The fight starts before the first strike.

[kingoftheforest]

And the second post too

This was a good discussion on avoidance but also how it isn't always the first option or the most appropriate option. But Good points all around.

Too bad there wasn't more participation in this thread when it was posted.

I guess it isn't a subject people consider.

[darrianation]

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[kingoftheforest]

As much time as I spend here I still manage to miss threads from time to time...

Thanks for the "BUMP"!

No prob. Thought it might have some relevance since some people had voiced concerns about misrepresentation.

[Tant01]

As much time as I spend here I still manage to miss threads from time to time...

Thanks for the "BUMP"!

[kingoftheforest]

Bump.




For the first post at least.

The best self defence moves is:

dont be over confident-if you dont need to fight then dont!

[Tom Yum]

Of the different pre-fight management strategies we have discussed,

*Threat recognition
*Projection- walking/moving with confidence, projecting self-esteem
*Preemptive escape (leaving the area/walking away)
*Verbal deflection
*Verbal de-escalation
*Flipping the switch (preemption)
*Of course there is also the counter offensive

You need to know when each of these options are appropriate.

For instance it is not worth killing your neighbor because he is upset that your hedges are growing over the fence into his yard. Nor is it worth being killed because you just couldn’t let that other guy get away with taking your parking space. These situations would be handled differently (as long as you are not physically attacked) than if you were approached by an unknown contact under “suspect” circumstances.

So it is good to be familiar with all these methods (and when to use them).

I think its a good idea to let alot of things slide. I guess this is just part of my personality.

Even say if someone cuts in line somewhere. Find humor in it and let it go. Now say the guy cuts in line and starts yelling that everyone in it is a chump, he's just begging for it but there's more humor to be extracted without causing commotion and its really security/police's job to handle things like this.

Almost got ran into by an elderly guy a few weeks ago and while a startled, angry response would have been natural sometimes you have to think beyond your own situation at that instant; this guy simply didn't think to check his rear when backing out of a spot - perhaps general forgetfullness, his old age or focus on something else. Despite the near speedy collision, I kept pretty cool.

If I were to be reactive, I would have gotten excited, maybe cursed a few things and gotten angry.

When that guy approached me downtown and took me for a target, I behaved very differently; he clearly and consciously knew what he was doing. Sometimes a show of force is the only thing you can use to deter or stop others, whether its a one time thing or someone stalking you from afar.

[darrianation]

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[darrianation]

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[kingoftheforest]

This is geared towards women and sexual harassment. I wrote this up as a hand out for a women’s seminar I gave some years ago. I think as with all things you have to apply your best judgment. This isn’t really based on pre-fight as in a physical altercation. This is meant to be used at the office or on a date, in other words interpersonal relationships, etc.

However, personally and this is my own opinion, I think you have the right to tell anyone anytime to “stop” their behavior if it is bothering you. Of course they don’t have to stop and you need to be prepared for the consequences if any.

Just use you best judgment.


This meant to be used as a pre-fight management strategy where a physical altercation is a possibility.

I realize I just put this up here on the board without pretext. But the two contexts are different here and are meant to be different.

Sorry I was a little confused at first. Thank you for the clarification on that bro.

[darrianation]

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[kingoftheforest]

This is for the women out there but the men can benefit from this too.

I feel one of the most neglect self-protection strategies among the lay, especially females, many do not have clearly defined boundaries or strategies for enforcing them. Boundaries can build as well as protect our self-esteems. Setting and enforcing boundaries takes major steps to protecting you from becoming a victim. People who exhibit and project a positive self-image are less like to be victimized.

Setting boundaries:

A boundary is an invisible border between you and the rest of the world. Its intent is to protect you from physical, emotional, and sexual abuse. These are limits that you place on what behavior is acceptable to you and your belief systems. Boundaries protect your feelings of self-worth and keep you from being manipulated.

