Folding knives for self-defense

[Jim McRae]

Just curious... How many of you carry a folding knife for self defense (or, if you're like armlok and me, several folding knives )? What kind of knife do you carry, where do you conceal it, and why do you choose to carry that particular piece? (If you carry a fixed blade, tell us about that too.) If you carry other weapons besides a knife — O.C. spray, gun, baton, etc. — how does the knife fit into your overall strategy for self defense?

Also, who (besides me) would like to see Burton cover some folding knife techniques and tactics in an upcoming seminar or video?

Mahalo,
Jim McRae

[Jim McRae]

I suppose I should start.

I generally carry one of three folding knives as my primary defensive blade: a Chris Reeve Sebenza (large, with double thumb lugs), a Benchmade Ares (Black-Ti, 50/50 serrated), or an Emerson Commander ('99 model, Black-Ti, partially serrated). I own a good three dozen folding knives, but these three tend to be my favorites for the following reasons. The Sebenza is nice because it is hands-down the strongest folding knife made anywhere in the world. Also, it doesn't look much like a "tactical" knife, making its presence easier to explain to LEO's. It has a nice, heavy titanium handle that can be used as a striking tool when the blade is closed or open. The Ares is light and compact, yet large enough to do serious damage. The axis-lock is amazingly strong (it will take over 800 lbs of pressure, I am told) so I don't have to worry about lost fingers. The Commander is the fastest opening folder anywhere in the world: the "wave" feature on the blade that opens the knife as it leaves your pocket makes it as fast as any fixed blade. I really like the recurved blade — it adds a lot of power to your slashes. Also, Emerson makes a fully-functional folding trainer for the Commander, which is great for training (and sparring, if you don't mind the bruises).

All my knives are carried in my right, front pocket. Their clips are all configured for tip-up carry, which I have found to be the fastest, most secure position for quick-drawing the knife. In addition to one of the above knives, I always have a Leatherman Wave on my right hip, the blades of which can be opened one-handed and are large enough to be used as a backup weapon (as armlok put it, "its the politically correct way to carry two knives"). I also carry an ASP Defender O.C. Spray at my right hip. It is shaped like a mini-baton and made of solid aluminum so it functions as a striking tool as well as a chemical spray. It is held in the "icepick" grip and you can make a full fist around it, so you can use it like a set of brass knuckles in your normal JKD game and mace at your leisure. Sometimes, I also carry an Emerson LaGriffe in a neck-rig: it is the only neck knife I have come across that doesn't print against your shirt, and it is almost impossible to disarm. I try to make my general weapons rule "don't carry more weapons than you have excuses for", so I usually stick to the knife, the Leatherman, and the O.C.

My standard strategy for stay-out-of-jail force-escalation is to (1) go for the O.C. spray, if the opportunity presents itself. Since pepper-spray is the P.C. way to dispose of attackers, it might not land me in court. If that doesn't work I go to (2) hand to hand, using the ASP Defender as a striking weapon. If things get out of hand or a weapon is produced by my opponent I will escalate to (3) my knife. Granted, if the fight started out with a weapon, I'd jump right to #3. Of course, all of these assume I couldn't talk my way out of the situation or run for the nearest cop.

Looking forward to other opinions,
Jim McRae

[WTG]

WOW!

Damn Jim!
Your loaded for bear!

Do you live in a bad neighborhood?

-Rick

[armlok]

I doon need noo stinkin nif.

Sebenza always clipped or in my pocket. Leatherman SuperTool sometimes on my belt. Anything else, I'd rather not say.
Folders have their place, I prefer a fixed blade. Neck knives are great for speed, but lacking in size. One of the best concealed carry, selfdefece fixed blades I had was an old REKAT Hobbit. It was big, but was adjustable and concealed uder t-shirt.
I don't care for OC, too many variables. I'd rather have an impact weapon, 16 in ASP fits in you pocket Jim or others with skills can back it up with other weapons and skills. Sheeple think all they need is O.C.
My strategy is simple. More than 1- go to weapon. weapon pulled or suspected- go to weapon. Got my daughter with me- go to weapon. Doesn't mean I start swinging or cutting, I just don't want to be behind the power curve. Remember the GI that got stomped in the 7-11 parking lot after he called 911? I don't plan on being braindammaged or my family hurt cause I was too slow. Of course I would use verbal commands/techniques, I've been told I'm imtimidating and can bark like a good NCO .

