Peter Manfredo Jnr vs Joe Calzaghe

[Troll Virus]

I'd like for a moment to illustrate why people look at America as the center of gravity for boxing in the world. Not all sports, mind you, but certainly boxing.

Speaking, as I do from 'outside' America.
I want to put some figures in perspective here.
The entire population of the UK is around 60million.
I think the population New York alone is in the region of 80million.
There's a lot more boxing going on in the USA than anywhere else in the world.
That's going to mean more boxers, more interest, therefore more money, therefor higher profile.

The issue for those outside of the US, is that we so often see/hear Americans chest thumping about how good this, that and the next thing American is.
Just look at how quickly this thread got to be US vs UK?

Mike, you might remember a while back, me mentioning how annoying it is to UK people when we see Hollywood productions portraying Good ole US of A helping out da poor little brits.
Meanwhile over here, we only just finished paying off our war debt to America, which had the equivalent cost of 80 new hospitals a year.
Somebody do the math for me.
That's a lot of hospitals not built since 1945.
America crippled the UK economy.
We're really grateful.
There's something altogether jingoistic and irritating about America to those not within it, which you can see in Wado Kai's posts.

Make a couple of lists. First should be the top three boxers in any weight class from say, 1940 on to the present. Chances are, no matter what weight class you pick, at least two of the three you will have to choose are American fighters. In many cases, it's all three.

Law of averages is going to make you right.
The country somebody comes from should not be the issue.
That's racism isn't it?

It's not an anti-British thing to say America is the boxing mecca anymore than it is to say that the UK is the same to soccer or cricket. It's just something suggested by the facts.

I don't think that's really the point Mike.
Calzaghe already unified two belts.
If you're American greats want to be anybody, then they should be desperate to fight him and it shouldn't matter to them or to him, who comes to who, after all, it doesn't matter what country you are in when you're going at it toe to toe does it?

I think personally that Calzaghe could hold his own against the elites (a club to which he rightfully belongs), but at this point, Uke is right that it's all speculation. No one may want to admit it, but since he hasn't fought anyone of the caliber of a Taylor or Hopkins, it's all speculative.

Shouldn't it be the other way round?
Have Taylor or Hopkins ever fought someone of Calzaghes calibre?

As for Soccer.
We do owe you an apology for inflicting David and Victoria Beckam upon you.

[Uke]

Nah, you're just ratty any time anyone talks back to you, or questions the self delusion you have that your opinion is somehow more informed than everyone elses.
STFU.

I guess you picked the "stay locked up in your own hurt emotions" option.

I think nobody speaks to you in real life, and you treat this forum as a surrogate soapbox.

Soapbox? To preach about what ... martial arts? I spend my time here writing about martial arts and rarely if ever politics. I don't come here divulging personal information about my life in an attempt to make friends here. That would be the actions of those who have no friends and need to solicit the friendship of complete strangers on the internet.

You and some others here aren't here to write about MA. And that's clear. You're here looking for attention and cyber-camaraderie if there is such a thing. So if holding on to your anger makes you feel like "one of the guys", I say do it!

Keep doing it if it makes you happy.

[Uke]

joe has hid from no one.. as i said.. warren has put in an offer to fight almost all of the top fighters, including roy jones! who refused to fight, look that up u will find i am right. FACT.hopefully this fight goes ah ead in july thought, good win for calzaghe. talentless division.. haha!!

How has Roy Jones refused to fight Calzaghe? When Roy Jones beat the then P4P#1 fighter in the world James Toney, he was a super middleweight. Calzaghe was fighting then. And a year after Roy Jones left that division, Calzaghe won his own portion of the championship. Why would Roy Jones have to concede to any of Calzaghe's demands at that point? Jones had gone up to become the WBA, WBC, IBF Lt Heavyweight champion, vacating the Super-Middleweight and Middleweight titles to do it. What had Calzaghe done? Who had he fought? You can't negotiate from a position of weakness, so Calzaghe turned down Jones' terms because he didn't want the fight, not because Jones asked for anything outrageous. Had Calzaghe fought and won, he'd be one of the greats of all time instead of just your local hero.

mecca of boxing... typical yank! it is for americans, thats my point, americans think everything revolves around america. as i stated before the only reason shite boxers like valuev, wladimir etc that u mentioned is because americans pay them obscene amounts of money for being nothing more than average! and as i said he is champ... challengers need to go to him, but they WONT, how often can i stress, frank warren has tried to arrange fights with all the top fighters at the time they all refuse to fight calzaghe!! that is FACT. he HAS to fight mandatory title challenegers... other than that he can only fight people who will fight him!

