Kungfu fighting animals that are pussies

[sherwinc]

Well ive been training wing tsun 5 1/2 years and ive watched other styles like boxing, kick boxing, muay thai, karate, jujitsu, judo etc and people forget these are mostly sports competiton orientated martial arts wing tsun/chun is self defence so yeah anything goes fingers in the eyes etc also WT aims at being able to avoid going to the floor and finishg a fight quickly and efficiently standing up.

i read this.....

Cross my personal boundary when i dont want you too and ill break your knee caps!

NOte:
this is a very effective technique, for me, it is a life saver, cause a low kick is a non-telegraphic and invisible to the opponents eye when those forearms of yours do their individual movement......
(individual movements between hands and feet attacks/defense is what i mean)

[LittleDemon]

Well ive been training wing tsun 5 1/2 years and ive watched other styles like boxing, kick boxing, muay thai, karate, jujitsu, judo etc and people forget these are mostly sports competiton orientated martial arts wing tsun/chun is self defence so yeah anything goes fingers in the eyes etc also WT aims at being able to avoid going to the floor and finishg a fight quickly and efficiently standing up.

[Mark-Masters]

Well............?

Supposedly Tang Lang (The Founder Of Praying Mantis ) Went To Shaolin And Got His Ass Whooped By The Current Abbot, After Losing, He Sat Under The Tree And Saw The Mantis Fighting The Cicrcida (Or However You Spell It), He Then Captured The Mantis And Took It Home And Studied It's Movements By Poking Chopsticks At It.

A Few Flaws...

1. This Animal Has The Brain Size Of Approximatley Two Cubic Millimetres.
2. A Chopstick Is Always A Straight Attack, If Your Poking Him, What Happens If Someone Throws A Hook?
3. There's Probaly More But I'm In A Rush...

Well, Supposedly Tang Lang Went Back To Shaolin And Beat The Abbot, This Man Is Supposedly The Greatest Master Of Kung Fu, To Be An Abbot, And The Students Wanted Him To Teach Them, But Escaped In The Night.

I'm A Student Of Wing Chun, And Only Just Learning Basics, But I Did Western Boxing For A Few Years Before Hand, Until I Met My Sifu, I Wanted To Test The Style, And In About 3 Seconds, I Had 3 Consecutive Punches In My Face And Arms Trapped, Oh Well..... Enough About Me, Hopefully This Has Been Insightful.

Mark-Masters.

[yentao]

Very informative historical events. That was the time were great martial fighters come to make their names. And in a full scale battle like those it will make little difference as to how good your martial skills are. In the end the superior number of forces with good military tactics will prevail. And many great heros died in those kind of battles, heroes like the great General Kwan the famouse weilder of " KWAN DAO". But in single combat great martial artist are much superior than ordinary soldiers or fighters.

General Kwan Yu lived in the late Han Dynasty, and became famous in the 3 kingdoms era, wei, wu, and chu.

[yentao]

u forgot about the brits and some imperialist european staes as well

Oh yeah. I'm only thinking about iraq ,my bad. About the great wall I think Konghan was talking about the general fell in love with the concubine? I think this happened not during mongolian invasion but in the manchurian invasion.

[darrianation]

Ramming you forearms into an incoming punch (as described by sherwinc), again for the same reasons as listed above.



You dont understand the technique so please dont use it as a case in point.
My instructor says that you can theorize about fighting all night but it will not help you fight. Lots of practice is the only sure way. The wing chun school in this town the students are encouraged to go out and test what they know and find out what works for them. Either by fine motor skill or gross misscalculation a landed hit is a landed hit. As for if you get hit by a boxer or someone with no formal training it still really hurts!

"My instructor says that you can theorize about fighting all night but it will not help you fight."

That’s the only thing you got right. I have fought a few wing chun guys all who had been doing martial arts longer than me. Not one of them was able to do what you said. NONE! I fought one in a in a no rule match and yea he had damn quick hands but he could not stop my leg kicks or my clinches and knees. His forearm block shit did not work! The WC guys try to punch fast and furious without causing much damage and I put my rights cross right through their punches. Same for all the other WC guys and a few other KF guys in more friendly matches (horseplay).

