what forms do you do in kungfu?

[Thai Bri]

No, I do not emphasise Thai Boxing all the time. And you seem to have forgotten to post the examples of where I said it was the be all and end all. You are wrong.

San Shou training is very similar to Thai Boxing training, and they have ver similar rules.

The world is NOT waking up to the power of true Kung Fu at all. But people in the Kung Fu world would like to pretend it is.

Bruce Lee was a good example of someone who REJECTED Kung Fu. He slagged it off here, thee and everywhere. That is why he presented his own concepts!!!!!

I may well need a shrink. But you need a dictionary to look up the word "truth". You don't seem to know what it is.

[jmd161]

No mate. Forms to "train and drill" techniques are nothing like as effective as striking aids and partners. This of someone practising tennis without an opponent, racquet or ball. Not too good, is it!

It's funny how all MMA ppl do exactly what you do. They turn your words to fit their argument. I never said you use a form to drill or train techniques. If you read what i wrote ,it says you MUST break down each technique in a form ,and then Drill and apply them.

Forms are a GUIDE to show you an example of how a technique is supposed to flow from one to the next. It IS NOT meant to be used in that EXACT manner.

But i guess you would'nt know that since you went to Mc Dojo's and Mc Kwoons!!

Boxers 2-3 punch combinations, tennis players warming up and football players practicing a play that their coach has designed for them are not related to Katas at all. Where are the lengthy pre determined moves that must be done in an exact manner each and every time? Nowhere. Go to any boxing gym and show them a Kata. Ask them if they do anything similar. Desparate.

Well first of all are we talking about American football or Soccer?

Because in american football a route for a receiver must be done exactly the way the play/form was designed!! That is how the qutaerback knows where to throw the ball ,unless they audible out of the play.

Interesting. Tell me more. But I can feel my Fantasy Detector kicking in! Haw haw haw!

Well unlike your TMA training at your Mc Dojo and Mc Kwoon. We spar against each other in non predetermined matches. Without gloves,pads,or any protection at all. In the same manner in which most MMA schools fight ,but without the ring or floor padding.

We fight on a concrete floor ,because real street fights happen more on concrete than padded rings,cages,or floors.

I also train with several MMA fighters.

So, you finally managed to admit that the student is in danger. But only becasue they havent experienced anything...... So, of course, they have less preparation. You just can't bring yourself to say the P word! Les change it then. How about 2 forty year olds. One is the trained and experienced street cop, and the other was a florist..... Which is in most danger now? Durrrrrrrr.

Depends..

(1) Where are they? ~It makes a difference if they're in Da Hood or at the mall.

(2) What are they doing? ~ Are they bent over checking the oil under the hood of the car or just walking down the street.

(3) How are they dressed? ~ Are they dressed pretty nice or like the average street person.

There are factors why targets are chosen in street violence. You being a cop should already know that Bri!! If it's just two normal guys walking down the street in normal attire ,and nothing in particular about them? Then neither one is likely in any danger.

You seem to think that all criminals are stupid thugs that don't scope out their targets. In most robberies or street crimes ,the attacker did not just up and randomly pick out their target. They looked and saw something that attracted them to their target. Then they watched them made a choice and went with it.

Here, we are getting close to the nub of it. You may learn something. No Jeff. A well trained and experienced street cop will do a great many things that an unpreapred individual will not. He will not go into dangerous areas. He will be aware of people who are near and may cause a threat. He will back away from developing situations. He will be more able to talk his way out of trouble. He will be more able to make an effective pr emptive strike. Etc etc etc. This is whee your lack of knowledge is. You have no appreciation of the psychological and territorial issues at all. Thats why you think its all down to the size of the dog in the fight. Durrrrrrrrr.

I'm more aware of things then YOU think!!

You underestimate people on the street Bri!!

Many of today's so called street thugs are very perceptive as to what's going on in and around there areas. When i sold drugs we were very aware of every car or truck that the police used. When they busted someone we looked at all the faces and vechicles they were driving. So when they tried to come thru the area in a bus,fed ex or UPS truck or any undercover vechicle. We were way ahead of them.

People become victims because they underestimate the streets and the people in them!!

Its not unsimilar to driving a car. Of course anything can happen on the road, and anyone can be involved in a crash. But the guy with the best training and experience is far far less likely to do so. It really is as simple as that.

Yeah, ok then since you bring that into question. Who's likely to win a race in the qtr mile. A trained racer in a station wagon or a young street thug in a suped up corvette? The trained driver has all the experince in the world on his side ,but what good does that do him against that corvette???

