Starting a New School

[bvermillion]

Ok first Excessive I understand exactly what you are saying but then again I am single and nobody to support so the money will be plenty for me. I told you I was open to being proved wrong so I dont mind.Oh and by the way my Uncle makes roughly 76K a year in the Navy and he is enlisted but I realize that isn't typical. He has been in for close to 30 yrs and was a seal for 12. He is encharge of thousands of souldiers stationed out of the great lakes and is a Command Master Chief. But like i said before his type is rare. And one more thing I am not qualified for those other jobs you listed either.


Ok now Ipon. I fully understand where you are coming from I can fully admit that I am not mature enough to open a martial arts school right now thats why I am considering the military. Oh and by the way by military let me be specific I know i said army but i was saying that as a generalization. I my intentions are to go in the air force as an Air Police which is the same thing as an MP. Thanks for everyones advice I am pretty sure I am going to enlist. I have a meeting with the recruiter saturday I am probably going to enlist then. If I do I will go to basic in august. I am hoping to continue my training through the ATA but i dont know if i will get stationed an ATA school. But If not I still plan on continuing my martial arts training in whatever is available.

[pmh1nic]

I don't no what the legal requirements are with respect to age but based on what I know about applying for loans in general at nineteen it might be very difficult to get a SBL without a co-signer. It's going to require (as someone else mentioned) a comprehensive business plan that includes the details regarding start-up cost and operating expenses, the size of the market in your area for the service you are selling, your plan on reaching that market, some idea of how long it's going to take to break-even and reach profitability, etc., etc.

A few additional things to ponder:

1. Are you at all familiar with business accounting, the requirements for incorporation, federal, state and local tax requirements, liability insurance, etc., etc., etc.

2. Do you enjoy teaching kids? A large part of the income for many MA schools comes from kid's classes.

3. Don't judge the market for your services based on how many people have told you they'll join your classes once you open your school. Martial arts training is a discipline and dedicate students are few and far between.

If you have the opportunity to learn the business (not just martial art technique but the actual running of the business side of the business) from someone with experience before making any financial investment take advantage of the opportunity. The rewards probably won't be financial in the beginning but the knowledge that you gain and can use later can save you a whole lot of hardships and headaches down the road when you're in a better position to venture out on your own.

[bodhisattva]

"March like sheep to the sound of the war drums"

Do you guys ever TALK to veterans that saw combat?

Do you guys even pay much attention to the news?

The veterans that are in Iraq now are NOT fighting for their country. They are fighting for some Old Men and their Money.

Veterans have always found that out when they got into combat. They find out, very quickly, that the men in control don't CARE about them. That the men in control will (and have many times) happily give suicidal orders to accomplish a very small win.

Often when no win is even possible.

"The general sat while the lines on the map moved from side to side"

Do you understand what those words mean?

Those words mean you will be a chess piece. And when you are sacrificed for a war that cannot be won, who will hug your mother at christmas? No one. And she will beat herself in the head with her own hands while she wails and wails and wails because her child is dead.

THINK man. THINK. You have your own self. That self is not owned. It does not have to sacrifice itself so some old guy who has more than he can use, can have more.

If men with guns march down our streets to kill us, I will be the FIRST with a hunting rifle firing down upon them.

But I won't go off to another country to fight a war that has NOTHING to do with the safety and welfare of my family.

Please think about it. All life is beautiful, all beings are beautiful.

The old men don't need more money.

[Jeremy Lobdell]

"March like sheep to the sound of the war drums"

Do you guys ever TALK to veterans that saw combat?

Do you guys even pay much attention to the news?

The veterans that are in Iraq now are NOT fighting for their country. They are fighting for some Old Men and their Money.

Veterans have always found that out when they got into combat. They find out, very quickly, that the men in control don't CARE about them. That the men in control will (and have many times) happily give suicidal orders to accomplish a very small win.

Often when no win is even possible.

"The general sat while the lines on the map moved from side to side"

Do you understand what those words mean?

Those words mean you will be a chess piece. And when you are sacrificed for a war that cannot be won, who will hug your mother at christmas? No one. And she will beat herself in the head with her own hands while she wails and wails and wails because her child is dead.

THINK man. THINK. You have your own self. That self is not owned. It does not have to sacrifice itself so some old guy who has more than he can use, can have more.

If men with guns march down our streets to kill us, I will be the FIRST with a hunting rifle firing down upon them.