I am not saying it can't work, what I am saying that it doesn’t work often enough. And a 6'4'' bubba who you can hit with a 2x4 and he just laughs at ya’ isn't going to care about you smashing his forearms he'll still crush you.

So don't go talking theory to me, I have the experience the observation, and the research!

[krys]

What I donot get is that the Persians could have used archers & catapult to destroyed the Spartan formation?

Such formations later on would become useless becuase attackers later learn to attack low for the legs or use hooks to bring down the shield.

And the gladiators their training is also concentrated a lot on brute strength, but I guess that`s becuase of their body structures. In the east its mostly speed. Technique wise ancient European warriros have limited techniques compare to the east.

I don't know about catapults, maybe the area was not suited for their use... what I understand is that at the end the persians killed the greeks got them by raining on them arrows as they didn't dare anymore to fight in close quarters....

Greek and Roman culture was as advanced as Chinese culture at their time...
I don't think the gladiator's training was only based on strength.... these men had nothing to do the whole but prepare for fighting.. it is straightforward that they will developp skills...
And there was a selection process, the best fighters would survive...
Strength is not enough to survive in a weapon encounter, see Arnis.... you need proper technique. And the best way to acquire proper technique is through fighting.
Fighter with better techniques lived the other died....there was a selection process.
Some of those skiled gladiators who survived started schools of their own after retirement and passed their knowledge to new generations.
In China same thing former army officers would often retire into monasteries and develop martial arts based on the experience in the battlefield.
The thing is that asian peoples were smart enough to preserve their martial heritage and the western arts were mostly lost.

[guy incognito]

Ramming you forearms into an incoming punch (as described by sherwinc), again for the same reasons as listed above.



You dont understand the technique so please dont use it as a case in point.
My instructor says that you can theorize about fighting all night but it will not help you fight. Lots of practice is the only sure way. The wing chun school in this town the students are encouraged to go out and test what they know and find out what works for them. Either by fine motor skill or gross misscalculation a landed hit is a landed hit. As for if you get hit by a boxer or someone with no formal training it still really hurts!

[konghan]

At the Battle of Thermopylae the spartians were able with only 300 men to defend a montain pass against a persian army of more than one million men.... Sure they had a good position (defending a pass) but they also got to possess great martial skills.... This kind of feat was never recorded in the East,,,,

Before the shaolin temple there were already fighting schools in Europe and the middle East, on some egyptian sculpture fighters blocking fist strikes (like in kung fu!) and practicing locks are represented.... in the Benni Hasan tomb (Egypt, 2800 B.C.) there are paintings of fighters practicing over 420 grappling and other ma moves...
The romans had gladiator schools were professional fighters trained daily to fight to the death against other men or animals (lions, bears, crocodiles.....). The west didn't need the east to learn martial arts.... What happened is that eastern cultures kept their martial arts and that those were lost in the west...

Have also a look at this (Albrecht Durer Fechtbuch 1500) for pressure points:
http://http://www.martialartsplanet....tid=1531&stc=1

The Spartans had a good military strategy & are considered the best fighters at that time. The military strategy that the Spartans used that was eventually adopted by the Romans was the Phalanx formation. It consist of a close quater formations of foot soldeirs armed with large shields in one hand & a spear or short sword on the other. And behind or inside that phalanx formations are archers or spear throwers.

The formation must be strong enough to with stand charging attackers & the archers & spear throwers must have strong arms & good accuracy to hit their targets.

Spartans are known for their rigorouse military training, which we can say is also good martial art different from the east. The Persians we can say were weak "martial art fighters" with poor military strategy, becuase they relay on quantity not quality.

The small pass that the Spartans were defending was big enough only to hold so many hundred troops therefore forcing the persians to charge on a human wall of shielded men in single file while spartan archers were flying down on them.

What I donot get is that the Persians could have used archers & catapult to destroyed the Spartan formation?

Such formations later on would become useless becuase attackers later learn to attack low for the legs or use hooks to bring down the shield.

And the gladiators their training is also concentrated a lot on brute strength, but I guess that`s becuase of their body structures. In the east its mostly speed. Technique wise ancient European warriros have limited techniques compare to the east.