The point is sometimes you training does'nt even factor into the situation at hand!!

You knob.

jeff

[Thai Bri]

No mate. I've proven beyond doubt that it is you who mis quotes people, and then slates the words that they didn't say. And totaly fails to ack it up.

So, forms are just a guide. Just an "example" to show you how these techniques can be established? Haw haw haw! Lets see the equivalent for tennis....or baseball.... or anything!

I knew you were talking about American football. Are there any American Footballers here? Do any of you think that walking through a play is anything like Kata? I doubt it.

Sparring? Full contact or not? Semi contact is merely another way of training your body to do it wrong. The distance and mechanics are all messed up. But, if you d full contact sparring without safety equipment, either you are all injured all of the time or none of you can hit very hard.

As for the locations re the students and officers..... The only relevance is that the officers just wont be in the most dangerous locatons. They are better prepared, and avoid the dangers where they can. And crimninals "scoping" for victims? Where did I imply that all criminals are "stupid thugs" that don't scope for their targets? This approach is probably the most common approach of the lot. Once again you are second guessing my views and getting it wrong.

The ironic thing is, this knowledge helps immensely in preparing for the streets. It helps greatly in target hardening yourself, and encouraging the bad guy to find another target instead of you. The cops will know this and act on it. This is yet another way they will be prepared. The students will not. Your arguments prove mine. Again.

You actually have some knowledge of how these things develop, but have yet to make the leap to actually USE and APPLY that knowledge in preparation.

And you did it again. You outline how the thug can prepare for the street also. Doesn't it strike you as illogical that all these examples of how someone can be prepared (whether they be the good guy or the bad guy) somehow (in your head) illustrate of how you cannot be prepared?

"Yeah, ok then since you bring that into question. Who's likely to win a race in the qtr mile. A trained racer in a station wagon or a young street thug in a suped up corvette? The trained driver has all the experince in the world on his side ,but what good does that do him against that corvette???2

The guy in the souped up corvette will win. The trained racer has not prepared for the race. He has not brought suitable equipment. The corvette guy has better equipment. He is better prepared. But it is a ridiculous example. What trained racer would race under those circumsances? Whats you next example going to be? Who will win between a trained and experienced puppy dog against a hungry lion?

You have proven my point again.

You have a mental block on this. Better preparation equals better chances of survival. It is irrelevant that you may lose one day. That does not mean that you cannot prepare.

You are an idiot. Haw haw haw!

[Thai Bri]

Its really very simple. There are many ways to prepare for the street.

You have outlined quite a few yourself.

[KopyKat]

Bri has got some solid points, id have to agree!

[jmd161]

No mate. I've proven beyond doubt that it is you who mis quotes people, and then slates the words that they didn't say. And totaly fails to ack it up.

Bri, I just did'nt feel like going back through pages of post. Call it what you want.

So, forms are just a guide. Just an "example" to show you how these techniques can be established?

Bri, why do i have to keep explaing forms?

Forms are a means to teach someone a large group of techniques in one shot. At the sametime they give you an idea of how to flow in and out of techniques. They give you a means to practice techniques when your teacher is not around.

If a form is taught properly ,which it's obvious that you've never learned a form properly. (No joking here i'm being serious)

It will teach you many things that you can learn on your own ,if you lost your teacher. 75% of the TMA schools i've seen do forms or katas wrong or for show. Forms are not done at one constant speed from start to finish ,but yet many ppl teach them that way. It would take too much space and time to explain everything contained in forms.

Some techniques are there to build certain things or train certain areas of the body. Some techniques teach you how to build short explosive power. That is why you must understand the form and the movements. Every movement ,and technique has a purpose.

Haw haw haw! Lets see the equivalent for tennis....or baseball.... or anything!

Bri, you asked me to show you any other thing that did drills in thin air ,and i did.

Baseball when they put the weighted rings on the bat and swing it through the air or sometimes done without the rings. The batter just takes practice swings through the air. Like a golfer that practices his put or swing in plain air before actually making any contact with the golf ball.

Each does it for a reason and purpose ,unless you're involved in these sports deeply. You don't understand why ,same with TMA's and their methods for doing forms in thin air.

I knew you were talking about American football. Are there any American Footballers here?

I don't know where here is ,I don't read minds!!

I do know that there is a world league of american football in europe though!!

Do any of you think that walking through a play is anything like Kata? I doubt it.

I think walking thru a play is a lot like kata.

Because you're walking thru the movements to get use to them ,and an understanding of what you're trying to accomplish. By walking thru the movements of a football play you see what type of looks different defenses might give you.

