thread and said "**** you Michael you're talking out of your ass" I'd just shrug my shoulders and say thanks for your time. Its not an AA meeting, its business. No, I'm not at work right now (so please leave a message), but the thread spiked my interest because I thought I could offer some views based on my professional life. You do it all the time Mike, to great effect, its probably the main reason people warm to this forum - so don't go running to the hills on me bud.

                  2. All opinion is subjective and is based on both the perception and experience of the individual holding it. If that opinion is only to be expressed by those who are "intimately familiar with the subject matter" then lets just close the boards right now. Did anyone on this forum (with the exception of Mr Tackett) ever meet Bruce Lee? Nope. But both you and I have sure pitched in our fair share of opinions. And yes, I do assess other peoples work according to the standards and guidelines I set myself, and those which I admire in my peers and seniors. If I look at an approach that I feel contravines what I really admire then yes, lets cut the shit, I'll say its the wrong approach.

                  What is the point in holding a strong belief system if you don't express it? If Mr Lopez is expressing his belief system then good for him, by the same token I will express mine. If that makes us both braggarts then okey dokey - but in then end, I'm definitely better looking than him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mike Brewer
                    I intend to distill this particular discussion into the thing I actually take issue with - the assigning of subjective judgements to the work and effort of someone you don't know
                    Appreciated, and in return I will make my response equally concise: We, you and I, all of us on here, do that very thing day in day out, on this forum.

                    Its late here so I have to hit the hay, the floor is all yours.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      To each his own I suppose? Maybe I'm just not easily impressed? If you advertise "silat" you damn well better be ready to back it up...

                      I was never the only head hunter on the planet...If he can hold his own, more power to him...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have no problem with Mr. Lopez, I have never met him, and his credentials are impressive. His curriculum, from what I have seen on his website and on youtube looks pretty solid. I have no problem with a man trying to make a living, in fact more power to him and good on him for promoting the art.

                        I guess the training certificate thing shouldn't even bother me...I mean, I guess it is the same thing as somebody getting a degree from an accredited university (by the way...I may be looking into other grad programs in my own academic career because I made poor assumptions last spring.) versus a mail-order or on-line program.

                        Eh...too much politics...I feel like Bill O'Reily.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Here's another one...
                          AIS Home Page
                          New Page 1

                          Much more well known, also very sound credentials...black belt magazine hall of famer...Inosanto academy instructor...



                          ...I don't know guys...on one hand, it promotes the art and maybe gives individuals who don't have access or time to train in the conventional sense an opportunity to see the arts in their entirety...but it means that these new instructors aren't going to have those experiences. In a way it's creating "plastic shamans" (I think its a fair analogy). It has pros and cons...I guess that is where my discussion lies...

                          Should people be selling instructorship certifications like this?
                          What are the percieved benefits and costs of this?
                          What are some possible effects of this, negative and positive?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mike Brewer
                            Let people buy instructorships without working for them. Let instructors sell them if they want. It doesn't change the meaning of your own training unless you let it.
                            ...I remember reading this a long time ago and it stuck with me: http://bakbakan.com/ (click the link about tuklas pakay) {ps...this site has a wealth of other cool features, including full length novels such as "Swish of the Kris"}

                            I also heard something similar from Guro Dan, if I remember correctly, about this practice wherein an instructor will allow a student to become a teacher despite not being ready or lacking in some sense, and then letting them fall prey to their own devices.

                            And of course, the old adage, a belt is only good to keep up your pants.
                            I really kind of want these individuals we have been discussing to engage in this conversation, as I think candid responses from them could be very enlightening.

                            Like you say, Mike, it may be a way of promoting the arts through funding them...but that strategy seems suspect when considering the integrity of the art...

                            Whew...

                            I sound like a traditionalist don't I? Maybe I've lost my head.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The teacher learns through teaching as much as the student does.

                              That's why graduate students are allowed to work as T.A.s.

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