Research Question-Cat Stance???

[Sagacious Lu]

If you through a thai kick at someone's leg in the low cat stance (like your pic) it would trip them up pretty bad and then you could pick off head shots as they fumble to catch their balance.

Should a cat stance be that low?

The stance should be that low, but you wouldn't be using it if someone might be about to throw a roundhouse kick. I certainly wouldn't use cat stance in a fight; why would I want to put all my weight on one leg? Cat stance is a valuable training tool but that's all it is; in a fight I'm about as likely to start practicing cat stance as I am to drop and start doing push ups Since this is the CMA forum I'd like to point out that in kung fu we practice roundhouse kicks which are identical to the "thai kick". You can call it the "thai kick" if you like but it isn't anything special or unique, it's just an ordinary roundhouse kick and eveyone else practices it too. It is a damn good kick though, it's one of my favorite techniques.

Doesn't kung fu have a back drop kick that they do from that position?

Hmmm... probably so but I'm not really familiar with it. In our style we tend to keep our kicks simple.

[robertlee]

If you look at any stance it is only for a moment. As combat is ever changeing so is stance and movement. A strong foundation stance and anything after is the moment then back to a primary postion. Cat stance in traditional use. evades at a angle from the attack and defence motion Or direct retreat and counter. If you look at stance as atemporary body position for the set moment of a defnce counter or offence motion. Then it is mearly movement but not fixed motion. Most all styles have a cat stance some where in there structure. And when looked at high or low stances found in different styles. Some were set on the ground structure the style came from. Hill regions of combat stances were lower to give more balance. flat regions higher for more mobilty.

[Tant01]

Bad joke

... I think the cat stance may differ between styles/systems.
This link shows a 45 deg. cat stance used in American Kenpo (I usually have my back leg a little straighter then shown in the picture)
45 degree Cat Stance

Question to everyone:
Does your cat stance look like this??

Looks like Floating Foot... (Bhakti Negara Silat)

The cat postures (Harimau) are down on all four, crawling as if stalking your prey, rolling on your back and springing to attack.. Like a cat. Wide foot spacing for steep or wet terrain. Etc.


Oh well, not funny enough if it's so out there no one get's it!


Cat stance Hahaha? They have four legs? Nevermind....

[Tant01]

Kung-fu to karatedo, off topic... or not

http://www.shindoryu.org/neko.htm

Neko Ashi Dachi (Cat Foot Stance)

In order to move forward rapidly, we push forward with the use of the energy from the rear leg, so naturally Neko Ashi Dachi is ideally suited for use to project forward with use of the rear leg...

Many of the older Karate ryu incorporate Neko ashi Dachi for the performance of Shuto Uke (Knife Edge Block) as it is a securely balanced tachikata (stance - standing form) from which to execute Shuto Uke...

The weight distribution for Neko Ashi Dachi in Shindo-Ryu Karate is 70% on the rear leg and 30% on the front leg. It should be noted that different ryu (styles) have different weight distributions, and if you do not practise Shindo-Ryu Karate, it is best to consult your Sensei for accurate information on your own ryu.


Many beginners find Neko Ashi Dachi one of the most difficult stances to adapt to - but - if you start in Musubi Dachi (Tie/Bind Stance), or by placing your heels together and turn the toes outward at a 60 degree angle, then bend the knees - you need only place one foot - two and a half lengths of your foot size in front (dead straight) to accomplish correct stance...


These methods and principles are sadly lacking in many of the modern systems of Karate, yet are vital in the understanding of body balance and weight-shifting. The old masters who designed much of what we would call "The Old Systems" all included Neko Ashi Dachi as they could see its importance and flexibility of use.

[Tom Yum]

Since this is the CMA forum I'd like to point out that in kung fu we practice roundhouse kicks which are identical to the "thai kick". You can call it the "thai kick" if you like but it isn't anything special or unique, it's just an ordinary roundhouse kick and eveyone else practices it too. It is a damn good kick though, it's one of my favorite techniques.

Thai kicks vs. Roundhouse kicks

HUGE difference! Thai kicks uses the kickers entire weight thrown behind the kick, the leg is kept stiff or slightly bent and most of the power comes from hip rotation - the same kind of rotation you would use swinging a baseball bat.

Roundhouse kick relies on snap for impact. Its faster than the thai kick and has better accuracy but doesn't have nearly the same power.

I knew someone who was both a jr and middlweight champion in WTF TKD. His roundhouse kicks could break jaws and knock guys down when kicked in the head, but they'd usually get back up allbeit slightly uncomfortable. His KO kicks were usually spinning hook kicks and spinning back kicks.

Another fellow who was a pro-kickboxer and similar weight would knock guys out cold with thai kicks to the head.

Big difference.

[Sagacious Lu]

Thai kicks vs. Roundhouse kicks

HUGE difference! Thai kicks uses the kickers entire weight thrown behind the kick, the leg is kept stiff or slightly bent and most of the power comes from hip rotation - the same kind of rotation you would use swinging a baseball bat.

No difference at all, this is exactly what I was taught to do.

[Tom Yum]

No difference at all, this is exactly what I was taught to do.

Looks like styles are borrowing the thai kick. I'll also add that the impact is with the shins vs. the bridge of the foot.

