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  • #16
    Wow, you really have it in for him and it seems almost personal! Why? Interesting, you offer up a bunch of forum posts as evidence? Volume doesn’t somehow transform crap into something better and legit. Sorry, but crap is crap regardless of the amount and all you have done is create a big steamy pile of it. That’s your case,lol? You’re joking right? The problem is, there is not a well known instructor out there that hasn’t been trashed somewhere on forums on the internet. In fact, Dan Inosanto has been trashed on this very forum! His legacy challenged by one well known PHD author, Jerry Beasley. Is that really evidence? Ok, we have on one hand a bunch of forum posts and on the other hand we have Jim Wagner’s website with documentation. Actual pictures of Wagner as a police officer and pictures training GSG-9,etc… Documentation which you and your forum posters claim are smoke and mirrors, as if it is some kind of conspiracy created by Jim Wagner and Black Belt magazine. In one of the post you referenced, the person tries to explain how Wagner has managed to pull off this scam stating Wagner counts on former employers to keep their mouth shut. Really,lol? The Costa Mesa police force is also part of this conspiracy? Falsely claiming to be or have been a police officer is a serious offense in the USA, so why hasn’t there been legal action? He has taught hundreds upon hundreds of people, surely one of these people would have sued him because they were trained under a false pretence? Again, I and any reasonable person needs more than some forum post as evidence; I would need to see that actual legal documentation.


    • #17
      I think you’ve already answered you own question as to why many unfortunate citizens have not complained about Wagner yet:

      1. They have spent thousands investing into his lies unknowingly and feel foolish as a result
      2. They are baffled by his ability to write a thousand word diatribe when he could have cleared the whole thing up with one sentence

      But...many are now coming forward with the inception of because they are realizing that they have been duped.

      You obviously have invested into JW and I am truly sorry for you.

      Jeff Clancy is a present DEA federal agent (not a former as written on Wagner’s site). He has written many of the posts on the JW Reader list. Many of the people uncovering these truths are former cops, lawyers and real former special operations operatives. Conspiracy by the CMPD? I think not as several former SWAT team members have already given testimonial that Wagner was never on a frontline SWAT team as he suggests and never taught SWAT team tactics to the CMPD SWAT team.

      Your analogy about the Beasly/Inosanto feud doesn’t cut it related to this case. That’s just politics. In the case of JW it is stolen valour. Before the uncovered his 8-month military charade, his website claimed extensive military service and years of special ops experience, then SWAT, the diplomatic bodyguard, then counter terrorist flying 140 counter terrorist missions and on and on.

      This information is for everybody to check out and decide, just like the way Fox News says, “We report the news and you then decide.” The original poster was concerned about the antics of guys like Wagner and Moni Aizik and asked the question. I just provided some answers.


      • #18
        You aren’t doing yourself any favors defending crap like that, but that’s your choice. I personally choose not to support unsubstantiated character assassinations. And yes, forum posts without clear documentation are unsubstantiated regardless of the author. Dismissing the attack on Inosanto as just politics is convenient. If posting that Inosanto had misrepresented his teaching status and basically calling him a liar is mere politics then the garbage posted on that anti Jim Wagner site fits the same description. The Inosanto reference was just one instance and I could fill this thread with links to posts that trash any well known instructor. Your rational that students are too ashamed to take legal action really doesn’t make any sense at all. If I were presented with evidence, I wouldn’t hesitate to take legal action against an Instructor that had misrepresented his credentials. Yes, being duped makes people ashamed, but it also makes them angry.


        • #19
          This just in from Hock...

          Jim Wagner Fact File

          * Despite his early ads, lectures and claims, Wagner did only 8 months in the Army as a radio operator. He begged a congressman to get him out.

          * Wagner was forced out of the Costa Mesa Police over a use-of-force complaint. he wormed himself into a volunteer, unpaid, reserve position, then left.

          * Wagner worked for and with a group of vets in the 1990s called HSS International, who actually got the training gigs that he claims he alone got. These courses were actually taught by these vets. He attended or helped out. He deceives customers by using these HSS group photos for all his advertising of teaching the “world’s elite.”

          * Wagner was fired from HSS for a Series of thefts. A judge in a California court confirmed this.

