chinese death touch dim mak

[eXcessiveForce]

[MODERATOR]

I would like to ask everyone participating in this thread to remain civil. This is a discussion forum and everyone is allowed their own views.

Personal attacks are uncalled for and if need be I will ban people making them.

thanks for your cooperation.

Excessiveforce

[DimMak]

[MODERATOR]

I would like to ask everyone participating in this thread to remain civil. This is a discussion forum and everyone is allowed their own views.

Personal attacks are uncalled for and if need be I will ban people making them.

thanks for your cooperation.

Excessiveforce

Coming from both sides I believe to be failed attempts at humor...Nonetheless my sincere apologies for going off topic.

[DimMak]

Known in Cantonese as dim mak and in Japanese as kyusho jitsu, the touch of death is said to be something like acupuncture's evil twin. The idea is that chi, or energy, flows through the body along lines called meridians. A blow or squeeze applied to certain pressure points on these lines will supposedly put the whammy on the victim's chi, leading to incapacitation or death. Though none of the techniques of dim mak seems likely to work consistently as advertised, medical journals describe many incidents in which a seemingly mild trauma results in disproportionately serious injury, and the sites of some such traumas correlate with dim mak pressure points. Cases like these include:

Commotio cordis, also known as cardiac concussion. This is a syndrome in which a nonpenetrating impact to the chest causes heart failure but little or no structural damage. The classic victim is a kid or young adult who takes a baseball, hockey puck, or other hard object in the chest, but a 44-year-old teacher died when she caught an elbow while breaking up a fight at school. About half the time the victim collapses immediately, and in the balance of cases within a minute or two. Death is thought to result from ventricular fibrillation, a state in which the lower heart chambers start fluttering and stop pumping blood. One study of 128 cases found that 84 percent of the victims died, and nearly all the survivors received prompt defibrillation. Relatively little force is required for the killing blow--one researcher estimates that the blunt instrument need be moving at only 30 mph.

*Possibly now one will understand my Dim Mak correlation of the Steve Allen automobile accident and minor chest bump to the steering wheel...with correlation once again being the key word*

In a 1999 report in the Journal of Sports Medicine and Physical Fitness, C. Terry et al tested a dozen participants in a demonstration of kyusho jitsu pressure-point techniques intended to produce "knockouts." Experts hit the volunteers with successive blows at prescribed spots, e.g., just above the right wrist, just above the right elbow, and in the middle of the back. The recurring result: a "period of unresponsiveness" lasting from 11 to 55 seconds. The tests, which included EEGs and the like, showed no loss of blood flow to the brain or other obvious physiological cause. Were the KOees going into a hypnosislike trance or faking it? The authors think not, commenting, "The exact mechanism for this phenomenon remains uncertain." I'm not about to invoke chi and meridians, but it's possible there's more going on here than we currently understand.

*There is your documentation in modern medicine that you seek*

This was written by CECIL ADAMS or straightdope

[fwtaichi]

Dim Mak and other strangeness

Here is the truth as I see it:

I have never seen any demonstrable effect of Dim Mak, therefore it exists in possibility only for me. (Dim Mak means poison hand, the eye killing thing is something else)
The ability to kill someone by looking at them is likewise a possibility. Once again I cannot say it is an actual or impossible feat as I have never observed the phenomenon.
In my experience there are places on the human body that hurt really bad when hit. (Actual phenomenon observed and experienced)
A sufficiently powerful blow will in fact kill the recipient of said blow regardless of the target hit. (Possible phenomenon supported by medical research)
To paraphrase Arthur C. Clarke: If I had $100 to bet on the existence of Dim Mak and The Death Gaze (for lack of a better term). I'd bet $10 on the Death Gaze, $40 on Dim Mak, and keep $50 for myself.
In closing I think that anyone who tries to make you pay for something not easily proved (like Dim Mak) is someone to be wary of lest you end up being less than satisfied with the knowledge he or she provides you with.

[47MartialMan]

Yeah keep it civil. Unless someone lashes at me first.

However, there is no proven correlation between common accidnets via trauma and dim mak. This is all speculation.