But I won't go off to another country to fight a war that has NOTHING to do with the safety and welfare of my family.

Please think about it. All life is beautiful, all beings are beautiful.

The old men don't need more money.

You are entitled to your opinion and playing devils advocate definitely serves an important purpose. Isn't it great that someone other than you chose to fight so you can enjoy the freedom to say and believe as you wish.
I am (as many other people on this forum are) a combat veteran. I never fought for "Some Old Men and Their Money". I fought to protect the guy next to me, and he fought to protect me.
You are very lucky that you have been able to separate yourself from all the conflict in the world to the point that you don't feel the need to pick up your rifle. Others are not so lucky.
I applaud anyone who chooses to serve their country. No soldier gets to dictate policy for their country or decide when to serve and when to take time off if things start to go bad. They make a commitment for a certain period of time, and are compensated far beyond money for their efforts.
When discussing politics, it is very hard to find even two people who agree on everything. If you agree with the governments decision to invade Iraq or not, it's important to maintain support for the soldiers (and their families) that have made a personal choice to serve our country. That decision (to serve) is not for everyone, but to belittle their sacrafices or undermine their achievements and commitment to serve is a horrible thing to do, in my opinion.
Mahalo, Jeremy

[Jeremy Lobdell]

While I agree with excessiveforce that the amount of base pay recieved in the military is low. It would be nice if the annual pay raises were greater. It is 3.5% starting Jan. 1st. There are people in poor finantial shape, as in the civilian world, but there are just as many that are doing well and even thriving finantially in the military. Most of the benefits go beyond taxable income. I live in Military housing. This is free to me and my family. There are no utility bills at all, electric, water, and trash is free of charge. To rent a comparable place in town would run close to $3,000 a month, not including utilities or the 3 million dollar view I have out my back yard.
I'm sorry to hear about the death of one of your clients. My experiences with Navy medical have been great. It was the Naval Hospital at GITMO and then at Portsmouth that saved my leg from amputation. Just over a year later, I was broadsided by a truck while driving my motorcycle. The first shoulder repair (bankar procedure) was botched so bad by the civilian hospital ( Norfolk Sentara) that I almost lost my arm. It was the Orthapedic surgens at Portsmouth Naval that replaced the joint ( at that time the 6th replacement done in the US). If it wasn't for their skill and efforts, my arm would of been amputated inside the armpit, allowing no chance of being fitted with a prostetic.
Mahalo, Jeremy

[bodhisattva]

"Isn't it great that someone other than you chose to fight so you can enjoy the freedom to say and believe as you wish."

I'm sorry. Who is trying to take my freedom away in this war? Oh yes! Saddam Hussein.. Isn't it weird? I don't ever recall him trying to take away my freedom.

In fact, the only war I can think of where someone tried to directly take away american freedoms was..the revolutionary war? Before there was a USA?

I DO however see my own government taking freedoms away VERY rapidly under the standard excuse of "keeping me safe and dumb".

I don't tend to think removing our freedoms and keeping people dumb is really the kind of "safety" I'm looking for..

"If you agree with the governments decision to invade Iraq or not, it's important to maintain support for the soldiers (and their families) that have made a personal choice to serve our country."

They aren't serving their country, as their country isn't yet in danger.

Most of them are in the military because they need money for school..they need the benefits, and the (many) who joined from very poor families need the FOOD.

Most of them (98%, I'd guess) would have NEVER joined if they thought they were going into combat.

And those who wanted combat, well, they had NO idea what combat was. At all.

We aren't even fighting the guys who attacked us on our own land:
Our towers were knocked down by a WHOLE DIFFERENT GROUP of people - Osama Bin Laden's people, as I hear it.. Going to war with Hussein over the 9/11 events is like me bombing Canada because of something Mexico did.

They are serving corporations. The very same corporations that are outsourcing all of the labor. The very same corporations that are bankrupting our nation.

They are serving old men, and their money. They are serving the federal reserve, which is neither federal, nor does it have any reserve.

--

"I applaud anyone who chooses to serve their country. "

I don't applaud anyone who is willing to take a life on a "need to know basis".
And all soldiers take life, and they do it on a need-to-know basis. They don't get to know all of the facts, yet they are still willing to kill.

That is a sad truth.

--

I can't relate with psychopaths. If I ever kill, it will be on a need-only basis, and not because my tv said some scary stuff to me.. most of which was later proven totally false.

