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  • #61
    Originally posted by jubaji
    On what planet?
    I'm thinking the moon with1/6 of the earth's gravity; Mars too with 1/3. flying kicks would be deadly !

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    • #62
      Actually. read about the history of the martial arts... you study martial arts, right?
      They originated from animal forms. They may be far advanced from those days, but I am correct. They studied animal movement and developed fighting systems because humans can do things like think.
      And thanks for explaining the way humans fight. It sounds like you put a great deal of effort and thought into your fighting philosophy. Like a human.
      Your thinking about being natural is not wrong, because it is your opinion. But all of the martial arts come from tai chi (which has animal movements), then kung fu (which has animal systems), then the copies.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by yipmanfan
        But all of the martial arts come from tai chi (which has animal movements), then kung fu (which has animal systems), then the copies.
        I thought that kung-fu was developed from Da Mo (Buddha) who developed postures and positions to help Chinese Buddhist monks stay fit. Long hours of meditation made them weak and overweight, so Da Mo's excercises made them stronger.

        The system of excercises was tweaked to become a system of defense, but I don't know much about that story,

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        • #64
          The Greeks and Romans never developed their fighting systems off of animals, and those were some of the greatest fighting systems ever devised. The Filipinos didn't develop theirs off of animals either, and those are some of the most varied and effective martial arts on the planet. Only the Asian martial arts that have never proved too effective are based off of animal systems.

          A human has to fight like a human, not an animal. That is pretty much common sense even. Humans are animals, just the most intelligent ones currently. It's not like there are animals and then humans and we are really any different. The only difference is our knowledge and the fact that we created civilization. But on the physical level, we are animals as well.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Tom Yum
            I thought that kung-fu was developed from Da Mo (Buddha) who developed postures and positions to help Chinese Buddhist monks stay fit. Long hours of meditation made them weak and overweight, so Da Mo's excercises made them stronger.

            The system of excercises was tweaked to become a system of defense, but I don't know much about that story,
            Yes, and the postures taught to them became tai chi... which contains the animal movements...

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Tom Yum
              I thought that kung-fu was developed from Da Mo (Buddha) who developed postures and positions to help Chinese Buddhist monks stay fit. Long hours of meditation made them weak and overweight, so Da Mo's excercises made them stronger.

              The system of excercises was tweaked to become a system of defense, but I don't know much about that story,
              this is from lawofthefist.com
              "Kung Fu[Chinese (Mandarin) gngfu, skill, art* : gng, worker, work + f, man, laborer.]
              Kung Fu, also known as Gung Fu, are modules of codified practices or traditions of unarmed and armed combat. They are often taught today with the goal of developing both the mind and the body of the practitioner.
              "Kung Fu", translated* means mastery of a skill.* The Chinese term for martial arts is Wu Shu. Wu Shu's exact origin is arguable. Some historians say it surfaced in the Shang Dynasty (16th Century B.C.) other attribute it to the period of the Contending States (475-221 B.C.)
              As it was said
              In about 539 AD, a holy man named Bodidarama left his monastery in India to spread the Buddhist faith to China. After traveling hundreds of miles to reach Northern China and crossing the Himalayan mountains (Even today with our technology and equipment is an incredible feat) he headed North to Loyang, the capital of Henan Province.

              There of course he found the Shaolin (Temple) Bodidarama sought entrance to the temple but was not granted entrance (as many sought entrance for various reasons).
              Bodidarama was determined to enter and see the Shaolin Ssu. He located to a nearby cave on the side of a mountain, where (it is said) he sat in meditation facing a stonewall. He sat facing the wall for most of the next nine years at the end of which Bodidarama's deep blue piercing eyes had apparently drilled a gaping hole in the cliff wall.
              9 years stairing at a wall will grant you access to the temple
              Upon gaining entrance to Shaolin. Ta Mo (as he was now called by the Chinese) saw that the monks were weak and could not perform the rigorous meditations he expected that Buddhist Monks should be practicing. Whilst meditating they often fell asleep or were very restless and were not achieving inner calm or peace (which is required to reach Enlitenment, that for which all Buddhist strive!).
              He spent some time in seclusion pondering the problem. Considering the time and health awareness at the time Ta Mo came to a staggeringly accurate conclusion, that the monks were not fit to meditate. With this in mind he started working on a solution; he created three principles of exercises.
              These in-place exercises were later transcribed by monks as;


              a.****** The Muscle Change Classic


              b.****** The Marrow Washing.


              c.**** The Eighteen Hand Movements.


