Peter Manfredo Jnr vs Joe Calzaghe

[wado_kai]

[QUOTE=Uke;264918][QUOTE=wado_kai;264827]

Uhhh ... that wasn't the easiest post to read, but I think I got what you meant. Fact is, Calzaghe is a fine fighter. I hope the best for him...... [QUOTE]


look.. u clearly "misread" my post wether delibratly to manipulate an answer u wanted or not i wont go into.... but wud u please read properly what i say!! it bugs me when people dont!

1. the point i made was, AMERICANS think a fighter has to be rated in AMERICA to be WORLD CLASS... not in the WORLD to be WORLD CLASS... i said this was bollucks. u replied with a silly comment about calzaghe only bein rated in wales! he is a WORLD rated fighter, not just in wales! (guarantee u reply saying he is not world rated because he isnt in america - america isn't the only country on this planet!)

2. i said he is world champion therefore he can dictate were and when he wants to fight!! not americans. he is welsh therefore he wants to fight for his fans in his hometown! i am scottish, i would want to fight in edinburgh/glasgow if i was world champ, screw going to america! why should he have to fight elsewere? its up to fighters to go and prove he aint so great.. when they manage to take his title then they can dictate were they want to fight, be it america, india, pakistan or botswana!

3. name one challenge he has avoided?

4. as said before he already has world recognition, although to americans in boxing, world rep = american rep. hopkins is done although yes i would like joe to fight him, it would be a good scalp to take(even though its probs not worth it becaue joe has only a few fights left in him to waste on hopkins now). also u mentioned taylor to be an elite fighter...? why who has he beat, hopkins - who else? yet u consider him world class and not calzaghe? becasue taylor is american and that is the only reason! and if he is so good why has REFUSED to fight calzaghe, as well as kessler the other reigning champ in the division. who u probs wont even have heard of because he is not american!

5. he has only fought virtual unknowns...? he has fought mandatory title challenegers put forward by the boxing commisions.. not joe's fault who they put in front of him( the no1 ranked challenegers btw) just like every other of your "elite fighters" have done. hmmm virtual unknowns like chris eubank..?

6. roy jones was the one that was bitching over the details, the weight division etc... calzaghe would have fought him. taylor REFUSED to fight him... who he has only been able to make a move on recently( you said how he has only just made an approach) because he has only been around top for a year or so! he is onlny now worth approaching. frank warren has made a move to fight almost every top fighter, everytime being refused or pissed around! they wont fight joe.. hmmm that must just be the southpaw jinx eh!?

7. can u please differentiate the difference between "euro" and "american" boxing please? and why we are boring... cus we dont think its funny to do the ali shuffle in the middle of a round?

8. one of the few european fighters to make something out of there career! the most ignorant comment, either that or u no nothing about boxing except to roy jones, hopkins, tayolor and lacey are.

9. as i have said before; longest reigning champ, equaled the record number of title defense, undefeated, has been knocked i think(not 100% sure on this will admit i could be wrong, i suppose u could look it up when u google to reply) only twice in his career! on paper he is better than any of your "elite" fighters... and that is something you cannot argue! plus... how many fighters do you can fight 9 rounds with one hand?

can i please ask you to actually read what i have said as it took sumtime, dont ignore bits or twist comments to suit you..its rather anoying! and then if u are able to reply with something sensible please do so.. otherwise please dont! and i have to say i think u have a very limited knowledge of boxing if any.... dont take that personally its just u have thrown in some weird and silly comments!

i really do hope calzaghe fights all your hopkins etc before he retires... shut everyone up!

quick edit to re iterate my 2nd point, i just read this "But I'm the challenger now and I have to go and get the title wherever it is on offer.

I could see that there was a beautiful atmosphere at [Cardiff's] Millennium Stadium for the Manfredo fight, that's the sort of support needed to make a great fighter like Joe." Roy Jones... like i said why should calzaghe have to fight elsewer other than wales.. like roy just said its up to fighters to fight him!

so it seems roy jones has offered to fight calzaghe in july.... this will be good!!! am pretty sure joe will now scalp roy jones and taylor by the end of the year!