Whoa! What's with all the American bashing? I'm not making British jokes or reminding you that you'd be speaking German if it weren't for us. So cool it. As far as boxing revolving around America, it does. That's like the Italian basketball team arguing that they are just as good as the NBA. Or the Japanese saying that they are just as good in baseball. You don't have to like it. But ya gotta love it.

no, its the place were the most amount of money is payed for average fighters! warren tried to arrange a deal with jone as i said, he backed out! again that is fact! i am not a 100% sure but i think tarver did as well, but he is shite anyway! why would he want to fight him? like i said top american boxer = world class fighter to americans. taylor just refused to fight joe, possibly will do for the 2nd time soon FACT, again not 100% sure but a think hopkins refused to fight calzaghe. wright.. there has never been any interest in that fight. why does calzaghe have to move to fight them? if they wer so good they would move to fight him to prove a point.. america fighters jump between divsions anyway.

Exactly! Its where the money is to lure the best. Other than challenges and money, what is there to lure talent to fight? Calzaghe is not a fighter who can make demands at this point in his career, but you just can't stand it. If he's happy doing what he's doing then fine. I'm happy for him. But don't play that bullshit about people around the world doing it up like America. People from all over the world come to America to fight the best and win big purses. Some men cannot even speak English and they come, from Pacquiao to Castillio. Men from all over the globe come here and make a name for themselves worldwide. Pacquiao is an American fighter, but is still a celebrity in the Philippines. Barrera fights primarily in America, but is a celebrity in Mexico. Ike Quartey is an American fighter, but is a celebrity in Ghana. These men I've named are true great boxers, in that they haven't hid from challenges and made great fights.

bollucks!!!! it did not come after lacy!! he has had recognition since he started his career! hopkins is done... the guy is like 38 or sumit! that shows that hopkins is done he got beat of taylor twic!! thats why he retired.. so wud i if i got beat of a chump like taylor! tarver is just shit, nuff said.(a guy who made his name in a weak divsion after the likes of lewis is he not?) and if winky the ultimate defensive boxer can take the fight to taylor and rip him apart then what do u think calzaghe will do! everyone knows winky won that fight.

What the hell are you talking about? Tarver made a name after Lewis? You're lost. Styles make fights. If you think that because Winky did well in that fight that Calzaghe would do that well, then you know less than I thought. Just because A beats B, and B beats C doesn't mean that A can beat C. And sorry to burst your bubble. Calzaghe only gained worldwide attention after he beat Lacy. You can believe what you will, but it is what it is.

dont give a shit about dariusz... it is FACT that roy jones taylor etc have refused to fight taylor.. and cover it up with some excuse!i will say it for the last time... frank warren has INITIATED talks for joe to fight a range of "elite" fighters... yet the wont agree to it. end up no different, well we will see if he fights jones in july, then if taylor gets some balls and ACCEPTS joes challenge for septemeber. oh and julio gonzalez is an american fighter.. sure sounds american doesnt he? he is mexican! mexican fighters certainly wipe the floor with american fighters.

Roy Jones and Taylor have refused to fight Taylor? Again you're confused. Again, Calzaghe cannot negotiate from a position of weakness. If he doesn't except the champions terms, then he just loses the opportunity for fame and money. Do you know how many fighters price and demand themselves out of fights? When a fighter doesn't really want a fight, he can easily price himself so high that it makes no sense. Do you have any idea as to how boxing negotiations work? I doubt it. Oh and by the way, Gonzalez' hometown is California. He might have been born in Mexico, but he is trained and resides in the USA. Mexican fighter are tough as nails, but you put them against an equally good American fighter and the American fighter usually wins. There will never be another Chavez.

yup guy was a total chump right enough.... hahaha.. if he was american he would have been considered an all time great ffs!

If that were that were true, why don't more euro fighter come over and get recognized? Its because they always get flattened climbing the ladder. The best Euro boxer of the last generation was Lennox Lewis. And his legacy is beating up an old Mike Tyson and an even older Evander Holyfield. He was knocked out by Oliver McCall, who could have done it again but cried before and during the rematch. And Lewis was knocked out by Rahman, who isn't that big of a puncher. He came close to being knocked out by Shannon Briggs, but Briggs could close the deal. It was Stewart's guidance that led Lewis to fight Tyson and Holyfield late in the game to cement his legacy. But his legacy is based on names only, and historians will mention that. Hatton, another Euro boxer and one of the few that I respect, has only fought Kostya Tszyu. He had the chance to fight Mayweather but jerked around the negotiations. Mayweather didn't need him and moved up in weight. Hatton tried to chase the money and got beat up for his troubles, but they robbed Collazo. So Hatton had to move back down because he isn't the fighter Mayweather is. He doesn't have the ability to move up a division. We saw that. Who has Hatton fought? He's been riding the fumes from his Tszyu win for quite a while now.

ur #4 paragraph two was a load of shit tbh what does it half to do with joe? ... as i just said frank warren initiated talks with jones etc... they wouldnt fight... this is not debatable.. its fact! roy jones is now only offereing to fight him because its a last stab chance for him... he is done and he knows it.