I wish more people realized that killing the civilians of other nations does NOTHING to the offending government of that nation, and everything to the civilians.. most of whom really just wanted to eat, crap and screw like the rest of us.

And if they were brainwashed, it really isn't their fault. Just like it isn't the fault of the people of this nation that they are brainwashed.

--

Jeremy, it may seem I'm trying to anger you, but I'm truly not. Your another person, and I love you for sharing. These are my thoughts on the matter, and I have respect for you and your ideas. I'd be happy to hear what you have to say to this. I don't expect us to agree. I do expect to learn your point of view.


Regards.

[eXcessiveForce]

unfortunately the U.S. does not exist in a bubble separated from the rest of the world.

Not only must we preserve our freedom but we must also preserve our way of life. This means eliminating threats sometimes in advance of them actually doing anything.

It also means creating situations where others can help us achieve our goals.

Cheap oil means the U.S. economy remains strong. Free Iraq means those people can eventually become trading partners and maybe even buy our goods. A democratic Iraq can effect the countries around it and change viewpoints over time.

This doesn't happen overnight but It can happen.

Many soldiers will go into combat because it is what they consider their duty. Realize in todays world your hunting rifle will have little effect on a force capable of entering the U.S.

See the bigger picture and leave the propaganda at the door.

Also if it was true that killing civilians has no effect on the government then we would still be at war with Japan. But when you vaporize two cities it makes a statement that is hard for the government to ignore. Also when govenments see other governments toppled in less that 1 month it starts to make the question whether they really want that for themselves.

Amazing after afganistan and Iraq that Lybia decided to be friendly, and Pakistan, and even Iran for awhile. It even got North Korea concerned enough to start dealing again.

Peace through High Tech intimidation.

[bodhisattva]

I simply can't agree, but I sure appreciate the time you took to type it all out.

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Bohdi, there is no anger here at all, by either of us. We both feel strongly about our opinions, and should be able to debate them in an educated and respectful manner. I value your opinion and the intelligent way you post it. The only fault I find in your logic is that you seem to feel that there was-is no immediate threat to the US or our allies by Iraq. Do you really think that every peice of intel that has been gathered by the intelligence community is directly relayed to the news media so that CNN can report it? Isn't it possible that the decision to invade was made based on info. that the general public doesn't and shouldn't know? Unfortunately, "the bad guys" watch CNN too. No one person made the decision to go into Iraq. It was proposed by the President, and supported by congress.
Do you agree with the U.S.'s decision to go to war with Germany during WW2? They didn't attack us, Japan did. Perhapse if we had gotten involved sooner, a lot more lives would have been saved at the gas chambers. This is directly related to Iraq. Anyone who was over there for Desert Storm probably felt as helpless as I did watching Sadam's forces slaughter his own people, the Kurds. They thought we were there to help them, but the govt. decided not to get involved in the internal struggle of their country, and they were gunned down as soon as we left the area.
I'm not sure where your knowledge of the average soldier or military unit comes from, but it doesn't seem very educated, or at least, is biased and skewed.
The percentage of the military that will actually see combat and be in the position to have to take someone's life is very, very small. First, there is Special Forces from all the branches, which is completely voluntary and the screening process is exhaustive to weed out any "psycopaths". The next would be the Marines, and even there, it's not all infantry. Following them are the Army, and only 11b, the infantry. The rest of the US military, including all the non sf from the Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, and the hundreds of non infantry MOS's in the Army will never see combat. They aren't even issued weapons in the way that you think they are.
As far as the specific soldiers that are seeing combat, they aren't doing sweep and clear opperations. They aren't even allowed to fire until a specific set of conditions have happened. This set of conditions has been set up following the Geneva Convention.
Speaking from personal experience, my wife has been deployed to Afganistan twice and to Iraq once in the last 3+ years. She has never even seen combat, let alone had to fire her weapon. This is the life for the average soldier. Unfortunately only Military newspapers cover stories about them. It must not be glamourous enough for the regular media to cover these kind of stories, regular americans serving their country without going Rambo on anything that moves.
She enlisted prior to Sept. 11th, not because we were poor and needed food, or for any of the other reasons you listed. Being secure in a career and being able to retire in 20 years, along with the other benefits that the military provide is an excellent oppertunity. She had already spent close to 10 years in the civilian work force, and has seen what it has to offer. We wouldn't be living in Hawaii right now if it wasn't for her decision ( and her families support ) to enlist. Even after all the conflict in Iraq and Afganistan started and with her being deployed to both places, she could of gotten out after her 4 years was up, but instead chose to re-enlist.

