Shuai Jiao Video Clip

[DickHardman]

i think i would prefer bjj with all its attacks.

[jubaji]

I watched the "Championnat de France Shuai Jiao 2006" matches at i wasnt impressed. I dont know what the rules were exactly, but it looked like the goal was "take your opponent down any way you can" because i saw all types of takedown attempts, even a sloppy knee pick at one point. They also went for a lot of foot sweeps, like osoto garis. ]

Why would that disappoint you?

[Tom Yum]

Im not trying to bash Shuai Jiao in any way but i think alot of those throws in the video were shown just because they look pretty. Im sure those moves require alot of technique and expertise to perform, but its a lot easier doing those throws to someone who is letting you to get that kind of position on them that you need to so those types of throws in the video.

I watched the "Championnat de France Shuai Jiao 2006" matches at i wasnt impressed. I dont know what the rules were exactly, but it looked like the goal was "take your opponent down any way you can" because i saw all types of takedown attempts, even a sloppy knee pick at one point. They also went for a lot of foot sweeps, like osoto garis. Its just my opinion, but these guys looked very unskilled. Of coarse that was only sport Shuai Jiao, i just wouldve expected it to be much more skilled than from what i saw in those other vids.....

This is one of the vids i was talking about

Yeah, it looks like a demo video. Pulling off text-book throws like that is harder and uglier in competition.

Any experienced shuaijiao-ers out there?

My take on it is that there are fewer venues for SJ competition and less a chance to build athletic powress as other competitive grapplers.

Does it work?

From what I can see it does. Not just in pure SJ vids but also in San Shou bouts.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

All of Shuai Jiao techniques can be found in other grappling styles. The only SJ matches i found were those "Francais" ones. Everything else was Wushu and demo shit. And yes, i was dissapointed because those guys were terrible and they were supposedly the best guys in France doing SJ.

Does anyone know the rules for SJ competition?

[jubaji]

And yes, i was dissapointed because those guys were terrible and they were supposedly the best guys in France doing SJ.

Why were they terrible?

[jubaji]

Ah, I didn't watch the vid you linked to before. Ok, that did kind of look like bad judo...

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Why were they terrible?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T-l-KQZATY

In this match, both of the competitors were handfighting most of the time, nothing wrong with that, even though there was many opportunies for a double or single leg(i dont know if thats allowed, but the guy in the ponytail did at one point go for a single leg as they were going out of bounds. His head was down, bending over, he was in a ball and on both knees. Very noobish).
Both guys did nothing to improve their tie up position. It just a battle of strength. No armdrags or russian ties. And when they tried to toss eachother(like how those guys did in the demo video), they were so far apart from each other, and there was no level change at all. And the match only lasted for three minutes. There was a winner ofcoarse, but it was still 0-0 in my book.

[jubaji]

Well, the fella that won did exactly what he was supposed to - he won! I agree that it looked like poor judo and I also agree that we would need to know very specifically what rules they were under to accurately critique it.

However, I would imagine that even the best wouldn't look like 'demo' stuff if it were true competition.

[Tom Yum]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T-l-KQZATY
In this match, both of the competitors were handfighting most of the time, nothing wrong with that, even though there was many opportunies for a double or single leg(i dont know if thats allowed, but the guy in the ponytail did at one point go for a single leg as they were going out of bounds. His head was down, bending over, he was in a ball and on both knees. Very noobish).

Both guys did nothing to improve their tie up position. It just a battle of strength. No armdrags or russian ties. And when they tried to toss eachother(like how those guys did in the demo video), they were so far apart from each other, and there was no level change at all. And the match only lasted for three minutes. There was a winner ofcoarse, but it was still 0-0 in my book.

Good breakdown.

My guess is that the level of competition you see in these events will not be the same as world-class grapplers, as most of these competitors do so on a part-time basis, if that. I'm sure someone like Kurt Angle (during his hay days) probably trained 5+ hours a day, doing countless wrestling drills, making his techniques perfect.

These guys can grapple, but they do it as a hobby.

If you've ever competed in or been to the open style full-contact TMA tournaments, you will see some pretty good fights, great technique and guys occasionally getting hurt, but nothing near as skillfull or devastating as De Lahoya vs. Vargas or Silva vs. Rampage etc.

but hey, if you're going to stay in the TMA style...

shuaijiao > wt anti-grappling

[Mephariel]

Im not trying to bash Shuai Jiao in any way but i think alot of those throws in the video were shown just because they look pretty. Im sure those moves require alot of technique and expertise to perform, but its a lot easier to do those throws on someone who is letting you to get the kind of position on them that you need to execute those throws.

I watched the "Championnat de France Shuai Jiao 2006" matches at i wasnt impressed. I dont know what the rules were exactly, but it looked like the goal was "take your opponent down any way you can" because i saw all types of takedown attempts, even a sloppy knee pick at one point. They also went for a lot of foot sweeps, like osoto garis. Its just my opinion, but these guys looked very unskilled. Ofcoarse that was only sport Shuai Jiao, i just wouldve expected it to be much more skilled.....

This is one of the vids i was talking about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYqW67992Yw

I think it depends on what kinds of Shuai Jiao you are doing. One difference of emphasis in Shaui Jiao done for example in San Shou competition compared to Roman-Greco is speed. San Shou relies a lot more a speed than positioning. A lot of limb catching for example would be consider sloppy in Judo or wrestling competitions, but in fast wrestling, they are consider good because the opponent is down.

[jubaji]

A lot of limb catching for example would be consider sloppy in Judo or wrestling competitions, but in fast wrestling, they are consider good because the opponent is down.

Nothing would necessarily be considered sloppy if it were effective against a skilled opponent.

[Mephariel]

Nothing would necessarily be considered sloppy if it were effective against a skilled opponent.

That is true. Or at least, it should be true.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

i guess i was a bit more impressed by the video that the rest of you guys. just a bit. when two competitors are of roughly the same level the frequency of clean, pretty takedowns does drop quite a bit. the back and forth between you making a move, your opponent seeing the move, you adjusting etc. etc. happens very quickly, which lends itself to quick unbalancing moves instead of the nice big stuff, but when a guy goes down flat on his back there was some technique involved.

don't get me wrong, these guys were pretty average lookin. guess i just like playing devil's advocate.

[Tom Yum]

Yup, maybe I see these things through the lens of a bad back!!!

Too many girlfriends in the 80's, huh

[jubaji]

Too many girlfriends in the 80's, huh

Oh, it was mostly the 90s when that training really took off!