[Uke]

The threads about Calzaghe vs Manfredo.

Double negative.

You should never start a sentence with "And"




It's pretty obvious that you haven't seen much of Calzaghe fights before Manfredo.


Not at all.
I just think you talk shit.


Oh really.
Man, see if you can find some footage of Nigel Benn vs Chris Eubanks and tell me how boring it is.
That's a really ignorant thing to say.
Naseem Ahmed boring for you too?





Fine by me, 20 bucks ok for you?

I'm thinking more like $50 American.

[Uke]

Oh brother. . . . .

Exactly.

[wado_kai]

no reply forthcoming then? a didnt think so....

[Troll Virus]

I'm thinking more like $50 American.

Fine then.
I'm not overly flush with cash, but if that's what you want, then consider yourself 'called'.
I raise you $20.

I'm quoting exactly what you posted here for the bet so you can't edit your post and back out;

But if you're still feeling mouthy after this post, we could always make a wager. If Calzaghe fights Hopkins, Taylor or Wright we can bet on the winner. We already know who you'll bet on! We can set up a paypal account and put the money in there controlled by say ... Mike Brewer? Then the winner takes all. I'll put my money where my mouth is. What kind of man are you?

We'll see who knows what.

[Uke]

1. the point i made was, AMERICANS think any fighter has to be rated in AMERICA to be WORLD CLASS... i said this was bollucks. u replied with a silly comment about calzaghe only bein rated in wales! he is a WORLD rated fighter, not just in wales! (guarantee u reply saying he is not world rated because he isnt in america - america is the only country on this planet!)

I am aware that Calzaghe is a world champion. However, it is not uncommon for a foreign champion to win a single belt(usually the WBO) and defend it against a string of bums that only serve to pad his record. It happens here in America as well! This is the same criticism I held Bernard Hopkins to until 2000! If you hide at one talentless division for 10 years and never seek challenges beyond the mandatory then you are padding your record and opening yourself to that kind of criticism!

2. i said he is world champion therefore he can dictate were and when he wants to fight!! not americans. he is welsh therefore he wants to fight for his fans in his hometown! i am scottish, i would want to fight in edinburgh/glasgow if i was world champ, screw going to america! why should he have to fight elsewere?

Yes he can! But America is the Mecca of boxing, baseball, basketball and football(not soccer)! To dispute that would only reveal your own ignorance! Let Calzaghe fight where he may, but unless you go to where the challenges lie, you're a guppy .. A small fish in a big pond. A boxer has to define his career by doing great things, not by beating up men who are opponents and not contenders. Do you even know the difference?

3. name one challenge he has avoided?

The only one worth mentioning is coming to America! Its the place where opportunity for him to face the greatest challenges lie. Do you want me to name fighter like Roy Jones, Lou Del Valle, Eric Harding and Antonio Tarver who were only 7lbs away from Joe's current weight? Or should I name fighters like Hopkins, Taylor, Wright and even Felix Sturm(euro) who are only 8lbs smaller than Joe? He's never fought any of them, and its more than doubtful that all these men are afraid of Joe Calzaghe.

4. as said before he already has world recognition, although to americans in boxing, world rep = america. hopkins is done although yes i would like joe to fight him, it would be a good scalp to take(even though its probs not worth it becaue joe has only a few fights left in him). also u consider taylor to be an elite fighter...? why who has he beat, hopkins - who else? yet u consider him world class and not calzaghe? and if he is so good why has REFUSED to fight calzaghe, as well as kessler the other reigning champ in the division. who u probs wont even have heard of because he is not american!