Bohdi- If we were debating any other point, especially about martial arts and training, we would be in complete agreement. We just have to disagree when it comes to this topic. It doesn't diminish my respect for you at all. We just view this differently. I know that serving my country was the right choice for me, my wife, and the countless number of people I've been friends with, taught, and learned from over the better part of the last 20 years. If you choose to be a contientious objector, that is your right. There are a lot of other countries in the world where your service in the military would be mandatory, Isreal and Cuba to name a few. Lucky for you, you live in the good old US of A. It's not perfect, but if you have traveled any where as much as I have to other countries, you would have a new found appreciation for what we have here.
Mahalo, Jeremy

[bodhisattva]

There was a time when I believed exactly as you. I did not have your experiences, but I believed exactly what you believe about our country.

I just don't believe that way anymore.

I pay a lot of attention to what the television tells me. I no longer trust a word of it as a result.

I just can't trust media, period, anymore.

What I pay attention to, in the media, is how often the stories change. I pay attention to exactly how the stories change over time. I pay attention to what kind of things they are telling me.

I don't draw a lot of strong conclusions from it. But the one conclusion I draw very strongly from all of it is that the tv is definitely not my friend. It never has been.

I still watch it a lot. Dude, I haven't gone loonie, right? But I've grown to realize that this tv is like a friend who is always, in some hidden way, horribly negative, or lying outright..or something else just as useless to me.

And I can't tell what the truth is, only that the stories are always changing.

I notice how our media tends to report things. I pay a lot of attention to it. It's pretty unnerving, in my opinion.

In a sense, I see a lot of conspiracy. I think I do, anyway - I really don't know. I'm not one of those wack jobs that thinks he understands what he's seeing. For example: although I personally can't stand Bush, I'd also not be very surprised at all if he turned out to secretly be this SUPER guy, and he was actually doing everything I'd do in his shoes. I would say "It's not like I thought it possible to know anything about what is really going on anyway." and quickly and easily accept it.

You can see how such a mentality would make it difficult for me to feel good about invading another nation on a need to know basis. If I don't know everything about it, how can I say I agree with it? And how can I say it agrees with the ideas of my nation? I can't. Because I don't know. I just have a gun, and eventually, some people shooting at me. Then I'll kill them. But I won't ever truly know why I did it.

I will only know what the official reason was.

Generally, with time, history shows soldiers that their real reason for being in that city or village slaughtering people outside of their own homes was totally different from the story they were given.

But this is my take on it, that's all. This is just from my experience.

And I have no military experience - I never entered due to the reasons stated above.

But you have the experience, Jeremy, not me. And it sounds like that experience has somehow been enriching. That's not lost on me. I appreciate you sharing that experience - so I can consider it.

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Bohdi, just because you haven't served in the military, doesn't mean that your points aren't valid. I don't agree with everything you say, as you don't agree with everything I say, but I will always defend your right to say and believe as you see fit.
I am not a fan of our current President, and question some of his decisions, as most of the current military does. Soldiers have no greater say in who is voted into office than anyone else. We each only get one vote, and I've found that privately, some of the most senior and highly educated soldiers in the military question his decisions as well. In the last election, local military voting records ( here on Oahu ) show that the voting military supported Kerry by almost 80%. The biggest problem for most of them is the resignation of Colin Powell. Out of all of Bush's advisors, he's the one person who would be the greatest source of knowledge, having served as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and was the highest ranking person in uniform during Desert Storm. Bush's continued choice of surrounding himself with people who only see things as he does is definitely cause for concern. I personally feel Bush waited to long to go back in, allowing the situation to get too far out of control before taking logical steps to remedy it. If you see a fire, you don't sit back and wait until it's burning out of control before you try to put it out, you go after it while it's still small and easier to extinguish.
As far as the media goes, it's a mixed bag at best. I watch the news, and read newspapers ( both military and civilian ) every day. Keeping an open mind and being skeptical or questioning what is reported seems pretty logical to me. I find it ironic that on the day that the Navy Petty officer refused to board his deploying ship in protest over the war ( which was picked up nationally and was covered on every national news broadcast) a Marine Sgt. was nominated for the Congressional Medal of Honor for saving the lives of his unit. No media group ( outside of the military ) chose to do a story about the Sgt.'s sacrafice, even though the story was available to them, and as "Objective" journalists, it is their responsibility to cover all sides without bias or prejudice.
I hope that Bush is basing his decisions on information that I or anyone else on this forum doesn't have access to. The news seems to want to depict him as a warmonger. They also called his dad a wimp, but George Bush senior wasn't a career politition, before he was vice-president, he was the director of the CIA. They even named their building after him. I doubt a "wimp" would have the stones to run that kind of agency.
As always, I enjoy conversating with you and hope to learn from your experiences.
Ultimately, the US invaided Iraq because they failed to follow through with the treaty that they signed after Desert Storm. The media made a huge deal about not finding weapons of mass destruction, but just turning away the NATO inspectors once is grounds for insertion of troops, let alone the dozens of times they did it over the cource of 8 years.
And once again, I must state that soldiers aren't going around slaughtering innocent people outside their homes. The majority of Iraqies are glad that Saddam is gone and the majority of the work being done is humanitarian aid. The few militant groups that are attacking our soldiers in Iraq aren't even Iraqie citizens. They are from Iran, Lybia, Jordan, Syria, and other arab countries that are set on pushing their own agenda. They are the ones that have no regard for human life, not our soldiers. Kind of fits the definition of a suicide bomber. Not alot of pinpoint accuracy in that kind of attack.
I look forward to hearing back from you on this thread, my friend. I'm not trying to change your opinion of things, only relate mine.
Mahalo, Jeremy