So far, the most recorded fact of history of martial fighting are from the east which definitely have identified their growth through observing animal fighting forms & adopting it to human form.

And it is this form of fighting that will lead to the growth of other modern MMA of the present time.

So far boxing & greeco wrestling are forms that are human base. The rest are heavily influence by ancient arts that have its roots on animal forms.

[konghan]

There was a whole Mongol army in Indonesia that came to chastise a Javanese king who defied Khubilai Khan.... when they arrived this king was already killed during a rebellion a, one of the son of the first king allied hismself with the mongolians and they defeated together the usurper.... after that this son decided he didn't need the mongols anymore and fell on them with his troops... it was a clear land battle and the mongols had to flee....


Eastern Europe wasn't completely conquered by sheer luck.... The western armor couldn't stop mongol arrows.... and were not prepared to mongol tactics. They got utterly defeated.
What saved the west is that Khubilai died and the mongol princes and warlords had to return because of succession quarrels....




History books do not agree with this malaria story.....

The third Mongol invasion, of 300,000 men and a vast fleet, was also defeated by the Vietnamese under the leadership of General Tran Hung Dao. Borrowing a tactic used by Ngo Quyen in 938 to defeat an invading Chinese fleet, the Vietnamese drove iron-tipped stakes into the bed of the Bach Dang River (located in northern Vietnam in present-day Ha Bac, Hai Hung, and Quang Ninh provinces), and then, with a small Vietnamese flotilla, lured the Mongol fleet into the river just as the tide was starting to ebb. Trapped or impaled by the iron-tipped stakes, the entire Mongol fleet of 400 craft was sunk, captured, or burned by Vietnamese fire arrows. The Mongol army retreated to China, harassed enroute by Tran Hung Dao's troops.





The first to repell the mongols (before the Javanese) were the Palsestinians! And it was definitely on land and there wasn't malaria around.

1260: Kublai is appointed Khan and declares Buddhism the state religion
1260: Mongols are defeated for the first time in Palestine (by Muslims, in the battle of Ain Jalut)
1263: Hulegu assumes the title of "Ilkhan" as ruler of Persia
1265: Hulegu dies
1267: Kublai Khan moves the Mongol capital to Dadu (Beijing) and founds the Yuan dynasty
1274: Kublai Khan fails to invade Japan
1277: the Mongols invade Burma
1282: the new Shaybanid khan Uzbek converts the Shaybanid horde to Islam and his horde becomes known as the Uzbeks
1284: the Uighur empire is absorbed into the Chagatai Khanate
1293: Kublai Khan fails to invade Java
1294: Kublai Khan dies and the empire fragments in khanates: Sarai in the west (descendants of Batu, the "golden horde"), Beijing in the east (the Yuan), Sultaniyeh in Persia (the Ilkhan Sultanate, descendants of Hulegu) and the Chaghatai Khanate in the center
1295: Ghazan, the Ilkhan, converts to Islam
1304: Oljeitu, the Ilkhan, proclaims himself a shiite
1304: Mongols under Ali Beg invade India but are repelled by the Delhi sultanate
1316: Oljeitu, the Ilkhan, builds a new capital, Sultaniyeh, and his own domed mausoleum
1327: Chagatay khan Tarmashirin converts to Islam
[/B]1328: the Mongols invade India but are repelled by the Delhi sultanate[B]

h

In India it was also a land battle...

Very informative historical events. That was the time were great martial fighters come to make their names. And in a full scale battle like those it will make little difference as to how good your martial skills are. In the end the superior number of forces with good military tactics will prevail. And many great heros died in those kind of battles, heroes like the great General Kwan the famouse weilder of " KWAN DAO". But in single combat great martial artist are much superior than ordinary soldiers or fighters.

[darrianation]

Boxers are good in a control ring tournament or in a pre agreed fair fight between two individuals. A lot of times the referee had to step in to break up the fighters becuase they get entangle up or if they fall to the ground.

I have no doubt that that test was accurate, in fact I myself may have a poor rating against a boxer in that kind of test. But in a fight it will be a different story.