Joe does have world recognition after earning the WBO belt, but his real recognition came after fight Lacy, which goes to show teach you something about the sport of boxing whether you like it or not. Hopkins isn't done, as he was done before and came back to put a beating on Tarver. He's more than game for Calzaghe. And Taylor has fought Hopkins twice and Wright once. That's more than anyone can say for Calzaghe, who was rocked and floored by Byron Mitchell. Mitchell has always been tough and strong, and that's what makes up for his lack of skill. That's why Sven Ottke beat him right before Calzaghe did. If that's the toughest opponent Joe Calzaghe has had, that says alot about Calzaghe, not Mitchell.

But like every eurofan, you always say its the AMERICANS that duck the euro fighters. It was the same claim when it came to Dariusz Michalczewski. Dariusz actually lost to Richard Hall in Germany the first time they fought, but the ref was told to stop the fight even though Hall was kicking Michalczewski's ass and was in route to a victory and possible KO. Did you see that fight? I did. Then later on, Julio Gonzalez beat Michalczewski in Germany after all the same shit you're talking now. No one ducked Michalczewski, and no one is ducking Calzaghe. Michalczewski got beat by men Roy Jones embarrassed in the ring, and I'm confident that if Calzaghe comes stateside or even agrees to fight Hopkins, Taylor or Wright in Wales he'll end up no different.

5. he has only fought virtual unknowns... he has fought mandatory title challenegers put forward by the boxing commisions.. not joe's fault who they put in front of him( the no1 ranked challenegers btw) just like every other of your "elite fighters" have done. hmmm virtual unkwons like chris eubank..?

Chris Eubanks hadn't done anything worth talking about since beating Nigel Benn 17 years ago in a very close fight. Since, he had gone on to lose more and more frequently. Twice to Collins before Calzaghe and twice to Thompson after. Beating a guy in that condition is hardly something to wave a flag about.

6. roy jones was the one that was bitching over the details the weight division etc... calzaghe would have fought him. taylor REFUSED to fight him... who he has onnly been able to make a move on recently because he has only been around top for a eyar or so! frank warren has made a move to fight almost every top fighter everytime being refused or pissed around! they wont fight joe.. hm,mm that must just be the southpaw jinx eh!?

No one will fight Joe Calzaghe? Refer to the reply to #4. The second paragraph. I have no doubt that Calzahe is tricky, as most southpaws are. But I do know that it is the plight of euro-boxing fans to convince the world that everyone is ducking their favorite fighter who fights in some obscure corner of the world where boxing isn't nearly as big. They said Roy didn't want to fight Nigel Benn until Benn was quoted as saying "Roy Jones puts the fear of god into me". Same ole same ole.

7. can u please differentiate the difference between "euro" and "american" boxing please? and why we are boring... cus we dont think its funny to do the ali shuffle in the middle of a round?

Euro boxers are stiff, upright and move like robots. Many of them are aware of this and that's why they come to America seeking additional training (ala Klitschko's). Even the ones who try to have movement realize that they aren't properly schooled in the science, and even they come looking for additional help in improving ala Naseem Hamed.

8. one of the few european fighters to make somehting out of there career! the most ignorant comment, either that or u no nothing about boxing except to roy jones, hopkins, tayolor and lacey are.

Actually, its not. European fighters are popular in their corner of the world. American boxers who rise to the top and do great things are known worldwide. Name a european fighter that was ever as popular worldwide as Muhammad Ali, Sugar Ray Leonard, Mike Tyson or Roy Jones Jr? They are known all over the world, not just in America. Name just one. Ricky Hatton and the Klitschkos aren't a fraction as popular or respected as fighters as the ones I mentioned. You can't name a single euro-boxer on that level because one doesn't exist.

9. as i have said before; longest reigning champ, equaled the record number of title defense, undefeated, has been knocked i think(not 100% sure on this will admit i could be wrong, i suppose u could look it up when u google to reply) only twice in his career! on paper he is better than any of your "elite fighters... and that is something you cannot argue!

