Doubts about Tai Chi as martial art

[polecat63]

I think you've confused your internal arts. Xing Yi is the art taught to the Chinese Army, or so the legend goes. I've read different viewpoints as to who was taught Xing Yi, the officers, the troops, both or neither. I suppose it depends on who you talk to, but Xing Yi is the style.

[aku aku]

Xing yi, ba gua and tai ji are all internal arts, no?

Those and Liu Ho Pa Fa are the four internal arts. At least that's what I've been led to believe.

[BoarSpear]

Those and Liu Ho Pa Fa are the four internal arts. At least that's what I've been led to believe.

Piqua, Baji, Pa Pan Chang, Hao Chuan, Tong Be Quan...there are MANY internal arts.

[aku aku]

Piqua, Baji, Pa Pan Chang, Hao Chuan, Tong Be Quan...there are MANY internal arts.

Maybe you can help clear this up for me.

I heard that, although there are many soft arts, the term "internal art" refers to the four taoist arts?

I'll just copy and paste what was written in response to a question I had about something, maybe you can comment?

"When you are speaking specifically of the ‘internal martial arts’ by definition this means the four Taoist systems of hsing-I, bagua, tai chi, and liou he ba . There is some confusion, and sometimes the term internal is used by people to include all of ‘the soft arts’ such as aikido. I say this only for edification. The differentiation is largely a political/cultural matter, and often the terms internal/external are used interchangeably with hard/soft. In strictest term, ‘internal’ and ‘soft’ are not the same meaning. "

[BoarSpear]

Maybe you can help clear this up for me.

I heard that, although there are many soft arts, the term "internal art" refers to the four taoist arts?

I'll just copy and paste what was written in response to a question I had about something, maybe you can comment?

"When you are speaking specifically of the ‘internal martial arts’ by definition this means the four Taoist systems of hsing-I, bagua, tai chi, and liou he ba . There is some confusion, and sometimes the term internal is used by people to include all of ‘the soft arts’ such as aikido. I say this only for edification. The differentiation is largely a political/cultural matter, and often the terms internal/external are used interchangeably with hard/soft. In strictest term, ‘internal’ and ‘soft’ are not the same meaning. "

Most people will tend to have this problem understanding because the Translation is different than the intended idea the name had at one time.

NO ONE used the term to describe the arts before 1894, before this time people felt that Martial Artist were long on muscles, short on brains. However once Scholars got involved those who TALKED about the arts became more wealthy than those who could do them...perhaps because their alcohol induced discussion groups were more fun than actually doing the arts...

The first use of the Term was by a group of teachers who decided since their arts shared similar principles (but specialized in particular points) the students were free to cross train in these various styles. This Brotherhood consisted of Cheng Ting Hau's Baqua School, Liu de Guan's Taiji school and both Li Cun Yi's and Lui Wei Xiang's Hsin Yi schools. They called this Brotherhood Nei Jia Quan (Internal Family boxing.) This led to people grouping the three arts together as "internal" (thus implying they were the 3 internal styles.) Funny thing is... prior to this people were incorrectly calling them Wudang styles. The name Nei Jia Quan was later changed to Nei Gong Quan (Internal Skill boxing) when people realized Nei Jai Quan was already a style and a book had been written about it called Nei Jai Quan during the Ming dynasty. That book was written by Huang Bai Jai student of Wang Zhen Nan who learned the art from a Taoist Scholar... Zhang San Feng on Wudang mountain. That book being of Taoist origin is what led people to mislabel all the Arts as of Wudang or Taoist origin as well, so confusion has been around since the get go because When the 3 arts got called Nei Jai Quan, people thought it was related to the earlier text on Zhang San Feng's Taoist art... Confusion city..now add in the fact when in 1928 The central Martial Arts Academy in Nanjing called these styles Wudang to differentiate them from those of Shaolin origin the final nail was put in the coffin of clarity...get it yet? The only thing that makes an art internal is its principles and theories, not where it came from or what it's called.

[Sagacious Lu]

Most people will tend to have this problem understanding because the Translation is different than the intended idea the name had at one time.

NO ONE used the term to describe the arts before 1894, before this time people felt that Martial Artist were long on muscles, short on brains. However once Scholars got involved those who TALKED about the arts became more wealthy than those who could do them...perhaps because their alcohol induced discussion groups were more fun than actually doing the arts...

