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  • "Functional JKD" reaction

    I have been watching the Aliveness tape of one of Matt Thorton's "Functional JKD" series... there is a bunch of amazing material in there, however he tends to really bash a lot of pretty usual training tools and methodologies, namely: chi sao, hubud, pummeling drills, essentially any type of conventional hand trapping and so forth which he considers to be "dead drills" with no application to an actual fight.

    He also spends quite a bit of time knocking silat...because you don't see it in mma...and calls it a "fantasy martial art." This opens the usual can of worms also...

    I have my own opinions, I don't necessarily agree or disagree with everything he says...I'm just curious as to what the JKDC community (and/or silat) has to say in defense of these methodologies. I'm sure everyone has their own opinions...I'm just a curious.

  • #2
    I just have to add...anyone who mentions Joseph Campbell in a martial arts dvd gets mucho respect points. I also appreciate being a skeptic and an iconoclast...

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    • #3
      Never seen the tapes. I will only say that the man is certainly entitled to his opinion, I'm sure he's not alone in his views on Silat...

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      • #4
        I agree with him but only to a point. To use chi sau as an example, I've done a lot of chi sau back when I trained Wing Chun for about 2 years, and while I found it 99% useless there is still that 1% you can get out of it. That doesn't mean I want to practice chi sau every class like we did in wing chun school, but I wouldn't mind doing it at least occasionally. There are some things that you should practice more often than other things but there are very few things I can think of that you should never practice at all. To put it a different way, if you think trapping doesn't work in a fight, does that mean that practicing trapping will make you a WORSE fighter? I don't see how, I think in the worst case scenario it will have no effect, and in the best case scenario it will improve your abilities in some way. I like trapping by the way and think it does have its role in a fight if the right opportunity arises.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Garth View Post
          I agree with him but only to a point. To use chi sau as an example, I've done a lot of chi sau back when I trained Wing Chun for about 2 years, and while I found it 99% useless there is still that 1% you can get out of it. That doesn't mean I want to practice chi sau every class like we did in wing chun school, but I wouldn't mind doing it at least occasionally. There are some things that you should practice more often than other things but there are very few things I can think of that you should never practice at all. To put it a different way, if you think trapping doesn't work in a fight, does that mean that practicing trapping will make you a WORSE fighter? I don't see how, I think in the worst case scenario it will have no effect, and in the best case scenario it will improve your abilities in some way. I like trapping by the way and think it does have its role in a fight if the right opportunity arises.
          maybe the art of Chi Sau is not fit for you....

          like me, i'm into computer since 1995 and i can fastly type basic typing using MS Word without looking at the keyboard but only staring at the monitor and source paper..... while until now i still don't know how to use MS Excel - even basics of MS Excel i dont know.... and MS Excel does not fits my ability.....

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Garth View Post
            I agree with him but only to a point. To use chi sau as an example, I've done a lot of chi sau back when I trained Wing Chun for about 2 years, and while I found it 99% useless there is still that 1% you can get out of it. That doesn't mean I want to practice chi sau every class like we did in wing chun school, but I wouldn't mind doing it at least occasionally. There are some things that you should practice more often than other things but there are very few things I can think of that you should never practice at all. To put it a different way, if you think trapping doesn't work in a fight, does that mean that practicing trapping will make you a WORSE fighter? I don't see how, I think in the worst case scenario it will have no effect, and in the best case scenario it will improve your abilities in some way. I like trapping by the way and think it does have its role in a fight if the right opportunity arises.
            Hmm well if you put two average fighter on in a martial art training.
            One learns boxing, kicking and grappling
            and the other focusses on trapping.

            Well as soon as possible the one who learned boxing, kicking and grappling will be a better fighter.
            While the other is still trying to make something work that doesnt work in a real bad ass fight.

            Why put hours in something you will not need instead of training the abbility to knock somebody out if he attacks you.

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            • #7
              I sometimes think that people get hung up on the trapping terminology, Pak sao, lop sao and so on. I too have seen Matt's videos and am a fan of aliveness or training techniques under pressure. I prefer to think of it as jamming or checking or holding, it doesn't matter. BUT, fight in a doorway or small, tight quarters and you'll employ some form of trapping.

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              • #8
                Why trapping? Attachment, sensitivity, flow...

                YouTube - Bruce Lee by Dan Inosanto RARE (old school)

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                • #9
                  Thanks for the video Tant. Unbelievably, I've never seen this one. It really says it all about trapping and the pragmatic approach Bruce and Dan took/take toward using it and achieving the "ends".

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                  • #10
                    Vs "aliveness" YouTube - MATT THORNTON ALIVENESS - martial arts most important thing Straight blast

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                    • #11
                      How can you call it "functional JKD"

                      JKD must be functional for the persona or else it aint JKD.

                      Remember Use what is usefull, Reject whats useless ect...

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