By walking thru a form ,you're doing the samething pretty much. You walking thru the movements to get use to the techniques. You then try to understand why you're using these certain techniques ,and the therioes behind them. You then drill and try to apply these techniques in different ways. Once you have that down you add the techniques that work best for you from the form to your skill set. You know have a group of techniques that you should feel very comfortable with and you work them until they become second nature.

Sparring? Full contact or not? Semi contact is merely another way of training your body to do it wrong. The distance and mechanics are all messed up. But, if you d full contact sparring without safety equipment, either you are all injured all of the time or none of you can hit very hard.

Well, i said semi contact a long time ago ,but you seem to keep bringing that up. We train hard we fight more than spar. It it goes to the ground we continue it does'nt stop there. Do i get hurt? yes i get hurt. Have i been hit very hard? yes i have to the face,ribs,sternum,eye,and other areas. My sifu believes in being able to withstand pain. You can'nt SUFFER pain in a real fight if you train with gloves,pads,and protection!!!

As for the locations re the students and officers..... The only relevance is that the officers just wont be in the most dangerous locatons. They are better prepared, and avoid the dangers where they can. And crimninals "scoping" for victims? Where did I imply that all criminals are "stupid thugs" that don't scope for their targets? This approach is probably the most common approach of the lot. Once again you are second guessing my views and getting it wrong.

Bri, No! You are missing my point altogeteher. I don't just focus on one area or one picture. I focus on the ENTIRE picture.

Crime does'nt just happen in dangerous areas or locatons. That's why ppl get caught unprepared or don't notice until it's too late. You don't have to be in the street to be a victim of street violence. Street violence happens to ppl everyday in their OWN homes!!

The ironic thing is, this knowledge helps immensely in preparing for the streets. It helps greatly in target hardening yourself, and encouraging the bad guy to find another target instead of you. The cops will know this and act on it. This is yet another way they will be prepared. The students will not. Your arguments prove mine. Again.

Bri, the point you keep missing is this.

YES you can try and prepare with reality based training. YES it will help ALOT more than NO training at all ,but it DOES NOT make you PREPARED in any area. YES you will be more aware and BETTER prepared than most, but YOU ARE NOT PREPARED!!!

You actually have some knowledge of how these things develop, but have yet to make the leap to actually USE and APPLY that knowledge in preparation.

I have alot of knowlege on this stuff ,i've been on both sides of the gun!!!

And you did it again. You outline how the thug can prepare for the street also. Doesn't it strike you as illogical that all these examples of how someone can be prepared (whether they be the good guy or the bad guy) somehow (in your head) illustrate of how you cannot be prepared?

It only shows that the thug tries to prepare like the cop or anyone else ,but he can't be prepared ,because there are too many uinknowns!!

The guy in the souped up corvette will win. The trained racer has not prepared for the race. He has not brought suitable equipment. The corvette guy has better equipment. He is better prepared. But it is a ridiculous example.

It was a point that no matter how much you train ,something's can't be prepared for.

What trained racer would race under those circumsances?

It was a point that you can train and have all the experience in the world ,but sometime you don't have a choice or an option to use your training.

Whats you next example going to be? Who will win between a trained and experienced puppy dog against a hungry lion?

Depends on what they're doing and why??

You have proven my point again.

You have a mental block on this. Better preparation equals better chances of survival. It is irrelevant that you may lose one day. That does not mean that you cannot prepare.

If you feel i've proven your point? FINE!

I've been in the streets my whole life pretty much ,so i see things different from someone that just patrols there only hrs a day.

You are an idiot. Haw haw haw!

You'll grow up one day i guess....

jeff

[konghan]

No, I do not emphasise Thai Boxing all the time. And you seem to have forgotten to post the examples of where I said it was the be all and end all. You are wrong.

San Shou training is very similar to Thai Boxing training, and they have ver similar rules.

The world is NOT waking up to the power of true Kung Fu at all. But people in the Kung Fu world would like to pretend it is.

Bruce Lee was a good example of someone who REJECTED Kung Fu. He slagged it off here, thee and everywhere. That is why he presented his own concepts!!!!!

I may well need a shrink. But you need a dictionary to look up the word "truth". You don't seem to know what it is.

So much hatred & fustration. No, Muay thai is similar to san Shou they just took away the takedowns.

The world disect or "steal" techniques from kung fu & call it their own.

Bruce Lee didn`t reject kung fu he help introduce it to the public & his training is what original kung fu masters have been doing all along.

