how old are you?

[Ghost]

So you enjoy watching formless female wrestling? Formless women wrestling...what is that, Oprah vs Rosie? Maybe it's just me but I'd prefer watching women with form wrestling.

LMAO, the fighting is formless! not the girls!

ah man what visions do you have in your head!

[jubaji]

How many people have you stopped cold with your hook? If boxing tools are so formidable, explain to me why matches go for 12 rounds? Also explain that whenever boxer get into fights without gloves, they break their hands.

So would you walk up to someone who outweighed you by 70lbs and was 6 inches taller than you and try that? I doubt it.



Anyone dumb enough to think that a muay thai clinch is a safe place to be in a street fight deserves to get stabbed over and over again until they realize that it isn't the ring. I know scenarios don't exist like that here on Defend, but again, if your opponent was bigger and taller than you would you try it? I doubt it, because non-TMA-ists usually avoid the altercation all together if the guy is out of their so-called weight class. How's that for reality?



It's been a rarity because its possible that the TMA-ists can't fight where you live. That possibility is strong. And being an Army ranger/Navy Seal/Green Beret/etc doesn't add any twists to the plot. They have specific skill sets, and are not the unbeatable fighters that Hollywood depicts them as. They are just usually in better than average shape.

Here's a better question: Why is it that when we hear about MMA, boxers and Muay Thai fighters getting into altercations OUTSIDE of the ring, they usually wind up stabbed, shot, beaten unconscious or dead? What happened to the hook to the liver or jaw? Where was the "shield" that the muay thai clinch provides? You keep playing cards with that fair fight mentality and you'll wind of folding every time.

Not too long ago last year a student of a former instructor of mine was accosted. He was attacked and sliced, but he quickly regrouped and he stabbed or rather defended himself from the man who attacked him and proceeded to slice up or rather defend himself from the attacker's friends. He didn't use muay thai or boxing .. I can tell you that.

You may know what competition is .. and that's about all you'll learn in the ring or on a BJJ mat ... But you probably have no concept of what violence with intent is, and I feel safe in saying that because you write as if you actually believe that a hook or a muay thai clinch are fight enders, when in fact they rarely are. And then you went on to say that the clinch enables you to fight multiple opponents! ... which just let's me know right off the back you're dealing in pure fantasy.

An untrained house wife with a butcher knife intent on protecting her children from an intruder is more dangerous than a man with 2 or 3 years of training in ring sports. A man in prison with a shank who is intent on not getting gang raped is more dangerous than 2 or 3 C.O.s with clubs and body armor. My point is that intent is more powerful than any technique most times, and if you haven't trained yourself to survive the reality of being attacked with intent and end it quickly, then you're kidding yourself, pal. If think you are gonna learn that in a ring, then you're completely delusional, and nothing short of something horrible happening to you or your family will open your eyes.

I ain't wishing it on ya though.

Needless to say...

[jubaji]

We never said we didn't like the site, only the pretenders and nut hugging sycophants like you that loiter it 24/7.

So with you and the two hairdressers we have the triumvirate (also known as the Three Stooges) who you 'approve' of, and everyone else who just ruins the whole experience for you. Too fucking bad, pUke. GTFO if you don't like it.

[jubaji]

lol ok but tell me if im too high or too low.

34

..................................

Too low.

[TTEscrima]

In the UK on Sky satellite tv there is a channel called the fight network.
They show half naked japanese girls wrestle each other to pull each others clothes off and play with each others bits.

They have training in fighting but the main requirement is that they are hot.

In fact, im watching it right now, id like to think that this is what bruce meant when he talked about martial arts being formless.

So you enjoy watching formless female wrestling? Formless women wrestling...what is that, Oprah vs Rosie? Maybe it's just me but I'd prefer watching women with form wrestling.

[Ghost]

In the UK on Sky satellite tv there is a channel called the fight network.
They show half naked japanese girls wrestle each other to pull each others clothes off and play with each others bits.

They have training in fighting but the main requirement is that they are hot.

In fact, im watching it right now, id like to think that this is what bruce meant when he talked about martial arts being formless.
This is what martial arts should be about.

[Tant01]

Simplify...

Dude, that's HARDLY what he meant when he wrote formless ... and the fact that you're trying to elaborate on this makes it all the more hilarious.

......

Yeah, yeah... "be like water"



How old are you?

[mellow]

Dude, that's HARDLY what he meant when he wrote formless ... and the fact that you're trying to elaborate on this makes it all the more hilarious.

Form, in the context in which Lee meant the term, is meant to connote imitation of movement within strict guidelines, not a set of actual forms like the ones found in karate. Form is the way you move in the execution of technique. Formless would be to not adhere to any rule that says that you must move like anyone else but yourself, and express your own interpretation of how a technique will work for you.

I can guarantee that Kareem Abdul Jabbar wasn't learning to fight the same way that Chuck Norris did. Two different body types with two different sets of capabilities.