Boundaries should be based on your personal, social, religious/spiritual, and familial beliefs and should set standards of how people behave around you. You should set clearly defined and enforceable boundaries so people know where you stand and what is and is not acceptable to you. Tell them immediately when they over step those boundaries. Tell them what they did or said made you feel angry, upset, frustrated, taken advantage of, or violated. Make a direct request for them to stop the behavior and be specific. Tell them thank you when they change their behavior to let them know you noticed and it is appreciated, if their behavior doesn’t stop, leave. Your personal needs are valid; you need to take care of you.

Setting boundaries:

1) Boundaries establish limits ahead of time.
2) Boundaries protect you from physical, emotional, and sexual abuse (from becoming a victim).
3) Boundaries protect and foster high self-esteem, low self-esteem is considered to be a trade mark of an easy victim.
4) Boundaries establish what words, actions, and behaviors that is acceptable to you.

When setting boundaries think of:

1) I will not accept these types of acts, words, or behaviors…
2) People cannot…
3) I have the right to ask…
4) To protect my valuable time and energy, it is okay to…
5) I have the right to say “NO”.

Benefits:

1) People will know where you stand.
2) Healthy self-esteem.
3) You know what your limits are.
4) You know what behaviors you will and will not tolerate.
5) Self-protection strategy.
6) Respect for self.

Violation happens when:

1) Others take advantage of your willingness to please.
2) When you find yourself saying “YES” when you would rather be saying “NO”.
3) When you find yourself putting others needs before your own.
4) When other verbally or emotionally abuses you or put you down.
5) Allowing others to physically abuse you.
6) Finding your moods affected by the moods of others.
7) The feeling of being taken for granted.
8) The feeling of being manipulated.

What can you do when your boundaries are being violated??

1) Stand firm and enforce your boundaries.
2) You can say “NO”.
3) Be assertive, direct, and to the point when enforcing your boundaries.
4) Tell them their behavior is not acceptable to you and you will not tolerate it.
5) Follow through with any warning you have given them.
6) Of course you also have to know when to simply shut up and leave or preempt (if this is in prelude of a physical assault).

Keys to enforcing your boundaries:

1) First and foremost, know your boundaries.
2) Be assertive, stay calm and communicate them clearly.
3) “Say it like you mean it”, your non-verbal language needs to match your verbal language. Communication is 80% non-verbal.
4) Make eye contact, be firm, use strong tone (not aggressive), and positive body posture and use words such as “NO’ and “I”.

Examples:

1) “NO” I will not do that!
2) “NO”!
3) “I” will not tolerate the kind of language!
4) “I” do not appreciate that type of behavior, it really makes me angry, do not do it again!

Scenario:

Someone improperly touches you…

Apply your fence and using assertive body posture, tone, and words say “STOP, what you did really makes me angry, do not do it again”!

If at anytime someone continues their offending behavior or becomes hostile at your rejections or warnings “LEAVE” Immediately or prepare to go on the offensive.

While I agree with a lot of what is said here, when you are in a public place people have certain rights.

If you are in a club/bar or at a sporting event and two people are having a conversation you don't like or using language you feel is unacceptable then your only recourse is to move away or leave.

This thread started out about avoiding confrontation and many of the things you suggest here are what start them. If I am in Wal-Mart and I drop an item and say Goddamn to myself, the last thing I need is some Jesus freak telling me not to use the Lords name in vain. He may be their Lord but he may not be mine. This will lead to a verbal conflict.

At home or even in a school or daycare asking people not to use offensive language I see is fine and acceptable. These are places where it is just not necessary. But if a woman is walking down the street in a legal but revealing outfit you can't just go up and ask her to "put some clothes on". If someone is attempting to physically invade your space then by all means set up boundaries.

But this was started for conflict avoidance if people are doing or saying things you don't agree with then just move away from the situation. If what someone is doing is not against the law then you have no right to tell them to stop.

If some one yells at my wife "Nice tits bitch!" then her telling him I don't like you saying that acknowledges that he has disturbed her which usually will prompt another response and open an invitation to conflict.


I may be misunderstanding but I seem to see a conflict here to what you said earlier.

?