This is the same argument that people used to use when arguing for Bernard Hopkins! A padded record is a padded record. The super-middleweight division has been dead since Roy Jones left it, but you found it to be exilerating since Calzaghe was there.

can i please ask you to actually read what i have said as it took sumtime, dont ignore bits or twist comments to suit you..its rather anoying! and then if u are able to reply with something sensible please do so.. otherwise please dont! and i have to say i think u have a very limited knowledge of boxing if any.... dont take that personally its just u have thrown in some weird and silly comments!

i really do hope calzaghe fights all your hopkins etc befoer he retires... shut everyone up!

You can think whatever you want. But the fact is that the only time Euro-fighters enjoy success is when a division becomes weak like the heavyweight division is. Need proof?

Hatton only beat Tszyu after Tszyu had a 2 year layoff and was already contemplating retirement. And in that fight, Tszyu scored a knowdown that would have dramatically changed the complexion of that fight. Three years prior and Tszyu would have picked Hatton apart.

Calzaghe has been and stayed quiet in his tiny corner after Jones went up to light heavyweight. He has plenty of opportunities to fight guys like Hopkins who is smaller, or Jones, Harding and Tarver who are 7lbs larger. He's done none of that. He's picking now to come to America now that Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins have gotten old, and he feels he can pitty-pat Taylor to death.

The Wladimir Kiltschko, Nicolay Valuev and Oleg Maskaev have only enjoyed their success since the men who held that division down got old. Against a prime Holyfield, Lewis, Tyson and Bowe they would have been knocked out. The heavyweight division hasn't been this weak in decades, and that's why they chose now to come to America to fight. They know they had a great shot to do some things.

[Uke]

Fine then.
I'm not overly flush with cash, but if that's what you want, then consider yourself 'called'.
I raise you $20.

I'm quoting exactly what you posted here for the bet so you can't edit your post and back out;

Why would I back out? I can't speak for your character, but I keep my word.

[medic06]

Way Overhyped. . . .

I had to watch this fight. I'll say Manfredo was pretty much destined to lose this fight. That said. . . . . . .

Considering that Calzaghe had nearly every advantage possible for this fight, he still didn't really pick Manfredo apart. If you look at the slow motion replay, out of 11 punches (or hammerfists when Manfredo ducked) he land at most 3 shots; one to the neck, one on the chin, and one to the back. Noe of these rocked Manfredo. I would think that someone with that much speed, reach advantage, and experience (not to mention fragile hands) would sit back and pick apart his opponent rather than close to flurry.

Calzaghe is a good fighter, but I would like to see him fight someone with a good chin and decent power who is willing to take what Calzaghe dishes out and give it back with a little interest.

[Troll Virus]

Why would I back out? I can't speak for your character, but I keep my word.

I'll tell you why;
You clearly made reference to a forum member here, whose wife was terminally ill and subsequently passed away.
You then tried to claim you didn't, when everyone here knows you did.
That makes you a lying coward.
Prove me wrong!

I've raised you.
Do you accept, raise or fold?

[Uke]

I had to watch this fight. I'll say Manfredo was pretty much destined to lose this fight. That said. . . . . . .

Considering that Calzaghe had nearly every advantage possible for this fight, he still didn't really pick Manfredo apart. If you look at the slow motion replay, out of 11 punches (or hammerfists when Manfredo ducked) he land at most 3 shots; one to the neck, one on the chin, and one to the back. Noe of these rocked Manfredo. I would think that someone with that much speed, reach advantage, and experience (not to mention fragile hands) would sit back and pick apart his opponent rather than close to flurry.

Calzaghe is a good fighter, but I would like to see him fight someone with a good chin and decent power who is willing to take what Calzaghe dishes out and give it back with a little interest.

This is pretty much what I've been saying.

I would think that someone with that much speed, reach advantage, and experience (not to mention fragile hands) would sit back and pick apart his opponent rather than close to flurry.