          * Wagner was never on any SWAT team as an operator, just as office, support help in Costa Mesa police - slickly called a SWAT “Command Post.” Wagner failed the SWAT PT test. He admitted this for a while, then changed that story and suddenly in April, 2010? Jim Wagner said he passed another test and was a full-fledged SWAT team member. I now have documents from Costa Mesa P.D. that declare he was not, as well as a memo from HIM where he complained about his surprise/sudden firing from this support job and complained about being replaced by a totally untrained, unarmed park ranger. Wagner has never attended the California State Peace Officer Standards and Training SWAT school, a requirement for a SWAT operator. Attorney Sam Browning has signed statements about this and I have been told by numerous prior SWAT officers about this.

          * Wagner was forced to leave the Orange County SO unpaid, volunteer reserves for a series of indiscretions, mistakes and false claims about being the Sheriff's bodyguard, etc.

          * Wagner did about 8 months as an Air Marshal and that includes his schooling. He was forced to leave over a forgery investigation, causing a hurry-up resignation letter after 8 months employment. (I have these documents - to include a Congressman Christopher Cox letter) Wagner has already lied about this publicly, numerous times.

          * From these air marshal flights that he first called uneventful, he later advertised them as a mysterious “140 counter-terrorism missions.” Wagner uses this short, "rookie" background through Black Belt Magazine to be called a "post, 9-11 counter terrorism expert."

          * Wagner uses the “I resigned” cover story to conceal his lifelong professional mistakes at Costa Mesa, Orange County and the Federal Air Marshals. All of which were used to con customers into thinking he was a seasoned, experienced, unblemished vet and expert. He is in effect, a house of cards, with another house of cards built on top.

          * Wagner is currently a California state reservist, one of the few branches that will never go to war (nice choice super hero!). But, he was quick to play dress up and get on the cover of Black Belt Magazine in his "dramatic combat uniform" (his words).


          • #20
            Wow! You made a bunch of posts with asterisks before each paragraph. I still say PROVE IT! Your statements have been contradicted by the Costa Mesa Police Dept who verifies that Wagner left in good standing. I have noticed that you have been on this smear campaign all over the internet making similar posts on various forums. The site you mentioned is obviously created by a jealous competitor of Wagner’s. That site takes email responses from Wagner and edits them with sarcasm and deletes part of his response. And now on top of it the sites says they are blocking Wagner’s IP address so he can no longer respond to their attacks. Yeah, that’s fair and balanced, lol! A real investigator looking for the truth would never approach it like that. Only someone on a smear campaign would resort to such low tactics. It’s so sad the world of martial arts has such dirty politics in it. I would recommend that you not worry so much about Wagner and spend so much time on all the various forums you post on. Maybe a better use of your energy is spending more time on the mat!


            • #21
              Hows that old saying go Joe? something about leading a horse to water...


              • #22
                Hey Kirby

                Go talk to Les Gogherty of CMPD. Do some investigation on your own for people you blindly hook up with.


                • #23
                  And I'm glad Defend is not Bullshido.

                  While I like to know who is phoney and who is not, those at Bullshido have dismissed basically every style of MA and self defence system out there and are so paranoid at every instructor that, according to them, no-one can be trusted to be any good.

                  Who are the people behind Bullshido anyway??? The impression that I get is they are a bunch of MMA/BJJ wankers with a few years experience and lifetimes worth of opinions.

                  It's one thing to keep your training and the people who instruct honest and ensure a minimum standard is met, but it's another all together when you rip everyone off so much that you end up ripping off yourself.

                  Thanks Tant01!


                  • #24
                    Check this site out as well. It talks about Jim Wagner and other fake instructors. Hey Joe some people can't understand they got ripped off.

                    Exposing fake Israeli self-defense instructors..


                    • #25
                      I hear you black knife! Check out this updated thread on Hock's talk forum- very informative:

                      The Jim Wagner 13 Questions



                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Joe Hubbard View Post
                        I hear you black knife! Check out this updated thread on Hock's talk forum- very informative:

                        The Jim Wagner 13 Questions

                        I knew this guy was a clown the first time I read one of his articles in Black Belt magazine. No fucking training and he is doing seminars....what a joke!


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by black knife View Post
                          I knew this guy was a clown the first time I read one of his articles in Black Belt magazine. No fucking training and he is doing seminars....what a joke!
                          I'd go as far as to say this entire topic is a joke. This site has really declined.

                          But not by much!