[Sagacious Lu]

Looks like styles are borrowing the thai kick. I'll also add that the impact is with the shins vs. the bridge of the foot.

Yes, we use the shin to strike. I guess I don't know when our style incorporated the kick but we can trace our lineage directly to the Shaolin temple at Fukien, which was burned somewhere around 1800. It's a great kick, but there's nothing unique about it regardless of what some would have you believe. I don't mean any disrespect Tom, Muay Thai produces some outstanding fighters and they use this particular kick brilliantly. That doesn't change the fact that other styles have been using the same technique for a very long time.

[Tom Yum]

I don't mean any disrespect Tom, Muay Thai produces some outstanding fighters and they use this particular kick brilliantly. That doesn't change the fact that other styles have been using the same technique for a very long time.

Hmmmm. I honestly know nothing about shaolin so I'll take your word for it.

Its just that so many styles these days are throwing shin kicks in the same fashion as taught in muay thai. I've seen and cross trained in a few other arts and I've never seen a thai style kick.

The closest thing I've seen is a round kick thrown with the ball of the foot, but the power is still mostly snap generated vs. rotative hip explosion.

Nice discussion anyhow.

[HtTKar]

If you look at any stance it is only for a moment. As combat is ever changeing so is stance and movement. A strong foundation stance and anything after is the moment then back to a primary postion. Cat stance in traditional use. evades at a angle from the attack and defence motion Or direct retreat and counter. If you look at stance as atemporary body position for the set moment of a defnce counter or offence motion. Then it is mearly movement but not fixed motion. Most all styles have a cat stance some where in there structure. And when looked at high or low stances found in different styles. Some were set on the ground structure the style came from. Hill regions of combat stances were lower to give more balance. flat regions higher for more mobilty.

exactly.
cat stance is 90% 10%, its transition and off to a 45 degree angle. Both of the pictures I saw in this thread were lower than what I picture a cat-stance to be. The only reason to go that low I would think would be for demonstration purposes. It allows you to be in a postion to defend yourself while being able to attack with both hands and a foot.--without having to pick your foot off the ground like a crane stance.

[SergeTk]

The Cat Stance (45 deg., 90 deg., rev.) in American Kenpo, is a transitional stance which we move through quite often. There are many reasons to use the Cat Stance, but I challenge you to find a better stance when fighting up against a wall.

Cat stance when you gainst the wall are you kidding????
It limits your ability simply cause it means all your weight on one foot, its a transition stance not a fighting stance.

Better stance?? Well how about Sum Chen stance!
Its same as cat but weight distribution is 60% back foot 40% front and it just happen to protect your groin from rising kick if done correctly.

[Kenpodog]

The Cat Stance (45 deg., 90 deg., rev.) in American Kenpo, is a transitional stance which we move through quite often. There are many reasons to use the Cat Stance, but I challenge you to find a better stance when fighting up against a wall.

Cat stance when you gainst the wall are you kidding????
It limits your ability simply cause it means all your weight on one foot, its a transition stance not a fighting stance.

As you can see from my previous post, The Cat Stance is a Transitional Stance which we move through quite often.
As for the up against a wall situation, No I am not kidding, the front leg is ready to kick as well as providing groin protection. The arms are free to block/strike and the combination of your back leg and the wall offer stability.
The weight distribution is 90% rear leg - 10% front leg.

Better stance?? Well how about Sum Chen stance!
Its same as cat but weight distribution is 60% back foot 40% front and it just happen to protect your groin from rising kick if done correctly.

One question, with 40% weight distribution on the front foot, wouldn't your balance be lost if someone sweeps the front leg??
Wouldn't it take much longer to throw a front kick (for example) because you would have to shift you weight back to the rear leg to kick and maintain balance??
I assume you are squared up facing forward, is you back vertically straight or are you starting to lean forward??

Do you have a better stance up against a wall or forced into a corner??

[Tom Yum]

Yes, we use the shin to strike. I guess I don't know when our style incorporated the kick but we can trace our lineage directly to the Shaolin temple at Fukien, which was burned somewhere around 1800. It's a great kick, but there's nothing unique about it regardless of what some would have you believe. I don't mean any disrespect Tom, Muay Thai produces some outstanding fighters and they use this particular kick brilliantly. That doesn't change the fact that other styles have been using the same technique for a very long time.

Hey man, in your last post you say....

http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/showthread.php?p=186298#post186298

[Sagacious Lu]

Hey man, in your last post you say....

http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/s...298#post186298

Yes, but before I said that I said this:

...my impression was that a roundhouse kick is a roundhouse kick regardless of what style you're practicing. If I've got that wrong than someone please explain how the technique is different.

TKD person disagreed that it was different so I asked how it was different. I was about 98% positive that he was mistaken and that it was the same kick but I wanted to see what the people on this board had to say about it because in all honesty I don't know that much about Muay Thai or TKD. That's why I started asking questions- that thread convinced me that it was in fact the same kick I know and love. I was also hoping (fool that I was ) that by posting my questions the way I did TKDPerson might start taking a more rational view of the different MA.

[Tom Yum]

I was also hoping that by posting my questions the way I did TKDPerson might start taking a more rational view of the different MA.

Uh huh. I see.............