[Burton]

I don't carry in Hawaii, unless I am going into a very sketchy place, which would be very rare. So far, I haven't carried, but would consider it. Carrying is obviously a personal decision, and I think everyone should make up their own mind.
When I lived near downtown L.A. I carried every time I went outside, and had plenty of armament handy throughout the apartment. I would carry a mini-glock in a fanny pack, along with a spiderco in the pocket. I remember one night when my room mate and I realized the we had to pay our electricity bill that night or have the lights go out. I had the glock in the fanny pack, he had his .45, and I had the sawed off shotgun in hand. We drove down, basically made a tactical entry to drop off the bill through the slot, got back in the car, and went home. Now that may sound paranoid, but I have had 6 direct gun involved incidents in L.A. by the time I was 30. I was very happy to finally be able to move to a place where the likelihood of a gun confrontation is minimal. I am not proud of those gun incidents, but that is how it worked out.

[WTG]

Burton,

wasn't there a drive by at your old school? Some person shot out your windows?

-Rick

[Burton]

Yes, but that doesn't count because I wasn't there. I don't think it was a drive-by, though. I believe it was some guys in an apartment across the street who sold crack and other marvelous products, but nobody actually saw where the shot came from. Pretty scary, as 3 of my students had just closed up and were standing next to the window. Good old Long Beach! That was about 6 months before the riots.

Also on carrying, make sure it is legal. I was not carrying legally in L.A., but under the circumstances, it was necessary.

[armlok]

Burton now lives in a nice 'hood. It's gotta be good, I live a mile down the road Besides that, can you imagine the poor slug who tries to take a swing at Burton???
" Wha haole boy like me fals crak u...." "Well officer I was attacked by the large local male. I crash covered, put hte death grip on him and took him down, I got knee to the belly and punched him repeatedly into submission"
Me, I'm a rural kind of guy(Maui) and the first house I had when I moved here was in Kalihi. 2 shooting incidents and the Swat team going through my yard for my neighbor certainly hasn't helped my outlook of Honolulu.
Laws definitely need to be considered when dealing with weapons. My Hobbit was my companion on a few TDY's on the mainland, hell on one trip I was the only one w/out a gun the forst 3 days in Arkansas (North Little Rock, remember the HBO special "Bangin in North Little Rock").
Another "weapon" everyone should look at, a streamlight or surefire 6p or z, etc. Used it on a doper one night during a ride-along, awesome. Lights um up like it's daytime, When I travel I carry one and folder or fixed blade.

[Jim McRae]

Rick:

Actually, I don't live in a bad neighborhood now, but I've lived in a nasty one while I was in school in South Carolina, and I guess I've built up my weapons-carry habits based on that. When I was living in the apartment in SC, one of my neighbors had the S.W.A.T team kick down her door because she was harboring her son, who was on the run after shooting a police officer. I had another neighbor who was a crazy schizophrenic who didn't take his medication. He attacked me one night and I had to choke him out — after that, he threatened to kill me, so I never left the house without two knives, O.C. spray, and a 28" ASP baton (in SC, you can't evict someone for 30 days, and the assault court date wasn't for another two weeks, so I had to live with this crazy s.o.b. across from me for half a month).

I've been in several scraps in my adult life, and I've fortunately never had to use a weapon for self-defense. I agree with Burton 100% about legality: I carry a copy of the Hawai'i weapons'-laws in my wallet.

Take care and train hard,
Jim

[WTG]

Slightly off topic-Drugs, and the need for "something More"

Jim,

you brought up a good point ( a few good ones actually)
From the time I was 14 until 5 years ago (about 15 years total) I lived in a BAD part of Cleveland. I had guns pulled on me about 8 times, TWICE when I was with my mother! Have been stabbed (with a fingernail file of all things AND by a woman) Attacked by a Van full of "Biker looking" people, a bunch of stuff I could have done without...