              **So Many Styles
              Many styles of Kung Fu revolve around the ideas of nature. The ancient masters often developed their techniques by observing the world around them. Animals and insects provided the foundation for many systems of Kung Fu. Other factors were philosophy and religion.
              Kung Fu itself has fragmented incredibly, with as many as 1500 styles practiced. Some emphasize circular hand techniques and a flowing, rhythmic fighting style others have long sweeping motions and emphasise power and strength.*
              By the 13th Century AD Kung Fu had developed and expanded throughout Asia. In Japan it became Karate, and in Korea, Taekwando. All current styles of the martial arts are an off shoot of the original Shaolin Kung Fu.

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              • #67
                then doesn't it also make sense that we fight like animals? And Filipinos are asians. And when haven't the asian martial arts been proven? Anyone in the mma tournaments would disagree.

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                • #68
                  Animal ideology expands on what boxers of the past couldn't, increase of techniques and postures with both have it's advantages and disadvantages. It should be obvious why so many offsprings happened since fist boxing was not enough. Current CMA is reversed elvoving as weaponary and fake arts take precedence. CMA needs to regain it's honour, get rid of the boxer rebellion past and get rid of any wushu that is leeching into the systems. These posts are a product of boxer vs CMA conflict and should be stopped.
                  The animal system is old I agree but it cant evolve till someone masters it and evolves it.
                  boxers are martial artists because they have martial philosophy, I dont know who separated them in the first place.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Here are some interesting Kung Fu School Links

                    I studied for a short period of time Wing Chun & thought it was a very effective way of self defense.
                    Other Kung Fu Schools that seem interesting are:
                    Wu Shu Kwan
                    San Soo
                    Praying Mantis
                    Eagle Claw
                    Shaolin Long Fist
                    Jeet Kune Do

                    As for Animal Kung Fu Styles I think they are only for forms & Tai Chi type exercises I doubt if they would be truly effective in Street Combat or
                    Martial Arts Tournaments.

                    Iam adding a couple of Kung Fu Links which People may find interesting:

                    http://www.yingjowpai.net/

                    http://www.miragorobot.com/scripts/d...u%2FEagle_Claw

                    http://omniknow.com/common/wiki.php?...Praying_mantis

                    http://www.iaswww.com/ODP/Sports/Mar...Kung_Fu/Mantis

                    http://www.fortunecity.com/olympia/moses/1049/

                    http://www.wingchun.org/

                    http://www.miragorobot.com/scripts/d...United_Kingdom

                    http://www.mainewingchunkungfu.com/links.htm

                    http://www.hertsdirect.org/comdirect...kungfu4/879160

                    http://www.sunion.warwick.ac.uk/zsk/Origins.html

                    http://spiritdimension.com/martial-a...et-kune-do.htm

                    http://www.miragorobot.com/scripts/d...nd_Instruction


                    http://dmoz.org/Sports/Martial_Arts/...North_America/

                    http://www.hardcorejkd.com/what_is_hjkd.php

                    http://www.jkdfederation.com/



                    I hope people find ths info useful.
                    My own preference in styles are
                    Muay Thai Kickboxing
                    Gene Lebells Grappling
                    Ukidokan
                    Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
                    Sambo
                    Pancrase
                    Wing Chun
                    Aikido

                    I think if one masters as much of these 8 styles one can achive an amazing skill level in combat both for the street & in tournament.
                    However this is a lifetime study.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Broadsword2004

                      And what's with the monkey? How is a monkey a fighter, agaisnt other than maybe human that it bites or scratches, or another monkey, or an animal smaller and weaker than it??

                      A monkey has much speed, arm strength, leg strength, strong fingers and toes, excellent jumping ability and dexterity...all positive attributes in any fighter. A monkey is also very good at avoiding attacks, another positive attribute in fighters. While a monkey will not likely ever defeat an animal such as the lion, a monkey will often escape the attack of the lion. Which is an impressive feat in itself. One must live to fight another day, correct?