Most of the meredians are not acuurate but folklore.

[fwtaichi]

Martial Man

Right you are. I was simply stating that sufficient trauma could appear to be Dim Mak when it could just be the strength and coordination of the striking party killing a man outright. If I were struck and killed I doubt I'd quibble over what caused it. Point is that Dim Mak is possible, Death by curses is possible, extraterrestrial life is possible. Anything is possible so long as we cannot observe it. When someone demonstrates Dim Mak in a very real, very replicable way under fairly strenuous scrutiny it remains in what Albert Einstein called "the procession of the Damned"... along with Yeti, Bigfoot, Ogopogo and other such phenomena they are only possible.

[DimMak]

[QUOTE=47MartialMan]

However, there is no proven correlation between common accidnets via trauma and dim mak.

THE CORRELATION IS IN THE IMPACT TO THE CHEST AREA 47MartialMan, NOT BETWEEN COMMON ACCIDENTS AND DIM MAK. THE IMPACT TO THE CHEST AREA COULD HAVE BEEN DONE BY A STEERING WHEEL, BASEBALL, HOCKEY PUCK, ELBOW OR HAND. THE FIRST THREE EXAMPLES WOULD ALL BE COMMON ACCIDENTS, THE LAST TWO EXAMPLES COULD ALSO, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE EXAMPLES OF A DIM MAK STRIKE.

[47MartialMan]

[QUOTE=DimMak]

However, there is no proven correlation between common accidnets via trauma and dim mak.

THE CORRELATION IS IN THE IMPACT TO THE CHEST AREA 47MartialMan, NOT BETWEEN COMMON ACCIDENTS AND DIM MAK. THE IMPACT TO THE CHEST AREA COULD HAVE BEEN DONE BY A STEERING WHEEL, BASEBALL, HOCKEY PUCK, ELBOW OR HAND. THE FIRST THREE EXAMPLES WOULD ALL BE COMMON ACCIDENTS, THE LAST TWO EXAMPLES COULD ALSO, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE EXAMPLES OF A DIM MAK STRIKE.

The last two will never cause a death blow to the chest cavity....go to med school!

[DimMak]

[QUOTE=47MartialMan]

The last two will never cause a death blow to the chest cavity....go to med school!

Did you not read the previous post which documented a 44 year old teacher dying from an elbow to the chest while trying to break up a fight? Those who documented this death all went to med school...but that is not good enough for you, right?

Is it that you do not believe the elbow or palm to have the power of the steering wheel, baseball or hockey puck as in the examples being discussed? Or do you just like to disagree for the sake of argument?

[47MartialMan]

Look man, I cannot accept something from using the analogy of common medical practices. You can believe what you want. I do not believe it to be so. I cannot accept such foolish beliefs for the sake of folklore. Some CMA thrive on this to make their arts more intriquing.

There is no concrete evidence that someone can deliver such a blow to the chest cavity to cause such great damage. All of these "incidents" that you lay claim to or use for analogy, are flukes, or freak accidents.

It is you who is trying to argue your point.

If you want to continue to debate this, go here; (if you can handle it)

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23289&highlight=Dim+Mak

[eXcessiveForce]

I actually saw someone go down from a side kick to the chest twice, once in real life, once on the tv show cops. Both times lead to CPR. the one on cops was a domestic dispute. The other was in a tournament.

If I remember correctly the strike must hit during the T-wave of the heart beat and can be fatal.

[47MartialMan]

I actually saw someone go down from a side kick to the chest twice, once in real life, once on the tv show cops. Both times lead to CPR. the one on cops was a domestic dispute. The other was in a tournament.

If I remember correctly the strike must hit during the T-wave of the heart beat and can be fatal.

It wasnt from cardiopulmonary, the "wind" was knock out of them

[DimMak]

[QUOTE=47MartialMan]

There is no concrete evidence that someone can deliver such a blow to the chest cavity to cause such great damage. All of these "incidents" that you lay claim to or use for anaology, are flukes, or freak accidents.