Actually, you're just not equipped to argue paragraph 4. Its made strong points that you can't counter. But I do agree that Roy Jones is now only looking to fight as a "glory days" bout.

stupidest thing i have ever heard, not even worth replying to! wladimir is average, vitali smacked up everyone, additional training my arse! and he is heavyweight ffs.. how many do you know that can move, that was a daft example - wait a bet you come back with ali!? hamed was shit! enough said on him! but the only reason he was popular was because of the way he danced about the ring like an american, cocky little shit he was, barrera put an end to him!!!

They can't move. They move like robots. Upright and stiff. They box mostly like Frenchman. And if you dispute the additional training, then you don't know boxing. Lewis sought out American training. Klitschko's did. Prince Naseem Hamed did. They realized their shortcomings and got with the program. Naseem left after only one fight where he used his euro training to get his ass beat.

again ignorant america comment, america = world! hahahaahaha.. no wonder they were famous u have just mentioned three of the greatest fighters of all time!! jones however is not ( and and i did i mention refused to fight joe). name one.. how about joe calzaghe? hatton is hugely respected... but yet again u assume cause he is not in america the rest of the world doesnt! he is!! oh and ali... his popularity rocketed when he told the americans to go stuff themselves! he is about as much an american fighter as i am. the two of his biggest fights in his career were with out america.

Jones isn't? Who ignorant now? Jones has accomplished more in boxing than all three of those men. He's fought more champions, beat the best in each weight division he's been in, and been champion at middleweight, super middleweight, Lt heavyweight and heavyweight. He just didn't know when to quit. Name any euro fighter who's ever come close to doing something even reminiscent of that?

Ricky Hatton didn't get the recognition he got until he beat Kostya Tszyu. Before that he was looked at as a promising unproven prospect. Its not where you fight, its who you fight. Its what you do and accomplish. Hatton has only beaten an aged Tszyu and nothing else. Since he lost to Collazo but got the gift. Calzaghe hasn't even done that much. At least at one time Tszyu was a proven champion and fierce competitor. Lacy has never silenced his critics due to lackluster performances and the way he struggled through even his tune up matches. You must know nothing if you think Lacy was seen as some unbeatable bruiser that Calzaghe stopped. Credit goes to Joe for exposing Lacy, but don't make it into something that it wasn't.

yeah..because he is an excellent fighter... as i mentioned he has the ability to make any fighter look like a chump!

If Joe Calzaghe has the ability to make any fighter look like a chump he would have made all the fighters in and around his division look like chumps. He hasn't because he doesn't believe in his ability to win against better competition. Period. He isn't turning down millions of dollars and the chance to be a legend so that he can prove a point to Americans. I can tell you that much.

joe still isnt going to america, he doesnt need to... not when he gets 35,000 fans in his home country. its liike roy ones said, people have to go to challenge him! and this really is the last time i am gona mention this, frank warren has started talks with and tried to arrange fights with the like of jones etc but none of them agreed! u cannot debate that fact! and you consider a divsion to be weak if there isnt an american fighter at the top... and if there is all of a sudden they are an elite or world class fighter such as taylor.

Let's look at an excerpt about Joe Calzaghe shall we?

"On 27 November 2006 it was announced that Calzaghe had signed a contract to defend his WBO Super Middleweight title against former star of Contender Peter Manfredo Jr. on 7 April 2007 at Millennium Stadium in Cardiff, Wales on HBO. Because HBO didn't want to cover any fight with mandatory IBF challenger Robert Stieglitz, and with the opportunity if he won against Manfredo to fight Taylor in the summer, Calzaghe chose to fight Manfredo and resultantly had to relinquish the IBF super middleweight championship. Both Calzaghe and Warren claimed that "Stieglitz doesn't mean anything outside of Germany."

Calzaghe has applied this same logic to his repeated moves not to fight WBA/WBC champion Mikkel Kessler, refusing to meet "The Viking Warrior" until his own recognition in the United States is more pronounced."

Does this not put all of your arguments to shame? You do realize that this makes you look incredibly stupid, right? Why oh why do these people come here to look foolish?

they only enjoyed success yeah cus there was no one else, yeah whats your point? they are all shite anyway who u mentioned! bowe was a joke, tyson was possibly the greatest ever fighter (calzaghe on paper a think though), oh and lewis was british btw and oh who beat tyson(although granted it might have been different with a tyson of his early days), they chose to go to america because as i said, the reached the top then they went to america because ameicans are daft enough to pay stupid amounts of money for average fighters!