But, out of all the fights, the worst one was against a guy on drugs! Even more than the guns! The guns, every time I got away without having to physically engage except once.

But, when my wife and I first got together, we lived in a small three room apartment in a house that was split into four apartments. The landlord was in crime and was well known in the area and always wanted by the police.

Well, this place was always shady, but when some new people moved in, and then another group, it became a drug house!

We were robbed three times, one time in the summer, we had the window open, and the people from across the hall, were climbing in our bedroom window and stepped on me in bed! (That's another entertaining story!)

So anyway, this was the scene of the fight that bothered me most in my live. I remember it was about midnight, I was watching David Letterman

There was a knock on the door, I am thinking who is that? Open the door a crack, and a guy I had seen go to the druggies apartments all the time was there. He was a tall guy mid 30's and was on something! He looked wild!

He says, is Billy there? I knew who he meant, but I acted like I had no idea, Billy was a guy who went upstairs allot. And Billy would NEVER be in my apartment! I said there is no Billy here!

I shut the door. I heard him just standing there. he went across the hall and knocked, but the woman was gone with here kids and her hubby was in jail.

He then went up stairs and did the same thing, pushed his way in (the only man upstairs was a REAL crackhead and was burnt out) I hear him walking around, then he comes down again. My gut KNEW there was going to be trouble, I put my shoes on and waited.

Another knock, and he yelled, I NEED TO TALK TO BILLY!!!! I yelled get out of here, there is no Billy here!
He kept knocking and yelling, so I crack the door, and I say listen man, you need to leave here, there is no Billy here! He says, I need to search your house!

I said, you are not coming in here, he put his hand on my chest, pushed me and said, I'M COMING IN! BAM!
I let him have it! Hit him in the face and followed up with about 25 punches like I was hitting a top and bottom bag, almost all landed most to his head, he was a little stunned, but still fighting!

We had moved out the door into the tiny hallway about three feet wide and six feet long with stairs going up and down on the left side. He either was falling forward or trying to still get in my door, and I got him in a headlock, he grabbed my waist and was getting behind me, I thought, I don't want to do this (the headlock) so I seen his boot between my legs and reached down and grabbed his ankle and sat down a little, and he went down HARD! His head hit the ground SO HARD! But he was still in the game!

Now, he is on his back, his head by my door, me at his feet. There was no room to go around him, and laying there, he took up almost the whole hallway , so, he was kicking his big boots up and out at me, I got in a few groin kicks, and finally timed it and jumped to his head.

From there, I was stomping his head, he blocked with his forearms but I got about five good ones in. Then, my wife grabbed me screaming get in here! And was pulling me in the door, this allowed the guy to get up and he stumbled out the door with"let me outta here!"

There was blood everywhere! I was not touched, but for scarps on my stomach and legs from the boots.
And I was SO tired! I was constant motion the whole fight and he was STILL able to fight back!

A month later, I was in the car with my wife and I seen him walking down the street with a bag of groceries. I pointed and said hey, there is that guy that tried to get in the house! He seen my pointing and THREW his bag into the air and was RUNNING down a main street as fast as he could! THAT is how bad I was beating on this guy!

BUT I stress again, HE WAS STILL FIGHTING BACK!

After that fight, plus stories I had heard from friends who are police and other friends who fought people on drugs, I was always very worried about facing one or more of them, and what if they had a weapon!

In times like this, I really believe that you need a weapon, I would say gun or knife, I am not convinced about blunt weapons on these people, because I hit pretty hard, and I am telling you, I hit this guy in total about 25-35 times and when he hit his head on the hard floor AFTER all those hits by me, and WAS STILL not out of the fight...

When I see people teaching finger locks, and wrist twist against drugged attackers, I get upset. It is almost immoral, there is no way they could have actually faced one in real life..

Enough from me...

-Rick

[Burton]

That is the type of fighter that we must train for! The choke is so important, and we must train constantly to get to the back. This is why arm drag, duck under, etc. are so important. The choke is the one thing that can put a guy like that out, without resorting to weaponry. I am glad you survived that one Rick! I hope you live in a much better area now. It is such a relief to be out of the hood. The effect of the constant stress of crime is only truly appreciated when you get away from it. Thanks for the story. No wonder you like JKDU!