YOU ONCE ASKED FOR ANIMAL TESTING TO BE DONE AS PROOF...HERE IT IS

Tufts' scientists Mark Link and Paul Wang tried an experiment with pigs. Young pigs were given blows to the chest with a soft ball fired at 30 mph. Of the 10 blows delivered, 9 caused a young pig to experience what would have been a fatal heart stop. Animal rights groups made sure the pigs were quickly revived.

9 OUT OF 10 PIGS WOULD HAVE HAD A FATAL HEART ATTACK AT 30 MPH (SOUND FAMILIAR? JUST CHECK A FEW POSTS BACK...). NOW THAT HAS BEEN PROVEN TO YOU ALSO. 9 OUT OF 10 DEATH HITS IS NO "FREAK ACCIDENT OR FLUKE" AS YOU CONTINUE TO CLAIM.

It is you who is trying to argue your point.

NO ACTUALLY IT IS YOU WHO STEPPED INTO THE DISCUSSION AND ARGUED AGAINST MY POINTS. I JUST PROVED YOU WRONG ABOUT AN ELBOW TO THE CHEST CAUSING DEATH IN A DOCUMENTED MODERN MEDICAL CASE, YET YOU STILL REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR WRONG OR INCORRECT STATEMENT, JUST AS YOU HAVE DONE IN THE PAST. YOU JUST RUN AWAY FROM YOUR PREVIOUS POSTS THAT I HAVE PROVEN WRONG AS IF THEY WERE NOT WRITTEN

If you want to continue to debate this, go here; (if you can handle it)
[url]http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23289&highlight=Dim+Mak

WHAT YOU OFFER IS JUST A PUBLIC FORUM WITH NO DOCUMENTATION AND NO EVIDENCE...THIS PUBLIC FORUM POSTER DOES NOT EVEN OFFER THIS CHINESE MD'S NAME THAT THEY ARE SPEAKING OF. HOW CREDIBLE IS THAT? THIS POSTER IS ALSO IN LOUISIANA, MUCH LIKE YOURSELF...HOW IRONIC

AS I HAVE STATED BEFORE, YOU ARE JUST DISAGREEING FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT. YOU HAVE OFFERED NOTHING DOCUMENTED AS I HAVE. YOU OFFER PUBLIC FORUM GOSSIP AND A MAGICIAN CHALLENGE AS YOUR PROOF OF DIM MAK NOT EXHISTING. AS I HAVE PROVEN WITH DOCUMENTATION YOUR MODERN MEDICAL THEORY AND ANIMAL TESTING THEORIES TO BOTH BE WRONG.

PLEASE POST AGAIN WHEN YOU HAVE SOMETHING DOCUMENTED OR SOMETHING TO STATE ON THE SUBJECT THAT STIMULATES THE MIND.

[47MartialMan]

Geez, what a convincing post (yawn)

Tufts' scientists Mark Link and Paul Wang tried an experiment with pigs. Young pigs were given blows to the chest with a soft ball fired at 30 mph. Of the 10 blows delivered, 9 caused a young pig to experience what would have been a fatal heart stop. Animal rights groups made sure the pigs were quickly revived.

Get real, shooting balls the same as a hand strike. Another unsupported analogy

NO ACTUALLY IT IS YOU WHO STEPPED INTO THE DISCUSSION AND ARGUED AGAINST MY POINTS. I JUST PROVED YOU WRONG ABOUT AN ELBOW TO THE CHEST CAUSING DEATH IN A DOCUMENTED MODERN MEDICAL CASE, YET YOU STILL REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR WRONG OR INCORRECT STATEMENT, JUST AS YOU HAVE DONE IN THE PAST. YOU JUST RUN AWAY FROM YOUR PREVIOUS POSTS THAT I HAVE PROVEN WRONG AS IF THEY WERE NOT WRITTEN
You have not proven me wrong in anything. You beleive what you want and fish for support. The same as I

If you want to continue to debate this, go here; (if you can handle it)
[url]http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23289&highlight=Dim+Mak