Bowe wasn't a joke when he was on top! Tyson was possibly the greatest fighter, we agree. And Lewis ... well we've already discussed Lewis' paper legacy. America isn't daft for putting out that money. It does it because it keeps the sport of boxing alive and to a higher level of competition. If it didn't, our boxers would look like yours. As it is, many athletes are shying away from boxing because they can make more money playing baseball, football or basketball without having to get punched in the face. So there's a method to the madness.

you say joe hasn't fought anyone, well its not his fault people have refused to fight him! if you were taylor and that good, would you have chose to fight cory spinks or calzaghe? and thats fact!

Do you realize that Jermain Taylor has only been a pro for 6 years and already has a more impressive resume than Calzaghe? He's already fought current world champions, two fellow P4P'ers and made history by derailing Hopkins' unbroken record of title defenses. Joe Calzaghe has fought second and third rate fighters his entire career, and now all of a sudden you making him seem like he's conquered the world!

Calzaghe's a good boxer. Granted. I like him and he was impressive against Lacy. No one can take that away from him. But he's got proving to do. That's all.

[Troll Virus]

Al Gore invented the internet....

Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone and John Logie Baird the TV.
Both were Scottish (UK).
Other notable scottish inventors came up with tarmac, penecillin and the steam engine.
Without all of which, you wouldn't have the internet, nor in fact would you have a US of A.

[Troll Virus]

I said the world, when did America become the the world

Ask Uke, he'll tell you.

[Troll Virus]

Which is it? You're lost in your own arguments.

Not at all.
You can't take two sentences out of context then try to use them to fit your own needs.

Millions of people have dismissed Calzaghe, and that's why he is looking to gain some worldwide recognition now.

Yeah, I bet he just cries himself to sleep every night.

Being a local hero is nice, but it ain't the same as being a respected world champion.

*cough* WBO???

I know that you're trying to liken what Calzaghe did to Manfredo to what Roy Jones used to do when he would ask the refs to stop the fight before he seriously hurt his opponent. This was hardly the same case. Not only was Calzaghe slapping, but he was MISSING with his slaps! And on top of that, the ref stopped the fight!!!!

He wasn't even looking at Manfredo.
Meanwhile, Manfredo wasn't throwing anything back.
I'm glad the fight was stopped, because for one thing, it was boring as hell.

Fortunate? How am I fortunate? For not being banned? You think I care if I get banned here?

Yeah, I do.
I think nobody speaks to you in real life, and you treat this forum as a surrogate soapbox.

Only a fool or an idiot thinks that qualities like "guts" and "forgiveness" exist on a martial art website.

Oh really.

And only someone needy who has a deep desire to belong would donate that money to a website that isn't charitable.

There you go, starting a sentence with "And" again.
As for the money I'll be collecting from you.....
This is a 'free' forum, which costs money to run, so yes it is charitable.

The only element that should exist on a website such as this one is respect, and very few here have it and even less give it. Once someone breaks that rule of mutual respect with me, then there is none.

There's lack of respect and then there's downright low.
You were/are downright low.

Don't pretend that I have come here to be disrespectful. My posts are about MA and boxing. Its not until certain people have shown a persistent pattern of rudeness and disregard for courtesy that I've lost respect for them. For instance, look at the progression in this very thread. Watch and see how it went from a debate to you defending Calzaghe to the point where it got personal.

Now you can go back, read and acknowledge the origin of the hostility, or you can continue being locked up in your emotions about a case that you're clearly not making.

The choice is yours.

Nah, you're just ratty any time anyone talks back to you, or questions the self delusion you have that your opinion is somehow more informed than everyone elses.
STFU.

[Uke]

Aside from your cursing and cyber tough guy act, you're babbling about nonsense.

For instance, you write:

Nobody said it was important for Calzaghe to retire.

but just above you wrote:

My only concern, is that he should really be retiring at his age now.

Which is it? You're lost in your own arguments.

How can anyone with any real training background dismiss someone like Calzaghe in that way?

Millions of people have dismissed Calzaghe, and that's why he is looking to gain some worldwide recognition now. Being a local hero is nice, but it ain't the same as being a respected world champion. Just ask Dariusz Michalczewski, who hid away in Germany padding his record until he got beat by a boxer who wasn't supposed to even have a chance. And the only reason that ever happened is because Gonzalez was willing to travel to Germany. I bet Kohl had a heart attack.

I'll guarantee you that calzaghe knows a heck of a lot more about Hopkins than you doi.