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                      • #71
                        Yeah, the watching animal concept has always come across to me as folklore. Throughout folklore, it was common to use animals in describing human traits. Like "heart as a lion", "fierce as a dragon", etc. Therefore, with a little imagination, such tactics can be used to demonstrate a animal liking. I often stump my students by showing them a move and asking them to guess the animal. Some are made up (with me telling the truth and having a discussion after). Some are actual animal movements per martial arts. Some are movements from say, the Tohng Lohng style, that have other animal names. Much of many CMA, just because it is a particular "animal style", does lend to the complete imitation of the animal.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by 47MartialMan
                          Yeah, the watching animal concept has always come across to me as folklore. Throughout folklore, it was common to use animals in describing human traits. Like "heart as a lion", "fierce as a dragon", etc. Therefore, with a little imagination, such tactics can be used to demonstrate a animal liking. I often stump my students by showing them a move and asking them to guess the animal. Some are made up (with me telling the truth and having a discussion after). Some are actual animal movements per martial arts. Some are movements from say, the Tohng Lohng style, that have other animal names. Much of many CMA, just because it is a particular "animal style", does lend to the complete imitation of the animal.
                          In terms of modern MA, what do the animal styles emphasize?

                          I've heard that tiger style is a hard punching, ripping and low kicking style with a strong emphasis on offense and coming straight in. The dragon style

                          I've heard uses more footwork and angles to set up attacks and as defense and contains a mix of strikes and kicks.

                          The snake style, I've heard has elements of grappling; or staying close to your opponent for sensitivity and uses trapping and finger strikes.

                          Do tell. It would be good to hear.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Ok, but in terms of modern MA, animals should be confused with human abilites. Per the ability to "think" and mentally focus, would never be done by animals.
                            Originally posted by Tom Yum
                            In terms of modern MA, what do the animal styles emphasize?

                            I've heard that tiger style is a hard punching, ripping and low kicking style with a strong emphasis on offense and coming straight in.
                            So this couldnt be in the "Bear Style", "Ape Stlye", "Mantis Style", etc.?

                            The dragon style I've heard uses more footwork and angles to set up attacks and as defense and contains a mix of strikes and kicks.
                            So this couldnt be in the "Crane Style", "Mantis Style", "Monkey Style", etc.?

                            The snake style, I've heard has elements of grappling; or staying close to your opponent for sensitivity and uses trapping and finger strikes.
                            So this couldnt be in the "Mantis Style", "Eagle Style", "Crane Style", etc.?

                            In Chat Sing Tohng Long there is a movement called Baahk Yuhn Cheut Duhng (Bahk Yuen Tchut Dhong or Baag Yune Tsuud Dung) -"White Ape Exits" or -"White Ape Exits-the Cave". But yet this movement, describing a ape, is nothing imitatating the martial art that practices it. Therefore, it is deceiving and less understood that such a move has to imitate such an animal, to be a particular martial art.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Oraenor
                              Animal ideology expands on what boxers of the past couldn't, increase of techniques and postures with both have it's advantages and disadvantages. It should be obvious why so many offsprings happened since fist boxing was not enough. Current CMA is reversed elvoving as weaponary and fake arts take precedence. CMA needs to regain it's honour, get rid of the boxer rebellion past and get rid of any wushu that is leeching into the systems. These posts are a product of boxer vs CMA conflict and should be stopped.
                              The animal system is old I agree but it cant evolve till someone masters it and evolves it.
                              boxers are martial artists because they have martial philosophy, I dont know who separated them in the first place.
                              Oraenor, you orifice boy! Damn I thought all you Australians just pony up the extra vaseline for your mamas every time some rapist comes crashing through the door of your home, mate! Honestly, I prefer a firearm, but you can't have them in Australia, can you now? Oh well, that's usually the start of a totalitarian government. Chinese martial arts is okay, but it's really no good for fighting. I prefer fast and furious with whatever you could get your hands on for close-quarters combat. But the firearm is still superior.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                ...

                                Animal Styles/Forms Was not meant to make humans fight like animals. That would be utter rubbish, and true it would be some degraded form of biting and scratching each other's bums.

                                CMA's incorporate animals due to certain stengths that animal posseses. For exmaple the way a Mantis dances and evades attacks while suddenly exploding strikes outwards. CMAs take whats good from each animal not everything, they don't go attaching another 4 limbs to make the perfect Mantis.
                                Also, calling something by an animal is much faster and efficient than describing it over and over again. Something like Leopard fist jab is easier to remember than say, "pull your fingers in half way, do not keep them but leave them half out strike"

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