WHAT YOU OFFER IS JUST A PUBLIC FORUM WITH NO DOCUMENTATION AND NO EVIDENCE...THIS PUBLIC FORUM POSTER DOES NOT EVEN OFFER THIS CHINESE MD'S NAME THAT THEY ARE SPEAKING OF. HOW CREDIBLE IS THAT? THIS POSTER IS ALSO IN LOUISIANA, MUCH LIKE YOURSELF...HOW IRONIC
Wow, when will you stop trying to convince me of your foolish belief? Furthermore, that was only one thread about this foolishness. There are many more on that site. Go ahead and join-start a thread on it-if you can handle it

AS I HAVE STATED BEFORE, YOU ARE JUST DISAGREEING FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT. YOU HAVE OFFERED NOTHING DOCUMENTED AS I HAVE. YOU OFFER PUBLIC FORUM GOSSIP AND A MAGICIAN CHALLENGE AS YOUR PROOF OF DIM MAK NOT EXHISTING. AS I HAVE PROVEN WITH DOCUMENTATION YOUR MODERN MEDICAL THEORY AND ANIMAL TESTING THEORIES TO BOTH BE WRONG.
NOT SO. You still have only circumstantial and analogical evidence.

PLEASE POST AGAIN WHEN YOU HAVE SOMETHING DOCUMENTED OR SOMETHING TO STATE ON THE SUBJECT THAT STIMULATES THE MIND.
Stimulates what kind of mind? You have your beliefs, I have mine.

[DimMak]

Originally Posted by DimMak

Tufts' scientists Mark Link and Paul Wang tried an experiment with pigs. Young pigs were given blows to the chest with a soft ball fired at 30 mph. Of the 10 blows delivered, 9 caused a young pig to experience what would have been a fatal heart stop. Animal rights groups made sure the pigs were quickly revived.


[QUOTE=47MartialMan]Get real, shooting pauls the same as a hand strike. Another unsupported analogy[QUOTE]

So what you are saying is that one cannot hand strike with with the same force of these softballs, correct?



Originally Posted By DimMak

THE CORRELATION IS IN THE IMPACT TO THE CHEST AREA 47MartialMan, NOT BETWEEN COMMON ACCIDENTS AND DIM MAK. THE IMPACT TO THE CHEST AREA COULD HAVE BEEN DONE BY A STEERING WHEEL, BASEBALL, HOCKEY PUCK, ELBOW OR HAND. THE FIRST THREE EXAMPLES WOULD ALL BE COMMON ACCIDENTS, THE LAST TWO EXAMPLES COULD ALSO, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE EXAMPLES OF A DIM MAK STRIKE.


[QUOTE=47MartialMan]The last two will never cause a death blow to the chest cavity....go to med school![QUOTE]

Originally Posted By DimMak


Known in Cantonese as dim mak and in Japanese as kyusho jitsu, the touch of death is said to be something like acupuncture's evil twin. The idea is that chi, or energy, flows through the body along lines called meridians. A blow or squeeze applied to certain pressure points on these lines will supposedly put the whammy on the victim's chi, leading to incapacitation or death. Though none of the techniques of dim mak seems likely to work consistently as advertised, medical journals describe many incidents in which a seemingly mild trauma results in disproportionately serious injury, and the sites of some such traumas correlate with dim mak pressure points. Cases like these include:

Commotio cordis, also known as cardiac concussion. This is a syndrome in which a nonpenetrating impact to the chest causes heart failure but little or no structural damage. The classic victim is a kid or young adult who takes a baseball, hockey puck, or other hard object in the chest, but a 44-year-old teacher died when she caught an elbow while breaking up a fight at school. About half the time the victim collapses immediately, and in the balance of cases within a minute or two. Death is thought to result from ventricular fibrillation, a state in which the lower heart chambers start fluttering and stop pumping blood. One study of 128 cases found that 84 percent of the victims died, and nearly all the survivors received prompt defibrillation. Relatively little force is required for the killing blow--one researcher estimates that the blunt instrument need be moving at only 30 mph.



Hmmm, you stated the last two (elbow or hand) "will never cause a death blow to the chest". It is okay to admit being wrong 47MartialMan, it often cleanses ones soul.

Where I come from if it looks like a duck...and sounds like a duck...then it is a duck