And With due respects to boxers: I have spar with boxers both amature boxers & professional boxers who are ranked in the top 15 of IBF (International Boxing Federation Pacific region) light weight division ( this was during my prime years in the 70`s). And their skill is very limited and easy to off set with kicks, throws, & sweep & a little martial punching. Off course if I were to fight in boxing rules they`ll probably easily knock me down.

In fact one boxer got his arm kicked swollen that it immobilized him in a san shou tournament. The boxer couldn`t throw a punch becuase he was out of range, the san shou guy just stood there & keep throwing left & right kicks without even using any takedowns.

But again if we are to look at the roots of todays MMA they can be trace back to the animals style kung fu. Boxers definetly have no animals roots thats` why their techniques are limited that`s when martial art comes in to improve or add more techniques.

The only combat thing that humans are capable of developing without any animal forms or help are weapons, from stones, sling shot, bow & arrow, long bow, cross bow, muskets, rifles, machine guns, grenades, tanks, missiles, nuclear weapons & weapons of mass destruction. All these are human natural combat instinct, THE USE & DEVELOPMENT OF WEAPONS.

I was using boxing as an example of gross motor techniques that were modified and improved from natural/intrinsic human movement. I agree that boxing isn’t complete I have always contended that two guys with equal size, athletic ability, and experience one being a boxer and the other a Muay Thai fighter get into the ring to fight. I give the fight to the Muay Thai fighter if he is allowed to use all his arsenal, kicks, clinch knees, and elbows. But I have also contended all along that for self-defense you need striking- kicks, punches knees, elbows, head buts, biting, and etc. Grappling- throws/takedowns and counter throws/takedowns, clinching skills as well as ground fighting with control and finishing techniques, and etc. Weapons- Guns, knives, sticks, and improvised weapons as well as non-lethal weapons like OC spray, stun guns, and etc. Note on weapons not all weapons are applicable in certain countries due to legality, so train with what is most commonly used and legal.

A long the lines of boxing and intrinsic techniques, are also high VS. Low percentage techniques. The more the gross muscle movement the easier the movement is to make under stress and the higher the percentage it is to be accurate and effective. A low percentage technique basically is those that take the most concentration of fine motor skill. The finer the motor skill the harder it is to perform under stress as well as to deliver accurately and effectively.

Some basic examples of low percentage techniques would be standing eye jabs without being in close proximity to the target, or anchored to the target. Meaning the percentage goes up if the BG has a hold of you and you can simply put your thumbs in his eyes and drive him back like in a front bear hug when your hands are free. Or like when you are on top of your opponent in a mounted position, our on the bottom in a guard position.

Throat strikes are again a lower percentage shot do to the timing and targeting it takes. A natural position of human even non-trained fighters is to drop the chin in a fight limiting the surface area of the target. Throat strikes are easy to do in the dojo under controlled circumstances, but not so easy in a chaotic mess with adrenaline pumping in a street fight. However not to say they shouldn’t be learned because they can be handy under certain situations especially while grappling.

Gunting Deflecting the incoming fist and punching the bicep to demobilize the arm. This is very difficult to do especially when faced with feints and unpredictable circumstances while the rush of fear is pulsing through your body.

Ramming you forearms into an incoming punch (as described by sherwinc), again for the same reasons as listed above.

High percentage techniques are jabs, crosses, hammer fists, palm strikes, leg kicks, push kicks, knees, elbows, parries and etc because they rely less on timing, less on laser targeting and can be done regardless of what your opponent is doing at the time. They can be first strikes, sucker punches, or anytime. These all use basic intrinsic human actions and reactions that rely on larger muscle groups to perform (gross motor) so they are stronger and more effective at least at a higher percentage of the time.

This is a simplistic overview but most will get the idea.

[krys]

the fall of the great wall

there was this general who fell in love w a concubine,he opened up the gates for the mongols to enter in return the mongols would give hime the concubine.the flaw is not w the engineering of the greatwall,its with the people manning them...specificaly this general that i was talking about...the wall was so succesful that it repelled all barnbarians out and to the west where they sacked rome and created the dark ages...attila was one of the frustrated warlords that drove west.