Examples would be:

1) Your walking down the street minding you own business and suddenly someone yells out “Hey you are F***ing ugly! You say “thank you” and keep on moving.

2) Someone approaches and asks for the time, your response would be “Sorry I can’t help you” and keep on moving.


3) Regardless of what he/they may ask “Can I have a couple of bucks for gas?” Can I bum a smoke?” ETC. All get “I’m sorry I can’t help you” and keep on moving.

1) Finally a strong assertive “Stop, don’t come any closer”.

Do not stop to talk to the person, be brief and to the point and move-on smartly. Be aware and give a look over your shoulder to be sure he isn’t following.

?

No even you say walk away and keep on walking. If you stop to tell someone I don't like what you are saying that is an open issue for debate and as we all know debates can turn into conflicts that lead to physical aggression.

If you are speaking in terms of your private residence with telling people what they can or canno0t say around you then I do not argue with that at all. However in public it's just like radio or T.V. if you don't like it change the channel. If someone is acting in a way you don't like but is not unlawful then you need to leave the area or premises. Complain to management or security if you think it is that much of a problem but if they are not physically assaulting you then don't even dignify their activities or verbal insults with a response unless you feel you are in danger. Even then telling someone else what to do is the exact opposite of altercation avoidance.And that is not what this thread is about.

[darrianation]

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[darrianation]

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[kingoftheforest]

Excellent points of conversation.

All the above posts have some great points and information. I think they should be read by everyone on this forum. read the information and formulate it into something that works for you in your mind and your areas of environment and experience. Training is a learning process and learning is done in the classroom (dojo) in the real world (oohhh dramatic color) and in your own mind. You can always go through scenarios in your own head as well as physically. Being mentally prepared is just as important as being physically prepared. Sometimes your best weapon is your mind.

Maybe I run with the wrong crowd but if I am in a situation where I can take some low life down, such as in an active shooter situation I am going to do so. My goal will be to sneak behind him and shoot him in the back but if he sees me I’ll shoot him in the front.

I just believe in “walking as a warrior”.

Of course I would only advocate this for folks who have the proper mindset and skills to do it…but I also advocate becoming proficient in those skills to the point where they can “walk as a warrior”.

Now if my family is with me my first responsibility will be to get them out and to a safe area so in this situation it would be different.

While I have to admit in situations like this given certain criteria I would be hard pressed not to step in and react. At the same time the advice given that if it is beyond your experience you should not try to be Rambo and play the hero. If the only way out is through the shooter or attacker than don't just curl up in a ball and hope for luck, but at the same time use your head and be a sneaky bastard. Gung ho is one way to go but it is also a good way "to go" permanently. Some good advice here guys in the above post. Family is more important than anything and they may rely and depend on you to be smart enough to protect them so don't be adrenaline junkies dead heroes are still dead people. Good points there Darrian.

This was just a jab at those areas. However, I do get a lot of folks complaining to me about this issue “Where I live I can’t buy or carry a gun.” I simply don’t know what to tell those folks other than move. I know many folks who have for that very reason. Of course that won’t work for everyone.

Well a gun may be good in some SD situations I feel there are many other alternatives to that. Knives are still legal in some areas as well as the new pepper foams, I don't really advocate pepper spray because you don't always have time to check which way the wind is blowing. Kubatons are also good SD devices as well the things like the Com Tech stinger. I don't feel that just because you cannot carry a firearm that you can't protect yourself.
I don't really want to get into another debate about some weapons being better than others because it is all a matter of personal preference. Firearms seems to be something you have trained a lot with and it would be ridiculous of me to tell you that you would be silly for using one. I just want to point out that there are options for people who don't want to or can't carry firearms, but that's a whole 'nother thread and debate we have seen and most likely will see again on the forums.


Like I said above some really good info in this thread so far. Any other ideas you guys have please put forth,everybody. Remember there are no stupid questions, only ignorant people who don't ask. If you don't ask or suggest things then your training can't grow and without growth it becomes stagnant and falls behind the learning curve. Only those who do nothing make no mistakes.