Wing Chun advocates fixed positions and forms ... a lot of "If this then that" type of deal. That was the core of Lee's art and we all know this. But just because there were no kata didn't mean that he meant that as "formless". Hell, fencing doesn't have kata but the fencers have form. Boxing has no kata but boxers have form. You just don't get it because as I said before ... you're short sighted.

The message was simple: Don't conform to other people's way of moving because you may consequently sacrifice efficiency and your own natural rhythm just to mimic someone else's idea of style. Lee had been doing just that for years, and when he wrote that it was truly less about advice and more about what he found out about himself.

Formless = kata. Hahahahahahahahahaha ... that will never get old. That just goes to show that you don't have to be a mod like Brewer to be full of bull s**t.

You didn't have to tell me that you weren't an authority, Ole McDonald.

Well, he IS a moderator now. . . .

[Uke]

Well shit, I'm sorry but I was 12 years old. Cash cow? I paid $3 per class and nothing when I couldn't afford it. My coach now teaches Muay Thai btw.

Honestly, at 12 I wouldn't expect you to be proficient at self defense. And whatever your situation, if you weren't improving toward whatever end you wished to reach then you simply should have left the school.

Though the question arises as to how you would have tested your skill level without having to take your instructors word for it? In fact, how do you know how solid or lacking your skills are right now? Are you using sport competition to gauge how well you'd do on the streets?

You commented on what hasn't helped you on the street. Are you on the job? I don't often hear about women commenting on what has and hasn't worked for them on the street.

Either way, good luck with whatever you're doing and going to do.

[Uke]

You don't have to work your opponent with jabs if you're in a street fight. A hook to the liver or at the corner of the jaw can stop them cold. Same with a well-timed cross. Simple tools. Readily useable. Are they all encompassing? No but I don't think your average Joe needs to worry about much more unless he goes to riskier environments.

How many people have you stopped cold with your hook? If boxing tools are so formidable, explain to me why matches go for 12 rounds? Also explain that whenever boxer get into fights without gloves, they break their hands.

So would you walk up to someone who outweighed you by 70lbs and was 6 inches taller than you and try that? I doubt it.

The clinch isn't meant to hold your opponent in place and leave his base free to attack you. TMA ists do not always see this. Its used to control the opponents head and get him off balance, make him run into your attacks and use him (as a shield) if necessary - thus it can be used against multiple opponents.

Anyone dumb enough to think that a muay thai clinch is a safe place to be in a street fight deserves to get stabbed over and over again until they realize that it isn't the ring. I know scenarios don't exist like that here on Defend, but again, if your opponent was bigger and taller than you would you try it? I doubt it, because non-TMA-ists usually avoid the altercation all together if the guy is out of their so-called weight class. How's that for reality?

I'll say that you have to make an art alive, not necessarily add it to a boxing/muaythai base to make it work. Yes, I have seen TMA-ists spar against MMA guys and beat them, but its been such a rareity. The individual in question was a former Ranger; the invidual he beat was a semi-active amateur MMA ist.

It's been a rarity because its possible that the TMA-ists can't fight where you live. That possibility is strong. And being an Army ranger/Navy Seal/Green Beret/etc doesn't add any twists to the plot. They have specific skill sets, and are not the unbeatable fighters that Hollywood depicts them as. They are just usually in better than average shape.

Here's a better question: Why is it that when we hear about MMA, boxers and Muay Thai fighters getting into altercations OUTSIDE of the ring, they usually wind up stabbed, shot, beaten unconscious or dead? What happened to the hook to the liver or jaw? Where was the "shield" that the muay thai clinch provides? You keep playing cards with that fair fight mentality and you'll wind of folding every time.

Not too long ago last year a student of a former instructor of mine was accosted. He was attacked and sliced, but he quickly regrouped and he stabbed or rather defended himself from the man who attacked him and proceeded to slice up or rather defend himself from the attacker's friends. He didn't use muay thai or boxing .. I can tell you that.

You may know what competition is .. and that's about all you'll learn in the ring or on a BJJ mat ... But you probably have no concept of what violence with intent is, and I feel safe in saying that because you write as if you actually believe that a hook or a muay thai clinch are fight enders, when in fact they rarely are. And then you went on to say that the clinch enables you to fight multiple opponents! ... which just let's me know right off the back you're dealing in pure fantasy.

An untrained house wife with a butcher knife intent on protecting her children from an intruder is more dangerous than a man with 2 or 3 years of training in ring sports. A man in prison with a shank who is intent on not getting gang raped is more dangerous than 2 or 3 C.O.s with clubs and body armor. My point is that intent is more powerful than any technique most times, and if you haven't trained yourself to survive the reality of being attacked with intent and end it quickly, then you're kidding yourself, pal. If think you are gonna learn that in a ring, then you're completely delusional, and nothing short of something horrible happening to you or your family will open your eyes.

I ain't wishing it on ya though.

[Uke]

Dude, that's HARDLY what he meant when he wrote formless ... and the fact that you're trying to elaborate on this makes it all the more hilarious.