[bodhisattva]

Great post, and thanks.

"Soldiers have no greater say in who is voted into office than anyone else. We each only get one vote, and I've found that privately, some of the most senior and highly educated soldiers in the military question his decisions as well."

That's why I won't be a soldier. I have no say over who is going to command my gun. I have no say over why I'm doing it.

"If you see a fire, you don't sit back and wait until it's burning out of control before you try to put it out,"

Unless you have a personal agenda that has nothing to do with what your country wants, and everything to do with personal gain. Then you might just let that bastard burn and burn a while.. And it would seem very illogical to men like yourself, who are soldiers, and know that is an odd way to fix a problem.

""Objective" journalists, it is their responsibility to cover all sides without bias or prejudice."

The media is owned by the rich. No journalist can be objective in his reporting.. He has to report what he's allowed to report, and nothing else. Even if its total falsehood.

I don't trust the media when it's singing my song, and I don't trust the media when it isn't. I had to realize I couldn't trust it. It's been shown too many times before.


"And once again, I must state that soldiers aren't going around slaughtering innocent people outside their homes. "

Too my knowledge, every war that has ever been fought has involved plenty of rape, pillaging, torture and murder. As far as I know, that is what war has always been. All through out history, soldiers have murdered, raped and pillaged. That's my understanding.

But even if those standard war experiences were somehow not happenning this once, then they are still horribly violating people. I saw people with their hands tied behind their backs while soldiers searched through their house. How would you feel when some 20 year old punk with gun and boots was going through YOUR woman's panty drawer, pulling the items, snickering as he shows them to his friends..perhaps finds her vibrator..

These things.. They seem small. But they ARE the human spirit. When soldiers showed up at my house, I would probably die that day.

I lose a lot of jobs too. People can't just let others walk on them. In my opinion. It's a duty to the rest of us..if I let someone walk on my rights, they will walk on yours tomorrow, and by then, we're all screwed. I dunno. They would search my house with their heel on my throat. Probably no other way (and I'm sure that's what would happen, too).

I really don't think our nation has a right to search the houses of civilians of another nation. I don't think our nation has the right to search the houses of civilians of our nation, either. But both happen. And will happen much more with the patriot act in place.

I think the patriot act is such a horrible, obvious SHITTING on the constitution.

I dunno. I'm obviously biased, too.

Can you explain how Saddam violating the NATO treaty is a direct threat on my own freedom?

To my knowledge, the US to this day is harboring nuclear weapons, and creating more. So why should we stop other nations? If its merely to intimidate and stay in control, then I think its horrible.

Our leadership makes the world far too complex. We work too hard, too long, and see too little for it. Most of us grow up, and have kids, and never see those kids. And the television raises them, the school system raises them, and they never get our true parenting. The parenting people need. The love people need. My teachers were no substitute for parents.

I am very unhappy with leadership in general. Taht is all. I see so many wrongs on a daily basis that people just accept.

So that is why I have this odd, "I hate war and killing" mindset, that humans generally don't understand. Trust me, if someone gives me a reason, I am no coward, I come out of my hole and stand up to whatever greyface is trying to scare me today.