What really happened: Genghis Khan had a general called Tsabar, who was his emissary to the Jin capital and who knew about a little used path to bypass the Juyong Pass. Using this path at night, the Mongol horsemen in a single file broke through and surprised the Juyong Pass defenders from the rear.

Chingis Khan became emperor of “all who lived in felt tents,” but his dreams was to conquer the world. First, he led his men in a series of campaigns against the Xi Xia Empire in western China. In 1209, the Xi Xia capital was threatened, but the Mongols were satisfied with tribute after their camp was unexpectedly flooded. It must be noted that the Mongols were more inChingis Khan became emperor of “all who lived in felt tents,” but his dreams was to conquer the world. First, he led his men in a series of campaigns against the Xi Xia Empire in western China. In 1209, the Xi Xia capital was threatened, but the Mongols were satisfied with tribute after their camp was unexpectedly flooded. It must be noted that the Mongols were more interested in and tribute plunder rather than to capture cities. However, as the Empires in China discontinued to pay tribute once the Mongols withdraw, the raids soon turned into conquest.terested in and tribute plunder rather than to capture cities. However, as the Empires in China discontinued to pay tribute once the Mongols withdraw, the raids soon turned into conquest.

In 1211, Chingis Khan took 65,000 men and marched against the Jin Empire of Northern China. At this time, the Great wall was not operational, and the Jin had built other fortifications. With the help of the Ongguts, a people who lived on the Jin’s northern border, Chingis Khan easily passed through the defenses and marched into Jin territory. He continued a trail of plunder until he met a large force of around 150,000 men, which he defeated. Chingis split his army and launched a multiple pronged attack on the Jin. He and his generals dealt several blows against the Jin, including capturing the strategic Juyong pass. Unfortunately, Chingis was wounded during a siege and withdrew to Mongolia. Subsequently, Jin forces began to recapture territories loss to the Mongols.

The Empire at 1218

In 1213, the Mongols returned after learning that the Jin had refortified their locations. Chingis divided his army into three parts, one under command by himself and the other two, under his sons. The three Mongol armies devastated the Jin Empire, and by 1214, most of the area north of the Huang He (Yellow river) was in Mongol hands. One exception was the city of Chungdu, capital of the Jin Empire. Like other nomadic armies, Chingis Khan’s Mongol hordes were entirely cavalry, and the weakness of cavalry forces was the lack of ability to capture fortifications. Chingis realized this weakness and was quick to capture Chinese siege engineers to learn siege tactics. Despite so, Chungdu withstood the Mongols’ assaults. Chingis’s men became short on supplies and were ravaged by plague, but he tenaciously continued the siege. Accounts describe that every tenth man was sacrificed to be fed to the others. The siege went so long that Chingis abandoned the campaign and put his general Mukali in charge. The Mongols finally entered the city in 1215, but by then, the Jin capital had already been moved south to Kai-feng.



Konghan said:

The early romans, greeks & europeans warriors have only limited human fighting skills that are base mainly on the use of brute strength also on other attributes as what darrianation have pointed out.

At the Battle of Thermopylae the spartians were able with only 300 men to defend a montain pass against a persian army of more than one million men.... Sure they had a good position (defending a pass) but they also got to possess great martial skills.... This kind of feat was never recorded in the East,,,,

Before the shaolin temple there were already fighting schools in Europe and the middle East, on some egyptian sculpture fighters blocking fist strikes (like in kung fu!) and practicing locks are represented.... in the Benni Hasan tomb (Egypt, 2800 B.C.) there are paintings of fighters practicing over 420 grappling and other ma moves...
The romans had gladiator schools were professional fighters trained daily to fight to the death against other men or animals (lions, bears, crocodiles.....). The west didn't need the east to learn martial arts.... What happened is that eastern cultures kept their martial arts and that those were lost in the west...

Have also a look at this (Albrecht Durer Fechtbuch 1500) for pressure points:
http://http://www.martialartsplanet....tid=1531&stc=1

[krys]

5. Cavalry archers is a great advantage of the mongolians so they will fought more in range rather than in foot considering the China is a plain in terrain and archers are good advantage... They only saw a weak point in the Greatwall that is why they were able to conquer through. Cavalry is not an advantage to use in indonesia because of the terrain, land forms as archepeligo and the landscape is full of forest. It was never been easy to mobilize from water and charge through the shore by horse.

