Do you punch through the target, or do you "snap" your punches?

[Ahoym8e]

This probably applies most to the cross than any other punch...

Currently I punch through, but am trying to learn how to snap the punch to get a little more range, and to expend a little less energy when working the bag.

[sherwinc]

This probably applies most to the cross than any other punch...

Currently I punch through, but am trying to learn how to snap the punch to get a little more range, and to expend a little less energy when working the bag.

eventhough its impossible, but KungFu punches aims to dig a whole in the chest when hitted by a punch...... a fist slips thru a hole in the chest and slips thru at the back of the opponent......

while in Karate, the punch is targeted only to hit the skin of the chest then the fist is withdraw to the waist of the fighter........

[Tom Yum]

This probably applies most to the cross than any other punch...

Currently I punch through, but am trying to learn how to snap the punch to get a little more range, and to expend a little less energy when working the bag.

The answer: Both

You aim through the target via body position and delivering 'body' power from your lower 2/3 of your body that ensures your powering through the target.

The snap comes from the upper 1/3 - your shoulder, triceps and wrist act in coordinated unison. What good is a snap?

Quick physics lecture...

Your punch exerts pressure (force over area - the area of your glove). You cannot change the area of your applied force, assuming you wear the same size gloves each time, so we don't deal with area. Your 'punch' has mass (approximately your bodymass), velocity (speed in a non-vector sense, change in distance over time) and contact time (how long the glove stays on contact with its target). Remember Newton's 2nd Law?

F = M a, well acceleration is just the change in velocity per change in unti time...so

F = M dv/dt

F = Force that you can generate
M = Approximately your body mass
dv = change in velocity
dt = change in time (contact time)

You can slowly change your body mass and speed of your punch slowly over time, but a quick technique adjustment can change your contact time and increase your force

Let's say you're trying to really lunge into your punch. You measure your gloves contact time as 0.45 seconds. You weigh 75 kg (165 lbs) and can move your punch 1.0 meter per second. Your Force generation:

F = 75 kg (1.0 mps/0.45 seconds) = 166.67 Newtons

Let's say that Tim teaches you how to snap your punches to shorten your contact time, you practice really hard over a week and can snap your punches so that your contact time is now 0.30 seconds and we assume your speed doesn't change (your speed would increase a little since your starting out)

F = 75 kg (1.0 mps/0.30 seconds) = 250 Newtons

Your force increases by 50%!


Sorry for such a long drawn out, boring response !

In laymans terms, snapping punches increases your force.

[Ahoym8e]

Tom: great answer!

Please explain how you decided that "a" was speed of punch / contact time.

a is often measured in m/s^2, so your units work out, but how does it equal acceleration? I am familiar with "impulse" so maybe that explains it.

Also a guy in the gym last night showed me that the punch has to be "ground in," i.e. the little quarter turn your hand does near the "apex" of the punch should occurr while in contact with the opponent. I guess you impart torque and impulse?

[Tom Yum]

Tom: great answer!

Please explain how you decided that "a" was speed of punch / contact time.

I guess you impart torque and impulse?

Yep...the snap ups your impulse by cutting contact time, the motion that you describe of turning over adds torque too, think of pouring a pitcher of water, a good visualization trick to help you remember to turn it over at the end.

[Thai Bri]

I don't snap back at all. I just strike in and only withdraw it when one from another limb is hitting home. It helps with forward pressure.

[Tom Yum]

Hey Mike, you've got more experience and that's what matters the most.

I completely agree; strong legs and core make you hit hard- timing is important too. Sounds like you have a great wife/training partner as well!

I can see from my limited experience, that alot of hard work and working through pain/fatigue are also important factors in addition to doing the road work and strengthening the core.

[Ahoym8e]

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is "road work?" Running?

Thanks!

[Ahoym8e]

Mike: Thanks for the great reply. It's replies like yours and Yum's that really make this place worth visiting.

When you hit a bag or a focus mitt, the interpretation of power comes from the reaction of the equipment, mostly. The bag thumps or swings impressively, or the mitt snaps, etc.

I can combo the bag untill it starts swinging a 6 foot arc (it is suspended from the ceiling). I was told that my punches should not really move the bag any, since that meant that I was simply pushing the bag, not punching it.

I suppose if my punch can move the bag, it'll prolly move someones face as well!