Your persistant & crusade in this forum is all about anti-TMA with deep passion of hatred & fustration.

[jmd161]

konghan,

Unless you're enjoying this as much as i am??

You wasting your time with Bri.

Anyone that knows anything about Bruce Lee knows that why he down played forms in public ,he did practice them on his own. They would also know that he was rejected by Yip Man when he returned to Hong Kong to try ,and learn more Wing Chun forms!!

It's happened for centuries ppl stealing from TCMA ,and calling it theirs.


jeff

[Thai Bri]

Hmmmm, so poor old Bruce was rejected by Yip Man. Right. Yes. Ahem.

JMD - Forms seem to be anything and everything, from swinging a golf club to walking through a play on a football field. In fact I'm beginning to wonder if there is any type of movement we can do that is NOT a form. The fact is, the best fighters in the world (and I mean those that can verify their fights, not "secret" Kung Fu death matches) do not use forms.

So, to clarify, your sparring is semi contact, but the contact is so hard that its more like fighting. Yes. Right. Hmmmmmm....... Nonsense. Again.

"YES you can try and prepare with reality based training. YES it will help ALOT more than NO training at all ,but it DOES NOT make you PREPARED in any area. YES you will be more aware and BETTER prepared than most, but YOU ARE NOT PREPARED!!!"

Actually this is the first time that youi have admitted that you can be prepared in any way, shape or form. I have repeatedly stated that nothing will make you invincible, but you have repeatedly said that you cannot prepare. But you're position is beginning to change. I wonder why. Maybe its because you're slowly realising how stupid you look?

I like the bit where you thik there may be a case for the puppy beating the lion. Doesn't that tell you how silly youre being?

But this is the best bit..... "I've been in the streets my whole life pretty much ,so i see things different from someone that just patrols there only hrs a day."

You dick head. Do you think they make me hide in the cupboard when I'm off duty?

Lets summarise your arguments.

1. You can't be prepared, but you can prepare.
2. Forms are just like football players walking and golfers swinging. And just about anything else involving someone moving.
3. Criminals can prepare, so you can't be prepared. But you can prepare.
4. You spar semi contact in a full contact way, and hit each other so hard that you don't get injured too much to train, and its more like fighting anyway. Type stuff.
5. You've prepared by getting a gun, but rule 1 applies.
6. Thai Bri has said all kinds of stupid things, even though you can't find any of them, because he hasn't said any of them, but he must be stupid for saying them even though he didn't say them.


It goes on and on. You talk out of your arse mate. You mis-quote and go off at a tangent all te time. You've even said you're stopping to post a couple of times, and then carried on. Everything you say is meaningless, and only bears any relationship to reality by coincidence.

You said something blatantly stupid, and just couldn't bring yourself to admit it. But now you're trying to subtely change your tune to avoid feeling so gormless.

Like I said. You were likeably stupid when you used to prattle on about how deadly Black Tiger Kung Fu was. But now you're just a sad wanker.

Bon Voyage! Haw haw haw!

[jmd161]

Hmmmm, so poor old Bruce was rejected by Yip Man. Right. Yes. Ahem.

JMD - Forms seem to be anything and everything, from swinging a golf club to walking through a play on a football field. In fact I'm beginning to wonder if there is any type of movement we can do that is NOT a form. The fact is, the best fighters in the world (and I mean those that can verify their fights, not "secret" Kung Fu death matches) do not use forms.

So, to clarify, your sparring is semi contact, but the contact is so hard that its more like fighting. Yes. Right. Hmmmmmm....... Nonsense. Again.

"YES you can try and prepare with reality based training. YES it will help ALOT more than NO training at all ,but it DOES NOT make you PREPARED in any area. YES you will be more aware and BETTER prepared than most, but YOU ARE NOT PREPARED!!!"

Actually this is the first time that youi have admitted that you can be prepared in any way, shape or form. I have repeatedly stated that nothing will make you invincible, but you have repeatedly said that you cannot prepare. But you're position is beginning to change. I wonder why. Maybe its because you're slowly realising how stupid you look?

I like the bit where you thik there may be a case for the puppy beating the lion. Doesn't that tell you how silly youre being?

But this is the best bit..... "I've been in the streets my whole life pretty much ,so i see things different from someone that just patrols there only hrs a day."

You dick head. Do you think they make me hide in the cupboard when I'm off duty?

Lets summarise your arguments.