You can't guarantee a thing! Your argument is weak as hell, and your sitting here attempting to make guarantees. You've already displayed you ignorance. Don't show your ass now.

You'd have to be blind not to see that Manfredo was out of his depth.
Like I said way back on this thread.
Calzaghe gave Manfredo a warning slap on the back of his head for turning his back, as if to say 'defend yourself at all times'
Delude yourself all you will about the 'superiority' of American Boxers.
If you think Calzaghe couldn't have knocked Manfredo's jaw clean off, you are delusional.

I know that you're trying to liken what Calzaghe did to Manfredo to what Roy Jones used to do when he would ask the refs to stop the fight before he seriously hurt his opponent. This was hardly the same case. Not only was Calzaghe slapping, but he was MISSING with his slaps! And on top of that, the ref stopped the fight!!!!

Didn't I already tell you not to start a sentence with "And"?

You did make reference to a forum member here in a singly low fashion.
You don't have the guts to be direct about it though.
Your comment was designed to be hurtful, to someone already in distress.
I personally, will never forgive you for that.
You're fortunate that Tant01 is a better man than me.
You're fortunate that the staff here are better men than me.

I'll donate the money I win from you to defend.net.

Fortunate? How am I fortunate? For not being banned? You think I care if I get banned here? Only a fool or an idiot thinks that qualities like "guts" and "forgiveness" exist on a martial art website. And only someone needy who has a deep desire to belong would donate that money to a website that isn't charitable. The only element that should exist on a website such as this one is respect, and very few here have it and even less give it. Once someone breaks that rule of mutual respect with me, then there is none.

Don't pretend that I have come here to be disrespectful. My posts are about MA and boxing. Its not until certain people have shown a persistent pattern of rudeness and disregard for courtesy that I've lost respect for them. For instance, look at the progression in this very thread. Watch and see how it went from a debate to you defending Calzaghe to the point where it got personal.

Now you can go back, read and acknowledge the origin of the hostility, or you can continue being locked up in your emotions about a case that you're clearly not making.

The choice is yours.

[medic06]

Well that's what we're now waiting for.
I'm not too keen on the 'Americana' theme I see running through some of these posts on here.

"Automobile in America,
Chromium steel in America,
Wire-spoke wheel in America,
Very big deal in America! "

I said the world, when did America become the the world

[wado_kai]

I am aware that Calzaghe is a world champion. However, it is not uncommon for a foreign champion to win a single belt(usually the WBO) and defend it against a string of bums that only serve to pad his record. It happens here in America as well! This is the same criticism I held Bernard Hopkins to until 2000! If you hide at one talentless division for 10 years and never seek challenges beyond the mandatory then you are padding your record and opening yourself to that kind of criticism! .

joe has hid from no one.. as i said.. warren has put in an offer to fight almost all of the top fighters, including roy jones! who refused to fight, look that up u will find i am right. FACT.hopefully this fight goes ah ead in july thought, good win for calzaghe. talentless division.. haha!!

Yes he can! But America is the Mecca of boxing, baseball, basketball and football(not soccer)! To dispute that would only reveal your own ignorance! Let Calzaghe fight where he may, but unless you go to where the challenges lie, you're a guppy .. A small fish in a big pond. A boxer has to define his career by doing great things, not by beating up men who are opponents and not contenders. Do you even know the difference?
.

mecca of boxing... typical yank! it is for americans, thats my point, americans think everything revolves around america. as i stated before the only reason shite boxers like valuev, wladimir etc that u mentioned is because americans pay them obscene amounts of money for being nothing more than average! and as i said he is champ... challengers need to go to him, but they WONT, how often can i stress, frank warren has tried to arrange fights with all the top fighters at the time they all refuse to fight calzaghe!! that is FACT. he HAS to fight mandatory title challenegers... other than that he can only fight people who will fight him!

The only one worth mentioning is coming to America! Its the place where opportunity for him to face the greatest challenges lie. Do you want me to name fighter like Roy Jones, Lou Del Valle, Eric Harding and Antonio Tarver who were only 7lbs away from Joe's current weight? Or should I name fighters like Hopkins, Taylor, Wright and even Felix Sturm(euro) who are only 8lbs smaller than Joe? He's never fought any of them, and its more than doubtful that all these men are afraid of Joe Calzaghe. .

no, its the place were the most amount of money is payed for average fighters! warren tried to arrange a deal with jone as i said, he backed out! again that is fact! i am not a 100% sure but i think tarver did as well, but he is shite anyway! why would he want to fight him? like i said top american boxer = world class fighter to americans. taylor just refused to fight joe, possibly will do for the 2nd time soon FACT, again not 100% sure but a think hopkins refused to fight calzaghe. wright.. there has never been any interest in that fight. why does calzaghe have to move to fight them? if they wer so good they would move to fight him to prove a point.. america fighters jump between divsions anyway.

