stance

[djcaldwell]

Off hand I don't have any links to refer but I'll look into it and when I find some I'll post it for you.

[HtTKar]

BJJ calls it a dojo?

Go to tournaments, you can see all the styles you want.

Most people start off in what is called "Fighting stance". It is just a forward facing stance you feel confortable in that allows you to move quickly and keep your guard up. Fighting is nonstop, it is not static. All the stances you learn in a style are used for moving from or through one position to another while positioning yourself to be able to block and strike. Basically, you have to do something with your feet no matter what, whatever you're doing with your feet is a stance. You could start off a match with your hands in your pockets if you wanted, but how intimidating would that be?

[npk9]

i want to see more Chinese martial art in action. so badly i do, all i ever see is Shao Lin guys beating on bricks or doing backflips off thier heads. there are plenty of demonstrations but i never see chinese striking arts put to the test, even if its just against another KF guy.

i see so much kickboxing and boxing and i always wonder what chinese arts look like out of demonstration.

come to think of it, i want to see karate of any kind put to action in the same sence, i never see it out of demonstrations!

CAN YOU POINT ME IN THE DIRECTION OF SOME FOOTAGE?!

also, right now I'm doing BJJ, but i'm pretty new. Not that im really inexpereinced, me and my boys have been submission grappling for a while now, but im new to the "dojo" environment, though i like it, it has knowledgable people. I plan to work a little MT in the same establishment, i figure since they offer it i should partake, even though i am SICK of the following equation:

MMA = BJJ + MT

I am assuming that you are new to this then (I'm a little slow) - There are plenty of CMA that fight fullcontact. You have San Shou which is fullcontact w/out knees or elbows like they do in MT but you have takedowns where are nice. United States Kuoshu Federation holds an annual tournment which fighters fight on a Lei Tei platform - full contact again but in this federation you are allowed to knee but no in the clinch. Take downs are allowed and pushing out of the platform is allowed as well. you can google "San Shou" or "Lei Tei" and find a lot of info on it. Even on this forum you'll find a lot of info.

[npk9]

You are right about that it is a popular misconception which normally once a person passes a certain level in training they realize that "Hey staying in a stance like this will be the death of me."

Unfortunately, without the proper instruction and/or understanding that belief goes unchecked which also leads to that famous other misconception that Traditional Chinese Martial Artists can't fight because they are too busy working stances.

As for the full contact - you're in PA and I'm in NY I always love a sparring match especially with people from other styles because it allows us to learn more about ourselves, build defense and help each other out to better our skills. If you're ever in NY I would have no problem hooking up.

Hey thanks! That would be great - like wise if you ever are in the Philadelphia area - PM me

[danfaggella]

i do know of san shou (my fav. K-1 fighter is BIG into that stuff), but even when he fights it comes off as kickboxing to me, besides the takedowns.

i want to see some of this stuff in action, i want to aknowledge the fact that more than bjj/mt exist in the world of effective MMA.

[npk9]

i do know of san shou (my fav. K-1 fighter is BIG into that stuff), but even when he fights it comes off as kickboxing to me, besides the takedowns.

i want to see some of this stuff in action, i want to aknowledge the fact that more than bjj/mt exist in the world of effective MMA.

Hmmm.. . then you are looking for something unique - outside sports fighting. If it comes off as kickboxing then - that means that you need a stronger understanding of the basics in order see the differences in fighters and styles. Remember - its very hard to grab w/boxing gloves on. So a lot of the kung-fu applications are lost. I guess then the my question to you would be . . . what are creditentials in CMA? how long have you studied? what style? what school?

I hope that I'm not coming off like a prick or any of the sort - I'd just like to help.

[danfaggella]

im not some 70 year old master of 12 striking styles, i'm a kid who watches fights and reads books and goes to whatever free MA class he can get to, i do think i can tell the difference between plenty of styles, better than the average joe at least. i know plenty of different styles but i never really see video of anything outside of kickboxing in K-1, UFC, Pride. I dont really see those snappy quick kicks as seen in many karate styles, or any chops which are techniques of many chinese styles. i dont see much variation in stance and i dont too much variation in takedowns from the basic ugly "bulling in" and some greco stuff (every once in a while i will see a NICE leg sweep or perfectly timed single leg, which i do appreciate). i like to beleive that there is validity in at least PARTS or chinese martial arts, or even karate but i never see them in mma and thats what bugs me

[npk9]

im not some 70 year old master of 12 striking styles, i'm a kid who watches fights and reads books and goes to whatever free MA class he can get to, i do think i can tell the difference between plenty of styles, better than the average joe at least. i know plenty of different styles but i never really see video of anything outside of kickboxing in K-1, UFC, Pride. I dont really see those snappy quick kicks as seen in many karate styles, or any chops which are techniques of many chinese styles. i dont see much variation in stance and i dont too much variation in takedowns from the basic ugly "bulling in" and some greco stuff (every once in a while i will see a NICE leg sweep or perfectly timed single leg, which i do appreciate). i like to beleive that there is validity in at least PARTS or chinese martial arts, or even karate but i never see them in mma and thats what bugs me

There is validity to CMA - its just that when it comes to sports fighting - you can only punch, kick, maybe elbo, knee, & takedown. Chokes, jointlocks & armbars of course if its MMA & BJJ. You also have padding - boxing gloves and a REF. Sports fighting takes out A LOT of other techniques which is used not just in CMA but other styles as well (That can attribute to why BJJ is more effective then other arts when it comes to the transition between practice, sport, & street. There practice is not as restrictive as other styles, this of course is not to say that they don't have there down falls either). CMA has eye stricks - throat attacks - joint locks that cannot one practice w/o a lot of restraint. I mean heck CMA has even foot stomps - Imagine if that was allowed in San Shou - LOL - that would bring a whole new element to it. If you can find old Lei Tei clips you'll find what you are looking for because the older Lei Tei fights were just CMA's proving there ability - not many rules back then.