1. You can't be prepared, but you can prepare.
2. Forms are just like football players walking and golfers swinging. And just about anything else involving someone moving.
3. Criminals can prepare, so you can't be prepared. But you can prepare.
4. You spar semi contact in a full contact way, and hit each other so hard that you don't get injured too much to train, and its more like fighting anyway. Type stuff.
5. You've prepared by getting a gun, but rule 1 applies.
6. Thai Bri has said all kinds of stupid things, even though you can't find any of them, because he hasn't said any of them, but he must be stupid for saying them even though he didn't say them.


It goes on and on. You talk out of your arse mate. You mis-quote and go off at a tangent all te time. You've even said you're stopping to post a couple of times, and then carried on. Everything you say is meaningless, and only bears any relationship to reality by coincidence.

You said something blatantly stupid, and just couldn't bring yourself to admit it. But now you're trying to subtely change your tune to avoid feeling so gormless.

Like I said. You were likeably stupid when you used to prattle on about how deadly Black Tiger Kung Fu was. But now you're just a sad wanker.

Bon Voyage! Haw haw haw!

HA HA HA HA LOFL

"YOU" think i'm the sad one or wanker HA HA HA HA.....ok!!!

You need to read what you wrote and rethink your postion!! HA HA HA HA....

That has to be the funniest thing i've ever read lol lol lol ......

jeff

[konghan]

Hmmmm, so poor old Bruce was rejected by Yip Man. Right. Yes. Ahem.

JMD - Forms seem to be anything and everything, from swinging a golf club to walking through a play on a football field. In fact I'm beginning to wonder if there is any type of movement we can do that is NOT a form. The fact is, the best fighters in the world (and I mean those that can verify their fights, not "secret" Kung Fu death matches) do not use forms.

So, to clarify, your sparring is semi contact, but the contact is so hard that its more like fighting. Yes. Right. Hmmmmmm....... Nonsense. Again.

"YES you can try and prepare with reality based training. YES it will help ALOT more than NO training at all ,but it DOES NOT make you PREPARED in any area. YES you will be more aware and BETTER prepared than most, but YOU ARE NOT PREPARED!!!"

Actually this is the first time that youi have admitted that you can be prepared in any way, shape or form. I have repeatedly stated that nothing will make you invincible, but you have repeatedly said that you cannot prepare. But you're position is beginning to change. I wonder why. Maybe its because you're slowly realising how stupid you look?

I like the bit where you thik there may be a case for the puppy beating the lion. Doesn't that tell you how silly youre being?

But this is the best bit..... "I've been in the streets my whole life pretty much ,so i see things different from someone that just patrols there only hrs a day."

You dick head. Do you think they make me hide in the cupboard when I'm off duty?

Lets summarise your arguments.

1. You can't be prepared, but you can prepare.
2. Forms are just like football players walking and golfers swinging. And just about anything else involving someone moving.
3. Criminals can prepare, so you can't be prepared. But you can prepare.
4. You spar semi contact in a full contact way, and hit each other so hard that you don't get injured too much to train, and its more like fighting anyway. Type stuff.
5. You've prepared by getting a gun, but rule 1 applies.
6. Thai Bri has said all kinds of stupid things, even though you can't find any of them, because he hasn't said any of them, but he must be stupid for saying them even though he didn't say them.


It goes on and on. You talk out of your arse mate. You mis-quote and go off at a tangent all te time. You've even said you're stopping to post a couple of times, and then carried on. Everything you say is meaningless, and only bears any relationship to reality by coincidence.

You said something blatantly stupid, and just couldn't bring yourself to admit it. But now you're trying to subtely change your tune to avoid feeling so gormless.

Like I said. You were likeably stupid when you used to prattle on about how deadly Black Tiger Kung Fu was. But now you're just a sad wanker.

Bon Voyage! Haw haw haw!

Very trouble soul, you shouldn`t be allowed to train in MA becuase you are a walking tiking bomb. You need to do some meditation try yoga or tai chi to calm yourself down. Breath in-breath out.

[sherwinc]

in KungFu, The more the beautiful she is, the more she is deadly......

[jmd161]

also ask your veteran instructor there if they are familiar with underworld???????

honestly, i just want to know it......

Just something to think about.


jeff

[sherwinc]

sorry, movie influenced ;-)

kungfu in a martial arts movie world

kungfu with guns...... most of the films kungfu is involved, the best in science fictions, the beauty of the art of kungfu.......

"THE MORE THE BEAUTIFULL SHE IS, THE MORE SHE IS DEADLY"

almost all films...... KUNGFU

[ddrive]

Let's get back to the original post!!

So can we all give a rundown on what's disciplines we've learned in kung fu? I thought that's what this post was about.