every move has a counter?

[BoarSpear]

A knife is useless if the fingers wrist elbow sholuder or clavical are damaged.

Actually, the knife shouldnt be your answer to the ground, its CERTAINLY an option though especially if you take the time to learn the ground game...


Tanto1 are you concerned someone can take you down and break your bones before you carve them up if that were your intent?

I do a fair bit of jjj myself but it always seems a poor choice to be empty handed when facing a blade...i wouldnt think the odds were in my favor for damn sure.

[gong fu]

dude you can certainly wrestle and grapple without injuring your opponent.
i have ALOT of ironpalm training, yet i still play rough with people, you just dont hit people hard enough to injure them...you can control the power you put into a strike. yes sometimes i accidentally stun someone when i catch them just right, no one dies ...a KO is a KO dude we dont get any special powers...no chi transfer is going to hurt an opponent, just heavy strikes...every actual martial artist has techniques he controls when sparring for safety sake. Dont limit yourself through fear of damaging an opponent, get in there and learn everything you can...i love it when we groundfight, think about having an opponent in your mount/guard and pummeling him with iron palm strikes to the head

i was saying you cant go testing if a groin crush works, or an eye gouge, or cant test punching someones throat, you cannot train using deadly moves, the only time they are ever used is in self defence,



peace.

[gong fu]

Funny stuff. It doesn't matter that each time you try to reach something with your arm you give up that arm and then the next and then if you still want to fight with two broken arms I can also break the legs, ankles or smaller bones in your foot...

A knife is useless if the fingers wrist elbow sholuder or clavical are damaged.

But I prefer to choke a stupid fighter to sleep myself.

you cannot say you will and can do all of those things in a fight, its too unpredictable, something so simple can stop a decent fighter right in his tracks,

you could be fighting with somebody on the street for any reason, he appears to be unnarmed you get into range and then a blade comes out and your already in close quaters, you might not even know you got cut untill after he already sticks you 2-3 times, then your all leaking trying to grapple,
i personally dont leave home without a weapon, i would much rather if i had to fight someone with a weapon, be armed myself, you stand a much better chance armed than unnarmed if you opponent has a blade, a nice telescopic baton will even do, aslong as you have the reach advantage theres a good chance you can bust him up without his blade getting you, but theres always exceptions,



peace.

[Hardball]

I learned the counter to the standing arm bar and the hammer lock on Wednesday night. Even though I am a shodan, it was new for me. The Sensei who taught it to me was a 6th Dan.

[Tant01]

Hmmm.... interesting....

Seems like a guy would learn a technique along with it's counter and then the counter to the counter???

Did your defense involve groin grabbing or attacking other vital targets?

[Hardball]

No, not that one. I'm sure there must be dozens of counters. The hammer lock counter was a duck under to a choke hold and the arm bar counter was awesome. I cant even explain it in words.

[Tant01]

Sounds (reads) FUN!!

No, not that one. I'm sure there must be dozens of counters. The hammer lock counter was a duck under to a choke hold and the arm bar counter was awesome. I cant even explain it in words.

Dynamic movement and rapid execution of a counter can be minimized if you throw your opponent to the ground and THEN apply the technique... Imobilization of the two nearest joints is crutial to securing most locks.


I miss the randori....

[Shard]

The knife on ground idea is full of shit.
The only way a knife works properly on the gound if is the person has a good amount of skill in using the knife. Plus, there are a lot of ground techniques that can nullify the knife hand.
The problem here being, if the person was a skilled knife user, than the person doing stand up is in just as much trouble as the person on the ground.
Sure you can move a lot more standing up. But so can the person wielding the knife. And please, a in/outward cresent probably won't disarm the knife.

If the knife user doesn't know hwo to use the knife, then it'll be easy to kick him away or grapple the knife away from him.

[Shard]

Back to the topic. I believe that every grapple, every strike has one counter or another.
But, i believe that by the time you know what move is being applied, you've just past the point of no return to counter. So i voted no. And alot of easily countered stuff is mostly a setup for something else, in essence, making the actual move un-counterable.

[Tant01]

Monkey trapped?

The knife on ground idea is full of shit.
The only way a knife works properly on the gound if is the person has a good amount of skill in using the knife. Plus, there are a lot of ground techniques that can nullify the knife hand.
The problem here being, if the person was a skilled knife user, than the person doing stand up is in just as much trouble as the person on the ground.
Sure you can move a lot more standing up. But so can the person wielding the knife. And please, a in/outward cresent probably won't disarm the knife.

If the knife user doesn't know hwo to use the knife, then it'll be easy to kick him away or grapple the knife away from him.

What are you talking about? Seriously? Maybe you're full of it!

A knife works PERIOD, it's just as sharp and deadly if I'm on my back or you are...

.... Are you saying I can't deploy after I'm on the deck? Or that you can disarm it easier because of the limited mobility? Phui!!!


The only thing I said about a knife not working is when the apendage has been structurally deanimated by force. The Clavicle supports the arm. The wrist, elbow or shoulder joint blown makes it most difficult to cut anything with that hand... Don't count on any desperate knifer to be monkey trapped with or without training. (That's a dog brothers term for not thinking clearly enough to switch hands with a knife...)

[Shard]

Nonono. You got me wrong, mr tanto.
I was trying to adress the fact that people always come up with the end-all technique of knife on the ground.

Like they would have a better chance standing up agaisnt a skilled knife opponent. I saying a skilled knife means ScreweD. Standing or Ground.
The only time standing actually has any chance agaisnt a knife is if the knife is out and in full view.

Yes you can easily use a knife after you've "hit the deck" and the grappler will be in a lot of shit. But a person using a knife(in a standing fight) can also keep it hidden till the time is right. Then when the standup fighter least expect it, Stabbed in the gut. It works both ways.

I get totally pissed when people always give standup the advantage. Its always the same excuse or rather same poor scenerio. On the ground, the knife is hidden till the right moment, but standing up, the knife is in full view and the knife user is an idiot who can't swing for nuts. Who says you can't hide the knife till the right time in a stand up?

[Tant01]

I see... and agree! I have been cut and poked and had a friend killed by a knife so it's not a fun thing to make any mistake dealing w/ steel...

[kuk sool won]

Im actually with gong on this one, there is always ways of getting out of techniques, biting, pulling hair, scratching, eye gouge, kicks, slams, low blows, the possiblities are endless.

I think constantly carrying a knife about with you if pointless, you might aswell not leave the house without body army or smoke grenades...

If everyone carried a knife then wouldn't the thugs start to carry guns instead? The idea of assulting with a knife is so that they have an advantage over their opponent.

Incase anybody hasn't noticed im fully against knifes.

[blitz]

What if everyone carried guns :O ?

[Tant01]

Another rock...

Im actually with gong on this one, there is always ways of getting out of techniques, biting, pulling hair, scratching, eye gouge, kicks, slams, low blows, the possiblities are endless.

I think constantly carrying a knife about with you if pointless, you might aswell not leave the house without body army or smoke grenades...

If everyone carried a knife then wouldn't the thugs start to carry guns instead? The idea of assulting with a knife is so that they have an advantage over their opponent.

Incase anybody hasn't noticed im fully against knifes.

You don't grapple much do you? Ever play any Jujutsu? Chi-Na? No...

You are woefully unprepared for someone like me... I wish you all the best in your safe little world...