The first use of the Term was by a group of teachers who decided since their arts shared similar principles (but specialized in particular points) the students were free to cross train in these various styles. This Brotherhood consisted of Cheng Ting Hau's Baqua School, Liu de Guan's Taiji school and both Li Cun Yi's and Lui Wei Xiang's Hsin Yi schools. They called this Brotherhood Nei Jia Quan (Internal Family boxing.) This led to people grouping the three arts together as "internal" (thus implying they were the 3 internal styles.) Funny thing is... prior to this people were incorrectly calling them Wudang styles. The name Nei Jia Quan was later changed to Nei Gong Quan (Internal Skill boxing) when people realized Nei Jai Quan was already a style and a book had been written about it called Nei Jai Quan during the Ming dynasty. That book was written by Huang Bai Jai student of Wang Zhen Nan who learned the art from a Taoist Scholar... Zhang San Feng on Wudang mountain. That book being of Taoist origin is what led people to mislabel all the Arts as of Wudang or Taoist origin as well, so confusion has been around since the get go because When the 3 arts got called Nei Jai Quan, people thought it was related to the earlier text on Zhang San Feng's Taoist art... Confusion city..now add in the fact when in 1928 The central Martial Arts Academy in Nanjing called these styles Wudang to differentiate them from those of Shaolin origin the final nail was put in the coffin of clarity...get it yet? The only thing that makes an art internal is its principles and theories, not where it came from or what it's called.

This is the kind of post I've missed from you Boar, thanks for the explanation.

[BoarSpear]

This is the kind of post I've missed from you Boar, thanks for the explanation.

My pleasure, I have never minded or avoided actual discussion of the arts, but I refuse to be trolled by people who don't have an inkling what they're talking about. I left this place because I couldn't post without being trolled by people with less time in the the CMA's than they spent in diapers. One post in hundred got anything except trolled...I got more rep (it doubled) for Busting Brewers ass since I've been back than for ALL my previous posts combined ....MANY people pos repped me for taking the wind out of his sails...ZERO for this thread...that says it all...its not discussing arts that gets you rep here, its swapping insults...If you wanna know where I Do post pm me...

[jubaji]

I refuse to be trolled by people. I left this place because I couldn't post without being trolled.

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[knifethrower]

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Awwww is my little Bunny sad? Here's a carrot…

* bunny looks at carrot *

Now try not to confuse this as a phallic symbol of any kind but, if you do…don’t worry. It’s ok to be gay. just run along to one of those…eehem… “other sites” that you have booked marked. Do…whatever it is that you do there and then come back here for more fun.

Have A Nice Day

[Tom Yum]

Most people will tend to have this problem understanding because the Translation is different than the intended idea the name had at one time.

NO ONE used the term to describe the arts before 1894, before this time people felt that Martial Artist were long on muscles, short on brains. However once Scholars got involved those who TALKED about the arts became more wealthy than those who could do them...perhaps because their alcohol induced discussion groups were more fun than actually doing the arts...

The first use of the Term was by a group of teachers who decided since their arts shared similar principles (but specialized in particular points) the students were free to cross train in these various styles. This Brotherhood consisted of Cheng Ting Hau's Baqua School, Liu de Guan's Taiji school and both Li Cun Yi's and Lui Wei Xiang's Hsin Yi schools. They called this Brotherhood Nei Jia Quan (Internal Family boxing.) This led to people grouping the three arts together as "internal" (thus implying they were the 3 internal styles.) Funny thing is... prior to this people were incorrectly calling them Wudang styles. The name Nei Jia Quan was later changed to Nei Gong Quan (Internal Skill boxing) when people realized Nei Jai Quan was already a style and a book had been written about it called Nei Jai Quan during the Ming dynasty. That book was written by Huang Bai Jai student of Wang Zhen Nan who learned the art from a Taoist Scholar... Zhang San Feng on Wudang mountain. That book being of Taoist origin is what led people to mislabel all the Arts as of Wudang or Taoist origin as well, so confusion has been around since the get go because When the 3 arts got called Nei Jai Quan, people thought it was related to the earlier text on Zhang San Feng's Taoist art... Confusion city..now add in the fact when in 1928 The central Martial Arts Academy in Nanjing called these styles Wudang to differentiate them from those of Shaolin origin the final nail was put in the coffin of clarity...get it yet? The only thing that makes an art internal is its principles and theories, not where it came from or what it's called.

Great info, Boar.

You even nailed the pinyin. Ni shuo zhongwen ma?

[BoarSpear]

You even nailed the pinyin.

Shhh...don't tell Stabby!!!

Ni shuo zhongwen ma?

Shot who with what?

I've done tons of research and I'm careful with my notes...but their language is even more of a mystery to me than ours...

[jubaji]

It’s ok to be gay.

How nice that you are so accepting of yourself, but keep your lifestyle choices to yourself. No one wants to hear about it.

[knifethrower]

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[jubaji]

not even annoying, just boring...

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* sad little bunny hops toward horizon *








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Your little scheme is still not working. Come on man, you can do better than this!

[knifethrower]

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...............................

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