[WTG]

Originally posted by Burton
That is the type of fighter that we must train for! The choke is so important, and we must train constantly to get to the back. This is why arm drag, duck under, etc. are so important. The choke is the one thing that can put a guy like that out, without resorting to weaponry. I am glad you survived that one Rick! I hope you live in a much better area now. It is such a relief to be out of the hood. The effect of the constant stress of crime is only truly appreciated when you get away from it. Thanks for the story. No wonder you like JKDU!

JKDU Rocks! And yep, thats the reason I like it!

Ya know Burton, I would have NEVER thought of the choke at that time I am sorry to say... I was all about Jun Fan and Kali! I thought hit-hit hit!

We left about two months later THANK GOD! And yes I am now nice and "safe" in the suburbs Also, back then, I looked to use my art. I didn't realize this until I moved, but I would go to places at night that I shouldn't go to in the day... I was a body gaurd, a bouncer, security officer, a correction officer... And, a FOOL! LOL!

Much safer and wiser now...

Best,

-Rick

[WTG]

PS.

Burton,

yeah it was a bad neighborhood, but I never had to take a shotgun to pay the light bill! That one killed me! LOL!

All my life I wanted to live in LA, as a kid, it was because I wanted to be a Bodybuilder, train at Golds and Worlds and hang out a muscle beach. As a teenager and adult, it was to train as much as possible at the Inosanto Academy etc..

My wife lived in California for six years, and we were going to move there about six years ago, but she refused, she said the reason I like it is because I never lived there. She talked about things like "brown grass"lOL!

And with some stories from you and others, I think I will just visit...

-Rick

[Jim McRae]

Rick:

Man, what an experience! Sounds to me like you're carved out of solid rock. You're right about seeking an equalizer in such a situation, but sometimes the level of drugs can render even guns ineffective. My first Aikido instructor was a police officer in Colorado for several years back in the 70's. One night, he, his partner, and two other officers answered a call where a PCP-filled psychopath was shooting up his family. The officers demanded that the man come out of the house, and come out he did, blazing away with his .44 magnum revolver. Fortunately, the cops were hunkered down behind the engine blocks of their cars, and didn't catch any bullets (not to mention that this guy couldn't hit a barn wall in his state). After the junkie had emptied all six shots, the cops popped up and proceeded to empty their guns into the criminal. I am told that he was shot a dozen times, mostly center body mass, but he was still able to come around the cars and severely beat one officer before he was subdued. He died minutes later, but even after being shot so many times, he was still able do inflict horrendous damage.

I am worried about my knife or O.C. spray having a similar lack-of-effect on a druggie. I make sure to make thrusts to the eyes one of my primary knife techniques — I figure if you can't see, it doesn't matter how much crack you have in your system.

Burton: I am glad you mentioned the choke. It has served me well in the past against the "mentally altered." I have used it so far on one raving schizophrenic and one drunk and it has worked like a charm.

Thanks for the great discussion,
Jim

[WTG]

Hi Jim!

Rock? Naw, I'm just lucky!

Man what a story that reminds of the Moros I believe, that were shot numerous times and were still slashing.
Yes that is spooky, ya know whats worse? Most of the time, they are in groups!

I know from training, that two adult males at one time is VERY hard to deal with, three or more... Well... Ad some crank to the mix and forget about it!

I am sorry to say, that only in the last two years or so, have I trained the choke to the point that it is an option under pressure But, now it is so...

Even without drugs, pain is not something I like to trust.
Every time I show a Biceps hit to a person in demonstration, I get a great reaction,everyone goes WOW! But, I have done it in sparring too and NOTHING!
After the sparring, the guy had a huge bruise, but DURING the match, NOTHING!

Then I used to think, ok, you have to damage the structure, if he can't stand, he can't fight etc... But there is where drugs can that away.

But, if a man can't breath, that's it! It is like un-pluging the machine period! The one thing I worry about with weapons, is having my own weapon used against me!

This post is moving more and more away from your original question, so I will post something else I want to sayabout this, in the post I started about aerobics being too old etc...

ttfn,

-Rick