Joe does have world recognition after earning the WBO belt, but his real recognition came after fight Lacy, which goes to show teach you something about the sport of boxing whether you like it or not. Hopkins isn't done, as he was done before and came back to put a beating on Tarver. He's more than game for Calzaghe. And Taylor has fought Hopkins twice and Wright once. That's more than anyone can say for Calzaghe, who was rocked and floored by Byron Mitchell. Mitchell has always been tough and strong, and that's what makes up for his lack of skill. That's why Sven Ottke beat him right before Calzaghe did. If that's the toughest opponent Joe Calzaghe has had, that says alot about Calzaghe, not Mitchell. .

bollucks!!!! it did not come after lacy!! he has had recognition since he started his career! hopkins is done... the guy is like 38 or sumit! that shows that hopkins is done he got beat of taylor twic!! thats why he retired.. so wud i if i got beat of a chump like taylor! tarver is just shit, nuff said.(a guy who made his name in a weak divsion after the likes of lewis is he not?) and if winky the ultimate defensive boxer can take the fight to taylor and rip him apart then what do u think calzaghe will do! everyone knows winky won that fight.

But like every eurofan, you always say its the AMERICANS that duck the euro fighters. It was the same claim when it came to Dariusz Michalczewski. Dariusz actually lost to Richard Hall in Germany the first time they fought, but the ref was told to stop the fight even though Hall was kicking Michalczewski's ass and was in route to a victory and possible KO. Did you see that fight? I did. Then later on, Julio Gonzalez beat Michalczewski in Germany after all the same shit you're talking now. No one ducked Michalczewski, and no one is ducking Calzaghe. Michalczewski got beat by men Roy Jones embarrassed in the ring, and I'm confident that if Calzaghe comes stateside or even agrees to fight Hopkins, Taylor or Wright in Wales he'll end up no different. .

dont give a shit about dariusz... it is FACT that roy jones taylor etc have refused to fight taylor.. and cover it up with some excuse!i will say it for the last time... frank warren has INITIATED talks for joe to fight a range of "elite" fighters... yet the wont agree to it. end up no different, well we will see if he fights jones in july, then if taylor gets some balls and ACCEPTS joes challenge for septemeber. oh and julio gonzalez is an american fighter.. sure sounds american doesnt he? he is mexican! mexican fighters certainly wipe the floor with american fighters.

Chris Eubanks hadn't done anything worth talking about since beating Nigel Benn 17 years ago in a very close fight. Since, he had gone on to lose more and more frequently. Twice to Collins before Calzaghe and twice to Thompson after. Beating a guy in that condition is hardly something to wave a flag about. .

yup guy was a total chump right enough.... hahaha.. if he was american he would have been considered an all time great ffs!

No one will fight Joe Calzaghe? Refer to the reply to #4. The second paragraph. I have no doubt that Calzahe is tricky, as most southpaws are. But I do know that it is the plight of eurohy hasnt he fought one yet?-boxing fans to convince the world that everyone is ducking their favorite fighter who fights in some obscure corner of the world where boxing isn't nearly as big. They said Roy didn't want to fight Nigel Benn until Benn was quoted as saying "Roy Jones puts the fear of god into me". Same ole same ole. .

ur #4 paragraph two was a load of shit tbh what does it half to do with joe? ... as i just said frank warren initiated talks with jones etc... they wouldnt fight... this is not debatable.. its fact! roy jones is now only offereing to fight him because its a last stab chance for him... he is done and he knows it.

Euro boxers are stiff, upright and move like robots. Many of them are aware of this and that's why they come to America seeking additional training (ala Klitschko's). Even the ones who try to have movement realize that they aren't properly schooled in the science, and even they come looking for additional help in improving ala Naseem Hamed. .

stupidest thing i have ever heard, not even worth replying to! wladimir is average, vitali smacked up everyone, additional training my arse! and he is heavyweight ffs.. how many do you know that can move, that was a daft example - wait a bet you come back with ali!? hamed was shit! enough said on him! but the only reason he was popular was because of the way he danced about the ring like an american, cocky little shit he was, barrera put an end to him!!!