I want humans to start coming out of their holes and refusing to fight. That's all. I want mothers to quit sending their children overseas. I want fathers to tell their children the truth about war.

But my truth is different from your truth.

I just can't relate with killing someone in a situation which isn't personal, and in which one doesn't have all of the facts. Your explanations are great, but they don't get me past that. If I gave you a gun, and said "It's important for our survival that you kill that guy across the street..but I can't tell you everything about it..you just hae to do it, or he could hurt us" you would consider me crazy.

And that is how our wars are fought. And while it may be acceptable to others, I don't serve as gunman for anyone's power or money.

I just don't see my government caring about us. I just don't see it. And so I don't know why people defend our government anymore?

It would be comforting to see the world from your perspective. But I have found that comfort is often no indicator of truth. Truth is often really scary.

I'm not being a smartass, or condescending to you. I hope none of this appears that way.

Regards

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Bodhi- I understand all your concerns, and even share a few myself. I think we see things differently. We have two choices as a nation. We can either close ourselves off to the rest of the world, as China did, or be an active participant in it. The people we are fighting against in Iraq and Afganistan aren't the military from either country, they are terrorists. They have nothing to do with the governments of these countries, but are people from the groups that are responsible for attacking us. They did this first, with the Sept. 11th attacks, and prior to that with the bombing of the USS Cole and the bombings at our Embasseys in Africa.
Unfortunately American soldiers are forced to operate under orders and rules that the enemy doesn't follow. If we chose to lower ourselves to their level, we could of taken Iraq out without suffering one American casualty. There isn't one square inch of desert over there that is out of range from our Aegis class weapons system, sitting safely aboard our Naval ships.
As far as Saddam violating the treaty affecting us, it goes back to the idea of being part of a global community. This treaty was with NATO, not the US. If you remember, it was Saddam who invaded Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. We were a part of the NATO force that went in to defend our allies, as they are a part of NATO. Part of the treaty that Saddam signed included giving NATO inspectors complete and total access to any weapon facilities he has. It is to ensure that he is no longer making chemical weapons or that the range on his missles are short enough that he can't fire them into Saudia Arabia and Kuwait, like he did in 1991. His constant refusal to follow through on his word finally forced our hand, as we redeployed troops to Iraq. This part of the war has been over for a long time, and resulted in less that 5% of the casulties that have been taken in Iraq by US forces. With Saddam having been removed from power, there is a vacume that is being filled by terrorists from other countries. The only purposes we are serving by staying in Iraq is to allow the people of Iraq to hold free and democratic elections. We aren't putting someone else in power over there. We're trying to make it safe for them, and as I stated before, the VAST MAJORITY of Iraqies are glad that Saddam is gone and look forward to being able to decide who there new leader will be, for many this is the first time in their lives that this will happen.
We are also giving humanitarian aid to a people that sorely need it.
As you have stated before, you have never served in the military. This is your right, but if you ever witnessed some of the things that I have, perhapse your views would change. Sitting back helpless and watching a lunatic commit wholesale genecide against his own people is one of the worst things I've ever had to endure. The only reason we didn't take Saddam out during Desert Storm was to advoid the problems we are now facing over there. I hold him directly responsible for the loss of life that is going on right now. If he would of kept his word, he would still be in power, and the vacume that was created by his absence wouldn't be there.
I'm not sure where you are getting your info. about the entering of homes in Iraq. No one is going through anyones "panty drawer". Your understanding of warfare is also incorrect. There is no rape and pillaging going on my our forces. I understand that you have no knowledge whatsoever of the US military, but your statements are completely false. Fortunately we as a society have evolved beyond that point. There are a few individuals that lack a consience or common sence, but that can be said of people in any other segment of society as well. Why would you judge the entire military by the actions of a few morons, who should be punished and I hope they get everything they deserve. Much of the actions of the MP's that were guarding prisoners and commiting those horrible acts comes from frustration. I don't expect you to understand that, you've never been in their shoes. I'm not justifying what they did, they should have to endure the same torture that they dished out, or at least, rot in Levinworth for the rest of their lives where, guess what, they will probably get a lot worse .
I also don't understand how you don't see the actions and problems of the rest of the world as affecting you. As far as I'm concerned, the threat that you can't see is far more dangerous than the one that's right in front of your face.