Indonesians are good seafarers and sailors they know how to fight in sea, at coasts, and forest battles, mongolians are not good at sea and live in mountains that is why they failed to conquer japan because they are not good sailors they can't manage easily to pass through high waves and tides. They also failed to conquer the entire eastern Europe consdering the more they go west the more their archery less effective because their opponent are having stronger and stronger armor as they mobilized. So technology is really essential.

There was a whole Mongol army in Indonesia that came to chastise a Javanese king who defied Khubilai Khan.... when they arrived this king was already killed during a rebellion a, one of the son of the first king allied hismself with the mongolians and they defeated together the usurper.... after that this son decided he didn't need the mongols anymore and fell on them with his troops... it was a clear land battle and the mongols had to flee....


Eastern Europe wasn't completely conquered by sheer luck.... The western armor couldn't stop mongol arrows.... and were not prepared to mongol tactics. They got utterly defeated.
What saved the west is that Khubilai died and the mongol princes and warlords had to return because of succession quarrels....

the mongols were defeated in vietnam and SE asia not by the locals..but by malaria...its history and their tactics are just inadequate....they are used to foghting cavalry style.

History books do not agree with this malaria story.....

The third Mongol invasion, of 300,000 men and a vast fleet, was also defeated by the Vietnamese under the leadership of General Tran Hung Dao. Borrowing a tactic used by Ngo Quyen in 938 to defeat an invading Chinese fleet, the Vietnamese drove iron-tipped stakes into the bed of the Bach Dang River (located in northern Vietnam in present-day Ha Bac, Hai Hung, and Quang Ninh provinces), and then, with a small Vietnamese flotilla, lured the Mongol fleet into the river just as the tide was starting to ebb. Trapped or impaled by the iron-tipped stakes, the entire Mongol fleet of 400 craft was sunk, captured, or burned by Vietnamese fire arrows. The Mongol army retreated to China, harassed enroute by Tran Hung Dao's troops.





The first to repell the mongols (before the Javanese) were the Palsestinians! And it was definitely on land and there wasn't malaria around.

1260: Kublai is appointed Khan and declares Buddhism the state religion
1260: Mongols are defeated for the first time in Palestine (by Muslims, in the battle of Ain Jalut)
1263: Hulegu assumes the title of "Ilkhan" as ruler of Persia
1265: Hulegu dies
1267: Kublai Khan moves the Mongol capital to Dadu (Beijing) and founds the Yuan dynasty
1274: Kublai Khan fails to invade Japan
1277: the Mongols invade Burma
1282: the new Shaybanid khan Uzbek converts the Shaybanid horde to Islam and his horde becomes known as the Uzbeks
1284: the Uighur empire is absorbed into the Chagatai Khanate
1293: Kublai Khan fails to invade Java
1294: Kublai Khan dies and the empire fragments in khanates: Sarai in the west (descendants of Batu, the "golden horde"), Beijing in the east (the Yuan), Sultaniyeh in Persia (the Ilkhan Sultanate, descendants of Hulegu) and the Chaghatai Khanate in the center
1295: Ghazan, the Ilkhan, converts to Islam
1304: Oljeitu, the Ilkhan, proclaims himself a shiite
1304: Mongols under Ali Beg invade India but are repelled by the Delhi sultanate
1316: Oljeitu, the Ilkhan, builds a new capital, Sultaniyeh, and his own domed mausoleum
1327: Chagatay khan Tarmashirin converts to Islam
[/B]1328: the Mongols invade India but are repelled by the Delhi sultanate[B]

h

In India it was also a land battle...

[krys]

5. Cavalry archers is a great advantage of the mongolians so they will fought more in range rather than in foot considering the China is a plain in terrain and archers are good advantage... They only saw a weak point in the Greatwall that is why they were able to conquer through. Cavalry is not an advantage to use in indonesia because of the terrain, land forms as archepeligo and the landscape is full of forest. It was never been easy to mobilize from water and charge through the shore by horse.