Actually, its not. European fighters are popular in their corner of the world. American boxers who rise to the top and do great things are known worldwide. Name a european fighter that was ever as popular worldwide as Muhammad Ali, Sugar Ray Leonard, Mike Tyson or Roy Jones Jr? They are known all over the world, not just in America. Name just one. Ricky Hatton and the Klitschkos aren't a fraction as popular or respected as fighters as the ones I mentioned. You can't name a single euro-boxer on that level because one doesn't exist. .

again ignorant america comment, america = world! hahahaahaha.. no wonder they were famous u have just mentioned three of the greatest fighters of all time!! jones however is not ( and and i did i mention refused to fight joe). name one.. how about joe calzaghe? hatton is hugely respected... but yet again u assume cause he is not in america the rest of the world doesnt! he is!! oh and ali... his popularity rocketed when he told the americans to go stuff themselves! he is about as much an american fighter as i am. the two of his biggest fights in his career were with out america.

This is the same argument that people used to use when arguing for Bernard Hopkins! A padded record is a padded record. The super-middleweight division has been dead since Roy Jones left it, but you found it to be exilerating since Calzaghe was there. .

yeah..because he is an excellent fighter... as i mentioned he has the ability to make any fighter look like a chump!

You can think whatever you want. But the fact is that the only time Euro-fighters enjoy success is when a division becomes weak like the heavyweight division is. Need proof?

Hatton only beat Tszyu after Tszyu had a 2 year layoff and was already contemplating retirement. And in that fight, Tszyu scored a knowdown that would have dramatically changed the complexion of that fight. Three years prior and Tszyu would have picked Hatton apart. .

Calzaghe has been and stayed quiet in his tiny corner after Jones went up to light heavyweight. He has plenty of opportunities to fight guys like Hopkins who is smaller, or Jones, Harding and Tarver who are 7lbs larger. He's done none of that. He's picking now to come to America now that Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins have gotten old, and he feels he can pitty-pat Taylor to death. .

The Wladimir Kiltschko, Nicolay Valuev and Oleg Maskaev have only enjoyed their success since the men who held that division down got old. Against a prime Holyfield, Lewis, Tyson and Bowe they would have been knocked out. The heavyweight division hasn't been this weak in decades, and that's why they chose now to come to America to fight. They know they had a great shot to do some things.

joe still isnt going to america, he doesnt need to... not when he gets 35,000 fans in his home country. its liike roy ones said, people have to go to challenge him! and this really is the last time i am gona mention this, frank warren has started talks with and tried to arrange fights with the like of jones etc but none of them agreed! u cannot debate that fact! and you consider a divsion to be weak if there isnt an american fighter at the top... and if there is all of a sudden they are an elite or world class fighter such as taylor.

they only enjoyed success yeah cus there was no one else, yeah whats your point? they are all shite anyway who u mentioned! bowe was a joke, tyson was possibly the greatest ever fighter (calzaghe on paper a think though), oh and lewis was british btw and oh who beat tyson(although granted it might have been different with a tyson of his early days), they chose to go to america because as i said, the reached the top then they went to america because ameicans are daft enough to pay stupid amounts of money for average fighters!


you say joe hasn't fought anyone, well its not his fault people have refused to fight him! if you were taylor and that good, would you have chose to fight cory spinks or calzaghe? and thats fact!

[Tom Yum]

Well that's what we're now waiting for.
I'm not too keen on the 'Americana' theme I see running through some of these posts on here.

"Automobile in America,
Chromium steel in America,
Wire-spoke wheel in America,
Very big deal in America! "

Al Gore invented the internet....

[Troll Virus]

Uke is abrasive, and I do think he is out of line for going after Tant. But he does have a point. All the great fighters have been defined by their opposition. Until Calzaghe beats the best America has to offer, check that, the WORLD has to offer and unifies the title he will never get the recognition he deserves. . . .

Well that's what we're now waiting for.
I'm not too keen on the 'Americana' theme I see running through some of these posts on here.

"Automobile in America,
Chromium steel in America,
Wire-spoke wheel in America,
Very big deal in America! "

[medic06]

Uke is abrasive, and I do think he is out of line for going after Tant. But he does have a point. All the great fighters have been defined by their opposition. Until Calzaghe beats the best America has to offer, check that, the WORLD has to offer and unifies the title he will never get the recognition he deserves. . . .

[Troll Virus]

What the hell does that have to do with Calzaghe missing the majority of his shots? What does that reply have to do with Calzaghe throwing slaps and hammerfists? How can it be a lecture on boxing when you haven't said anything about boxing? The stoppage was uncalled for. Calzaghe missed 8 out of 11 punches in the shoe-shining flurry he threw that stopped the fight, and the ones he landed did next to no damage! Lecture on that.

You'd have to be blind not to see that Manfredo was out of his depth.
Like I said way back on this thread.
Calzaghe gave Manfredo a warning slap on the back of his head for turning his back, as if to say 'defend yourself at all times'
Delude yourself all you will about the 'superiority' of American Boxers.
If you think Calzaghe couldn't have knocked Manfredo's jaw clean off, you are delusional.
The fact that he didn't. makes him a credit to the sport.