In life, everything comes down to one simple decision, Fight, F**k, or Hit the Fence. Your choice is obviously to hit the fence. I applaud this, as, if everyone did this, there would be no war or of the other major problems that affect the world. Unfortunately not everyone is as enlightened as you. I really wish they were. The world would be a much better place.
Good luck to you, my friend, in all your endeavors. I wish you only the best!
Mahalo, Jeremy

[HtTKar]

It's true, you cant trust most media. I would say the only media sources to be trusted are public airways. Public airways have nothing to earn but members. They profit off of providing real news. CNN is a very respected news agency, but face it they're in it for the money. War makes the news companies money. People tune in and watch, the news companies get paid for the commercials. These companies put spins on stories to create more revenue. The easiest way to do this is to create war. War and chaos creates revenue. You remember all the anti-american street rallies in other countries, but noone (except public airways) show the millions of people in the US rallying for peace. Besides; Bush was caught twice paying news companies to publish false news stories to persuade the publics opinion. This is illegal. In my opinion, Bush should be prosecuted. He is an equal to every other American, and is not above our laws...yet.

There are many people on this forum that are military men. I've know tons of them throughout my life. Chances are after getting out, you'll have to go to school to actually get a good job. Meanwhile people in the states will have already worked their way up. There are no real benefits for the military unless they spray you with agent orange or whatever new chemical they are testing, or you end up crippled. Then, maybe, your children will get a little CHAMPVA money.

My father was Airborne for 9years, and he held nothing back. He wanted me to know exactly what war was like. The torture techniques that go on, pillaging, etc. He'd wake up in flashbacks and not even know where he was. He slept with his eyes open, always reading a book, always smoking a cigarette. In fact the only way I knew he was sleeping is he'd be speaking vietnamese. It didn't make him stupid. He lived a good life like anybody else. It just put so much extra baggage on him, and its not worth it. He had reinlisted a couple times, but that was for him...he had nowhere else to go. He made sure that I would not join, and now I see why.

There are no benefits that the military can give you, that you are unable to earn for yourself. Hate me if you will. Most people that discharge are in a worse position in life than other people their own age, unless they retire from the military. In that case it's better to be a fireman, policeman, or even a postman. There are governement jobs that do not require you to submit to others. Why do you think both Clinton and Bush didnt join? They had a future.

I respect everyones opinions, but I always see people standing up for whatever the government does...no matter what. It's to the point that if people have contrary opinions they actually feel bad speaking up. We are the United States though, the government has only one function, and that is to prevent our liberties from being taken by another person, or the states. How does installing preferred governements, and spending the nations money help at all? Currently we've spent Billions upon billions of dollars killing Iraqis, and trying to install our preferred government over there. Meanwhile, the tsunami hits, (911 times 100) and we only have 500Million to help these people. So anyone who says this is morally OK, should check the horizon.
Sorry for all the ranting, my views are similar to bodhisattva.

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Thank you for posting, HtTKar. As always, it was intelligent and well worded. I have never known you to rant, and your views are justified and knowledgable, based on first hand experience.
As far as school after the military goes, I guess it depends on 2 factors, what era you served in, and what your MOS-Rating was when you served. I work for the shipyard here at Pearl Harbor, doing the same job that I was trained to do in the military for a whole lot more money. I also have 5 friends that were in the Army that are now out and doing their same job in Kuwait, with no aditional training, for 135k tax free per year.
You are completely right about war creating revinue, in my opinion. WWII is directly responsible for ending the Great Depression. Who knows how much longer the Great Depression would of gone on if it wasn't for a war causing a rebound effect in our economy.
As far as jobs go, I don't know of any in public service ( police officer, fireman, postman, ect.) where you don't have to follow the instructions of your superiors. This comes with any job. And as you stated, it may be better to do these jobs as a civilian, but if you don't have the money or ability to go to college and get the necessary education to be qualified, doing them in the military is a way to get the necessary ojt to switch over to the civilian side, not to mention the benefit of the GI bill. It's just a matter of what you are willing to do, and being informed and educated about what the job entails.
If you choose to serve, that is your right. If you choose not to, that is your right as well. I have choosen to tell my children the same thing that your dad told you. It is because that I (and my wife) have served that my kids will have other options on what to do with their lives. These are options that my parents didn't leave for me. I made my choice and I believe it was the best option for me, but my kids will have a lot more options than I did.
Once again, thank you for posting and I look forward to reading any additional thoughts you have on this subject.
Mahalo, Jeremy