I can't even call what he does a flurry. It was shoe shining. Pitty pat slaps that don't even land, but make it look like he's doing more than he's actually doing. As you said, out of 11 he landed 3 slaps at the most. But when guys like Troll Virus and Wado kai watch the fights, all they see is their hero winning.

Which is why this debate has even gone this far!

[Troll Virus]

I had to watch this fight. I'll say Manfredo was pretty much destined to lose this fight. That said. . . . . . .

Well yeah.
I mean c'mon.
I like Manfredo as a person and all, but anyone with a nose like that ought to have learned some 'smarts' already.

Considering that Calzaghe had nearly every advantage possible for this fight, he still didn't really pick Manfredo apart.

For me, it never became a contest at any point.

If you look at the slow motion replay, out of 11 punches (or hammerfists when Manfredo ducked) he land at most 3 shots; one to the neck, one on the chin, and one to the back. Noe of these rocked Manfredo. I would think that someone with that much speed, reach advantage, and experience (not to mention fragile hands) would sit back and pick apart his opponent rather than close to flurry.

Don't want this to be a lecture on boxing or anything, but this was a no-contest bout from the start.

Calzaghe is a good fighter, but I would like to see him fight someone with a good chin and decent power who is willing to take what Calzaghe dishes out and give it back with a little interest.

That's about the sanest comment to date.
I also think Calzaghe would like that too.
He's a great 'boxer' in the traditional sense.
You might want to look back at Calzaghe's previous match, where he repeatedly took headbutts (yet another blind referee couldn't quite see) and fought on too win without question.
There's no doubt in my mind that Calzaghe can take a shot.
You'll see no wild swings from him though.

My only concern, is that he should really be retiring at his age now.

[Uke]

I'll tell you why;
You clearly made reference to a forum member here, whose wife was terminally ill and subsequently passed away.
You then tried to claim you didn't, when everyone here knows you did.
That makes you a lying coward.
Prove me wrong!

I've raised you.
Do you accept, raise or fold?

I accept. The money mean less to me than the disappointment that you'll experience. And as far as me making reference to a forum member... if I wanted to state something specifically to someone here, I would have like I have in the past. My post, which was speaking directly to Mike Brewer, was in response to being told that this is a Martial Arts site first and foremost. People were told that they cannot discuss politics and such, so I made a statement. I didn't direct that statement towards anyone, or I would have made ABSOLUTELY SURE to include a name.

For me to have to then lie about it would mean that I give a damn about anyone's feelings here. This is a MA website, not Oprah where grown men come to cry. Get over it and get ready to lose some cash.

[Uke]

Don't want this to be a lecture on boxing or anything, but this was a no-contest bout from the start.

What the hell does that have to do with Calzaghe missing the majority of his shots? What does that reply have to do with Calzaghe throwing slaps and hammerfists? How can it be a lecture on boxing when you haven't said anything about boxing? The stoppage was uncalled for. Calzaghe missed 8 out of 11 punches in the shoe-shining flurry he threw that stopped the fight, and the ones he landed did next to no damage! Lecture on that.

My only concern, is that he should really be retiring at his age now.

Shane Mosley and Oscar DelaHoya both went pro at or around the same year that Calzaghe did, and they've fought much harder battles against much better fighters than Calzaghe has. They are still actively fighting and seeking opponents.

Why is it so important for Calzaghe to retire now? Is it because he's considering fighting in America? Of course it is.

And because of that, we now see Troll Virus hoping for Joe to duck out now with his padded record intact. Bernard Hopkins went pro in 1988, and just went up to Lt. heavyweight to defeat Antonio Tarver. Do you know why? Hopkins has nothing to prove at this juncture. So why did he do it? Because great champions want to meet challenges. They want to define a legacy. They want to excel among their peers(champions), not among opponents meant to pad a record.