Why is it so important for Calzaghe to retire now? Is it because he's considering fighting in America? Of course it is.

What age are you?
You write like you're still at school.
Calzaghe has had a lifetime in the sport.
Nobody said it was important for Calzaghe to retire.

And because of that, we now see Troll Virus hoping for Joe to duck out now with his padded record intact.

Oh **** off you dickhead.
You are an arsehole!
How can anyone with any real training background dismiss someone like Calzaghe in that way?

Bernard Hopkins went pro in 1988, and just went up to Lt. heavyweight to defeat Antonio Tarver. Do you know why? Hopkins has nothing to prove at this juncture. So why did he do it? Because great champions want to meet challenges. They want to define a legacy. They want to excel among their peers(champions), not among opponents meant to pad a record.

I'll guarantee you that calzaghe knows a heck of a lot more about Hopkins than you doi.

You obviously don't know boxing otherwise you'd recognize this. The parallels are undeniable. Calzaghe has plenty of quality opposition around him, heavier or lighter, but thus far he's refused to seek any of it. And all you can do to even seem competent in this discussion is defend Calzaghe's choice to make the decisions he's made.

STFU and see what happens.

In the meantime, you owe a huge apology to Tant, not to mention everyone else here.

N.B I still haven't resorted to calling you "pUKE" like most folks here.

[Troll Virus]

I can't even call what he does a flurry. It was shoe shining. Pitty pat slaps that don't even land, but make it look like he's doing more than he's actually doing. As you said, out of 11 he landed 3 slaps at the most. But when guys like Troll Virus and Wado kai watch the fights, all they see is their hero winning.

Calzaghe is far from being my "Hero".
He is a good Boxer.
You've typed yourself into a hole though.
You should really have taken my advice and gone looking for footage of Calzaghe and other (boring)"Euro-fighters"

I accept. The money mean less to me than the disappointment that you'll experience.

Your confidence is noted, as is your commitment to the bet.

And as far as me making reference to a forum member... if I wanted to state something specifically to someone here, I would have like I have in the past.

Didn't I already tell you not to start a sentence with "And"?

You did make reference to a forum member here in a singly low fashion.
You don't have the guts to be direct about it though.
Your comment was designed to be hurtful, to someone already in distress.
I personally, will never forgive you for that.
You're fortunate that Tant01 is a better man than me.
You're fortunate that the staff here are better men than me.

I'll donate the money I win from you to defend.net.

[Uke]

Don't want this to be a lecture on boxing or anything, but this was a no-contest bout from the start.

What the hell does that have to do with Calzaghe missing the majority of his shots? What does that reply have to do with Calzaghe throwing slaps and hammerfists? How can it be a lecture on boxing when you haven't said anything about boxing? The stoppage was uncalled for. Calzaghe missed 8 out of 11 punches in the shoe-shining flurry he threw that stopped the fight, and the ones he landed did next to no damage! Lecture on that.

My only concern, is that he should really be retiring at his age now.

Shane Mosley and Oscar DelaHoya both went pro at or around the same year that Calzaghe did, and they've fought much harder battles against much better fighters than Calzaghe has. They are still actively fighting and seeking opponents.

Why is it so important for Calzaghe to retire now? Is it because he's considering fighting in America? Of course it is.

And because of that, we now see Troll Virus hoping for Joe to duck out now with his padded record intact. Bernard Hopkins went pro in 1988, and just went up to Lt. heavyweight to defeat Antonio Tarver. Do you know why? Hopkins has nothing to prove at this juncture. So why did he do it? Because great champions want to meet challenges. They want to define a legacy. They want to excel among their peers(champions), not among opponents meant to pad a record.

Bernard Hopkins had a padded record in my opinion too before he fought Keith Holmes. He had avoided every other title holder for years. Then in 2000, he began making up for lost time. He fought fights that fans wanted to see. He fought the then undefeated and highly favored champion Tito Trinidad, which is what really got him recognition. Then afterward, he fought matches that defined his legacy, not padded his record. He eventually unified his division. Had Hopkins not done that he would be in the same boat that Calzaghe is in. Defended one belt(IBF) in a weak division for years hoping to break Carlos Monzon's record, which would have been a much weaker legacy to leave.

You obviously don't know boxing otherwise you'd recognize this. The parallels are undeniable. Calzaghe has plenty of quality opposition around him, heavier or lighter, but thus far he's refused to seek any of it. And all you can do to even seem competent in this discussion is defend Calzaghe's choice to make the decisions he's made.