[Tom Yum]

Anyway, back on topic. When you hit the bag, it will (and should) swing. That's because you're delivering a lot of force to a suspended, unsupported object. See Newton's post-apple observations if you need more info on this.

Seriously, the way to tell if your punches are doing the right thing is easy. If they "bang" off the bag and you see reactive creases and hear explosive "pops" when the punches land, then you likely have some snap to your strikes and they'll do good things for you. If the bag kind of heaves away from you and you feel the last three inches to a foot of your punch carrying the weight of the bag, then you're pushing, not punching. Think of it like this:

Hey Mike, sounds like you're saying that the power of snap causes the bag to deform around your punch and releases energy in the form of sound a "pop".

Wheras pushing the punch results in the bag lagging around your glove and pushing your punch back a bit.

[Ahoym8e]

Ok, I paid very close attention to my last couple of workouts. I have a "Body Opponent Bag (BOB)" that I work with at home, and both my jab and cross connect with the chin and push it back to the throat (where it makes a popping sound). When I "freeze" at full extension of a cross, the BOB's chin exerts some pressure against my glove, but the face isn't too deformed. I can roll my shoulder into it a little bit (or pivot with my hips) and push the chin back to the throat. I do roll my shoulder into the punch, and I do twist my core into the punch (on a cross) (and hook!!), so the last 2 or 3 inches of travel of my punch occurr after touching the tip of the chin.

Is that still considered "pushing" too much?

If I throw a cross to the body after jabbing to the face it's probably more like 4 inches or so of the punch's travel occurrs after contact, as the chin is farther away (on my BOB! During sparring at the gym that isnt always the case: sometimes the opponent has stepped back after the jab and the body cross is a miserably flailing miss ).

Anyway, feedback is appreciated. I obviously ask all this stuff at the gym too but lots of advice is (sometimes) better than just some.

[PackerX]

Keep in mind also that an opponent's head will not cave in. It will move away from your fist. If you were to extend only to make minimal contact before snapping back, your punches would be much less effective due to decelleration. By moving those extra two-three inches, you're getting full power. Your opponent's head will snap back, meaning that your snapping speed relative to his head is quicker.

I would say not to worry about pushing unless when you punch the dummy, you actually push it enough to make the front of the base leave the floor. That would mean you're pushing it from a high point and just getting it to lean. Otherwise, you're fine.

Actually, if you want your snaps to be really good, aim for hitting the head and making only that move. No body movement whatsoever. That would mean that nearly the full force of your punch has been transferred to the head with no opportunity for it to be transferred to other mediums. Most importantly, your own hand.

-Packer

[Ahoym8e]

Hey I just PM'ed you about it too. Great!!!

[Harry]

I don't do boxing (starting tonight though)
But I am a drummer and this is a drummer question too.

How to hit the drums?

Well as everyone has said, you hit with power and snap, the power will get the volume (damage to opponent), but the snap will allow the stick (fist) to come back up quick enough to hit again.

Thats how I see punching, you want to hit them with power, but you don't want your fist to be pushing into their face for ages, you want it to push and snap back, but like I said, Im starting tonight.

[Cobra_nVidia]

Remember Newton's 2nd Law?

F = M a, well acceleration is just the change in velocity per change in unti time...so

F = M dv/dt

F = Force that you can generate
M = Approximately your body mass
dv = change in velocity
dt = change in time (contact time)

You can slowly change your body mass and speed of your punch slowly over time, but a quick technique adjustment can change your contact time and increase your force

Let's say you're trying to really lunge into your punch. You measure your gloves contact time as 0.45 seconds. You weigh 75 kg (165 lbs) and can move your punch 1.0 meter per second. Your Force generation:

F = 75 kg (1.0 mps/0.45 seconds) = 166.67 Newtons

Let's say that Tim teaches you how to snap your punches to shorten your contact time, you practice really hard over a week and can snap your punches so that your contact time is now 0.30 seconds and we assume your speed doesn't change (your speed would increase a little since your starting out)

F = 75 kg (1.0 mps/0.30 seconds) = 250 Newtons

Your force increases by 50%!

Interesting physics...

The "acceleration" in that equation of the force of impact is how quickly your hand accelerates (negatively) upon impact, due to the impact itself (not drawing back) so "contact time" is not related to it. The shorter the contact time, the less penetration you get, and the less damage you do.

The advantage of snapping is the tack of arm tension during contact. People talk about the moment of impact, but really, it has a beginning, middle, and end.