Bernard Hopkins had a padded record in my opinion too before he fought Keith Holmes. He had avoided every other title holder for years. Then in 2000, he began making up for lost time. He fought fights that fans wanted to see. He fought the then undefeated and highly favored champion Tito Trinidad, which is what really got him recognition. Then afterward, he fought matches that defined his legacy, not padded his record. He eventually unified his division. Had Hopkins not done that he would be in the same boat that Calzaghe is in. Defended one belt(IBF) in a weak division for years hoping to break Carlos Monzon's record, which would have been a much weaker legacy to leave.

You obviously don't know boxing otherwise you'd recognize this. The parallels are undeniable. Calzaghe has plenty of quality opposition around him, heavier or lighter, but thus far he's refused to seek any of it. And all you can do to even seem competent in this discussion is defend Calzaghe's choice to make the decisions he's made.

[Troll Virus]

I can't even call what he does a flurry. It was shoe shining. Pitty pat slaps that don't even land, but make it look like he's doing more than he's actually doing. As you said, out of 11 he landed 3 slaps at the most. But when guys like Troll Virus and Wado kai watch the fights, all they see is their hero winning.

Calzaghe is far from being my "Hero".
He is a good Boxer.
You've typed yourself into a hole though.
You should really have taken my advice and gone looking for footage of Calzaghe and other (boring)"Euro-fighters"

I accept. The money mean less to me than the disappointment that you'll experience.

Your confidence is noted, as is your commitment to the bet.

And as far as me making reference to a forum member... if I wanted to state something specifically to someone here, I would have like I have in the past.

Didn't I already tell you not to start a sentence with "And"?

You did make reference to a forum member here in a singly low fashion.
You don't have the guts to be direct about it though.
Your comment was designed to be hurtful, to someone already in distress.
I personally, will never forgive you for that.
You're fortunate that Tant01 is a better man than me.
You're fortunate that the staff here are better men than me.

I'll donate the money I win from you to defend.net.

[Troll Virus]

What the hell does that have to do with Calzaghe missing the majority of his shots? What does that reply have to do with Calzaghe throwing slaps and hammerfists? How can it be a lecture on boxing when you haven't said anything about boxing? The stoppage was uncalled for. Calzaghe missed 8 out of 11 punches in the shoe-shining flurry he threw that stopped the fight, and the ones he landed did next to no damage! Lecture on that.

You'd have to be blind not to see that Manfredo was out of his depth.
Like I said way back on this thread.
Calzaghe gave Manfredo a warning slap on the back of his head for turning his back, as if to say 'defend yourself at all times'
Delude yourself all you will about the 'superiority' of American Boxers.
If you think Calzaghe couldn't have knocked Manfredo's jaw clean off, you are delusional.
The fact that he didn't. makes him a credit to the sport.

Why is it so important for Calzaghe to retire now? Is it because he's considering fighting in America? Of course it is.

What age are you?
You write like you're still at school.
Calzaghe has had a lifetime in the sport.
Nobody said it was important for Calzaghe to retire.

And because of that, we now see Troll Virus hoping for Joe to duck out now with his padded record intact.

Oh **** off you dickhead.
You are an arsehole!
How can anyone with any real training background dismiss someone like Calzaghe in that way?

Bernard Hopkins went pro in 1988, and just went up to Lt. heavyweight to defeat Antonio Tarver. Do you know why? Hopkins has nothing to prove at this juncture. So why did he do it? Because great champions want to meet challenges. They want to define a legacy. They want to excel among their peers(champions), not among opponents meant to pad a record.

I'll guarantee you that calzaghe knows a heck of a lot more about Hopkins than you doi.

You obviously don't know boxing otherwise you'd recognize this. The parallels are undeniable. Calzaghe has plenty of quality opposition around him, heavier or lighter, but thus far he's refused to seek any of it. And all you can do to even seem competent in this discussion is defend Calzaghe's choice to make the decisions he's made.

STFU and see what happens.

In the meantime, you owe a huge apology to Tant, not to mention everyone else here.

N.B I still haven't resorted to calling you "pUKE" like most folks here.