I don't know if that helps or not.

[djcaldwell]

danfaggella,

Unfortuntately, part of the problem here is that with all due respect you don't have any experience with regard to actual training and acquired skills. That doesn't invalidate your questions but it does make it harder for you to understand many of the differences and/or similarities. As npk9 has pointed out point sparring, tournament boxing with gloves and such do restict many of the available techiniques. But the fact of the matter is I belive you are looking for pretty and flashy moves to be demonstrated like you woudl see in a good KF Flick. Unfortunately, real life is not that pretty. I have been studying for 15 years now and I can tell you that in the ring and in real life - that doesn't happen. You use the tools that are most effective in the fight for real life joint locks and grappling are great at both diffusing a situation and durring conflict. But sweet stances and others again are a foundation and not the rule when fighting. So, although I would love for you to be able to understand the fact of the matter is you really can not until you have studied for a while.

But again don't let the statement disenheart you just if and when you have the opportunity to train go for it and remember that although some moves are cool looking and in theory even work - when you are actually fighting they are the last moves that you are really thinking about. Quick endings with you still standing are what you look for.

[danfaggella]

good posts, and i understand your points, i know i'm not some kind of conosour(SPELLING?) of martial art.

but i'm not necissarily looking for flashy upside-down monkey-style super tripple kick, just something that looks like CMA. Its easy enough to see the difference between a wing chun fighter and a boxer, you can see it when they fight. the thing is i dont really see that in fights (yeah i guess they are sport fights). i dont see anythign characteristically chinese, ever, and it disapoints me, i mean, they have been doing Wu Su and all that for thousands of years, they are the basis for so many arts and artists, i just wonder if i will ever see thier brand of technique in a ring.

also, where can i check out the old fights you are talking about?

[npk9]

good posts, and i understand your points, i know i'm not some kind of conosour(SPELLING?) of martial art.

but i'm not necissarily looking for flashy upside-down monkey-style super tripple kick, just something that looks like CMA. Its easy enough to see the difference between a wing chun fighter and a boxer, you can see it when they fight. the thing is i dont really see that in fights (yeah i guess they are sport fights). i dont see anythign characteristically chinese, ever, and it disapoints me, i mean, they have been doing Wu Su and all that for thousands of years, they are the basis for so many arts and artists, i just wonder if i will ever see thier brand of technique in a ring.

also, where can i check out the old fights you are talking about?

LOL - You're looking in the wrong . . . place? When you watch a fight - you don't look for a "brand of technique" you have to look for a brand of "theory" -you have understand why the fighter is doing what he is doing - why did punch when he did - what type of training makes a fighter punch that way? the timing - the theory behind how to punch & when to punch is just one example. Understanding the foundamentals lets you see that. You can compare it to people who love cars - everyone can tell difference between car, truck, motorcycle. Then there are people who take a step further and tell types of cars, then types of engines, then types of parts, etc - well you get the idea.

Also when you do fight - especially an opponent outside your style - you began to realize that you style whether it be CMA, MT, BBJ or anything - One style alone cannot help overcome "ALL" opponents. Thats when cross training comes in and A LOT of fighters do that. So even though you'll see a CMA fighter in the ring if you can recognize some of the techniques that are thrown in the fight - you'll begin to realize not all the techniques thrown are going CMA techniques from that individual.

These videos are really REALLY hard to find on the internet. I know there was one thread here that showed a really quick clip of it - just type Lei Tei in the search here and you'll find it.

[danfaggella]

i know what you mean.

but this thread all started from stance, and thats just the obvious (as obvious as the difference between car/truck) way to identify some minor trace of CMA. There are countless practical (IMO maybe...) stances in CMA that can be used in all types of situations, and I just don't see any of it, do you?

[npk9]

i know what you mean.

but this thread all started from stance, and thats just the obvious (as obvious as the difference between car/truck) way to identify some minor trace of CMA. There are countless practical (IMO maybe...) stances in CMA that can be used in all types of situations, and I just don't see any of it, do you?

Honestly - you won't. Nothing that distinguishes CMA vs any other style. Well there is Capoeria

[danfaggella]

are you serious?

have you ever thought a boxing stance looked like "golden rooster stands on one foot", or thought a MT stance looked like a "six-four"?

kung fu stances are always changing in matches, while in MMA i see one MT stance all the time, i would have detected CMA stances i'm not extreemly knowledgable but i know a thing or two.

[djcaldwell]

are you serious?

have you ever thought a boxing stance looked like "golden rooster stands on one foot", or thought a MT stance looked like a "six-four"?

kung fu stances are always changing in matches, while in MMA i see one MT stance all the time, i would have detected CMA stances i'm not extreemly knowledgable but i know a thing or two.

All due respect but again too much TV! KF stances change yes but it's not always as obvious as you are envisioning. We don't break out into crouching tiger in the middle of a fight. A lot of the stances would be used as transitional stances but not held. Again you're not going to fight from horse, cat, tiger, crane, kneeling or any of those stances. They are stances that you use in conjunction with or as transition with other applications.

For example - I MAY and again I say MAY because it depends on the situation but say I block punches using Pon (an open hand inside block) and then drop down into kneeling stance with Chaat Choi strike low. But once the strike is done I'm not going to stay in the stance, I'm going to return to my fighting stance.

So again understaning that stances are useful they are not the picture in your mind that you will see practical applications.