Form, in the context in which Lee meant the term, is meant to connote imitation of movement within strict guidelines, not a set of actual forms like the ones found in karate. Form is the way you move in the execution of technique. Formless would be to not adhere to any rule that says that you must move like anyone else but yourself, and express your own interpretation of how a technique will work for you.

I can guarantee that Kareem Abdul Jabbar wasn't learning to fight the same way that Chuck Norris did. Two different body types with two different sets of capabilities.

Wing Chun advocates fixed positions and forms ... a lot of "If this then that" type of deal. That was the core of Lee's art and we all know this. But just because there were no kata didn't mean that he meant that as "formless". Hell, fencing doesn't have kata but the fencers have form. Boxing has no kata but boxers have form. You just don't get it because as I said before ... you're short sighted.

The message was simple: Don't conform to other people's way of moving because you may consequently sacrifice efficiency and your own natural rhythm just to mimic someone else's idea of style. Lee had been doing just that for years, and when he wrote that it was truly less about advice and more about what he found out about himself.

Formless = kata. Hahahahahahahahahaha ... that will never get old. That just goes to show that you don't have to be a mod like Brewer to be full of bull s**t.

You didn't have to tell me that you weren't an authority, Ole McDonald.

[Tant01]

"authority"?

Here we go again... LMAO.



"Traditional martial arts training involves 'kata' or forms to be memorized by the practitioner of a specific martial art during the early levels. It's a series patterned of steps, punches and kicks that theoretically helps the martial artist internalize the various movements and thus be able to use them in combat effectively. The minor role of 'kata' in Jeet Kune Do martial arts training (although it's loosely patterned after Wing-Chun basics), is the most significant difference it has with other 'classical' forms of martial arts. Bruce Lee puts more emphasis on actual combat or sparring sessions as a way to prime the martial art practitioner to be an effective fighter. According to him, pre-arranged patterns and movements are inadequate in simulating the ever-changing circumstances in actual combat- lacking the dynamism and improvisation of sparring with another person".

You're right ... especially when we have JKD authorities like you who tell people that when Lee wrote "formless" he meant not having prearranged forms in the style. Bruce Lee was rolling more than his eyes in his grave when you wrote that nonsense.



Quote:
Q. What does "formless" mean Uke?


A. there is no KATA (or forms) in JKD.


It's THAT simple.





Its priceless gems like that which serve as comedy relief that give this place its own "little school bus" charm and keep us coming back mostly for laughs.



........

While there a number of (real) JKD AUTHORITIES that frequent this forum, I am NOT one of them. My personal expression of "JKD" is my own. It is based on SIMPLICITY.
I have never claimed to have anything more than a rudimentary working knowledge of the fundamentals.

"A static position leads to static fighting and thinking". Cassimore Magda

[treelizard]

Treelizard, it shouldn't have taken you 7 years to realize that the Wado was taking you nowhere. That isn't to say that there aren't any good wado karate instructors out there. Maybe yours just wasn't or was just a cash cow.

Well shit, I'm sorry but I was 12 years old. Cash cow? I paid $3 per class and nothing when I couldn't afford it. My coach now teaches Muay Thai btw.

[Tom Yum]

Boxing and Muay Thai are both dueling arts, and if you adopt them as your core art then you will become a dueler or at least adopt dueling habits, meaning someone who sticks and jabs to methodically wear down their opponent. This is the same case with BJJ although it isn't a dueling art, but a wrestling/competition art.

I wouldn't advise trying muay thai type clinching in a real fight either. I would never occupy both my hands while the person I'm fighting has two free one that I have absolutely no control of.

You don't have to work your opponent with jabs if you're in a street fight. A hook to the liver or at the corner of the jaw can stop them cold. Same with a well-timed cross. Simple tools. Readily useable. Are they all encompassing? No but I don't think your average Joe needs to worry about much more unless he goes to riskier environments.

The clinch isn't meant to hold your opponent in place and leave his base free to attack you. TMA ists do not always see this. Its used to control the opponents head and get him off balance, make him run into your attacks and use him (as a shield) if necessary - thus it can be used against multiple opponents.

So in the end, I think you should really re-examine the notion that "Anything works if you add it to alive arts like BJJ, Muay Thai or boxing". Anything can work, but it boils down to how long it takes for you to become proficient and how many chances you take in order to just defend yourself. Try adding capoeira or wushu to muay thai and you'll quickly see exactly what I mean. You'll quickly find out that adding anything to muay thai, boxing or BJJ doesn't just work, and those who have made it work took many years to just become functional let alone masterful.

Good luck.

I'll say that you have to make an art alive, not necessarily add it to a boxing/muaythai base to make it work. Yes, I have seen TMA-ists spar against MMA guys and beat them, but its been such a rareity. The individual in question was a former Ranger; the invidual he beat was a semi-active amateur MMA ist.

[Ghost]

Uke, what would you recommend adding to muay thai as a dirty fighting system that would mix easily wiht it.