Indonesians are good seafarers and sailors they know how to fight in sea, at coasts, and forest battles, mongolians are not good at sea and live in mountains that is why they failed to conquer japan because they are not good sailors they can't manage easily to pass through high waves and tides. They also failed to conquer the entire eastern Europe consdering the more they go west the more their archery less effective because their opponent are having stronger and stronger armor as they mobilized. So technology is really essential.

There was a whole Mongol army in Indonesia that came to chastise a Javanese king who defied Khubilai Khan.... when they arrived this king was already killed during a rebellion a, one of the son of the first king allied hismself with the mongolians and they defeated together the usurper.... after that this son decided he didn't need the mongols anymore and fell on them with his troops... it was a clear land battle and the mongols had to flee....


Eastern Europe wasn't completely conquered by sheer luck.... The western armor couldn't stop mongol arrows.... and were not prepared to mongol tactics. They got utterly defeated.
What saved the west is that Khubilai died and the mongol princes and warlords had to return because of succession quarrels....

the mongols were defeated in vietnam and SE asia not by the locals..but by malaria...its history and their tactics are just inadequate....they are used to foghting cavalry style.

History books do not agree with this malaria story.....

The third Mongol invasion, of 300,000 men and a vast fleet, was also defeated by the Vietnamese under the leadership of General Tran Hung Dao. Borrowing a tactic used by Ngo Quyen in 938 to defeat an invading Chinese fleet, the Vietnamese drove iron-tipped stakes into the bed of the Bach Dang River (located in northern Vietnam in present-day Ha Bac, Hai Hung, and Quang Ninh provinces), and then, with a small Vietnamese flotilla, lured the Mongol fleet into the river just as the tide was starting to ebb. Trapped or impaled by the iron-tipped stakes, the entire Mongol fleet of 400 craft was sunk, captured, or burned by Vietnamese fire arrows. The Mongol army retreated to China, harassed enroute by Tran Hung Dao's troops.

the mongols were defeated in vietnam and SE asia not by the locals..but by malaria...its history and their tactics are just inadequate....they are used to foghting cavalry style.

The first to repell the mongols (before the Javanese) were the Palsestinians! And it was definitely on land and there wasn't malaria around.

1260: Kublai is appointed Khan and declares Buddhism the state religion
1260: Mongols are defeated for the first time in Palestine (by Muslims, in the battle of Ain Jalut)
1263: Hulegu assumes the title of "Ilkhan" as ruler of Persia
1265: Hulegu dies
1267: Kublai Khan moves the Mongol capital to Dadu (Beijing) and founds the Yuan dynasty
1274: Kublai Khan fails to invade Japan
1277: the Mongols invade Burma
1282: the new Shaybanid khan Uzbek converts the Shaybanid horde to Islam and his horde becomes known as the Uzbeks
1284: the Uighur empire is absorbed into the Chagatai Khanate
1293: Kublai Khan fails to invade Java
1294: Kublai Khan dies and the empire fragments in khanates: Sarai in the west (descendants of Batu, the "golden horde"), Beijing in the east (the Yuan), Sultaniyeh in Persia (the Ilkhan Sultanate, descendants of Hulegu) and the Chaghatai Khanate in the center
1295: Ghazan, the Ilkhan, converts to Islam
1304: Oljeitu, the Ilkhan, proclaims himself a shiite
1304: Mongols under Ali Beg invade India but are repelled by the Delhi sultanate
1316: Oljeitu, the Ilkhan, builds a new capital, Sultaniyeh, and his own domed mausoleum
1327: Chagatay khan Tarmashirin converts to Islam
[/B]1328: the Mongols invade India but are repelled by the Delhi sultanate[B]

h

In India it was also a land battle...

[Pitbullz]

Mongolian horde never been good in hot weathers and sea battles. They even had a hard time dealing with poisons from plants and snakes and diseases. The farther they are in their home the more they became weaker in number and preparation. The only country i knew who was able to conquer from a far is america with the help of aircraft.

u forgot about the brits and some imperialist european staes as well