Video: Fajin Exercises of the Pre-Heaven Power Method

[phoenixeye]

Here is a video of Fajin exercises presented by the Chinese Taoist Martial Arts Association in Skokie, Illinois:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2Qvo_BUmNU

The objective of these exercises is to measure the Fajin ability of a practitioner, be it pushing or striking, after he/she complete a series of fundamental trainings based on the Pre-Heaven Power Method (or Shian Tien Jin Fa 先天勁法).

[DickHardman]

were is the power coming from? doesnt seem like its the hips. so what is he doing to throw the person. does he just have really strong pecs or what.

[jingshen]

the power comes from the students rigidity and acceptance to 'fly' backwards.

[cfreel]

I am a student at this school; perhaps I can offer a few points...

The power comes from pushing off the ground. The leg muscles are used for the power, and the rest of the body (including the chest muscles) is just structure to transmit the force out.

This is a set of cooperative partner exercises; in most, the person being thrown is just there to provide resistance. They are more or less dead weight, but obviously move differently than say a heavy bag would...

Thanks,
Chris

[jingshen]

Sorry but this video is very misleading, it's things like this that give Traditioanl arts a bad name and cause us to constantly defend ourselves against MMA or other fighting arts.

As an exercise it's pointless if the opponent is giving no resistance, Transversly if you were to offer resistance you would assist the practitioner in developing 'root' and Fajin and also you would learn and develop to accept and deal with incoming force. To simply stay rigid and 'fly' backwards then post a video of it on the net has no benefit to anyone othe rthan someones misguided ego

[cfreel]

Sorry but this video is very misleading, it's things like this that give Traditioanl arts a bad name and cause us to constantly defend ourselves against MMA or other fighting arts.

As an exercise it's pointless if the opponent is giving no resistance, Transversly if you were to offer resistance you would assist the practitioner in developing 'root' and Fajin and also you would learn and develop to accept and deal with incoming force. To simply stay rigid and 'fly' backwards then post a video of it on the net has no benefit to anyone othe rthan someones misguided ego

Well, I'd be interested in seeing a video of how you practice fajin. If there's resistence, it could actually be easier if you have a little technique, but then you'd be using their energy (at least in part), not your own. How would that test fajin?

I disagree you need resistence for something like this to have value. That's a separate exercise, and is dependent on the skill of both practitioners.

Chris

[jingshen]

surely if you are trying to demonstrate a striking technique ( or pushing) it should be done with someone who is intent on not moving?

whats the point of posting a video that blatantly shows students over exagerating the effects of each push / strike?

as a training exercise? well , i'm sure it trains the ego very well but as a benefit to applying the techinique please explain the objective / benefit?

Change the large mattress thingy for a large spike, lets see how far they 'fly' then.

I'm so tired of these self promotion videos.

As for posting a video of my own? why? what would that do for me?

if you want to test me then feel free, i operate an open challenge policy.

[cfreel]

surely if you are trying to demonstrate a striking technique ( or pushing) it should be done with someone who is intent on not moving?

No. It's a training exercise. You can achieve the same effect when one person is much more skilled than another (see the examples in the original video done from push hands, a short bow stance, etc). If the other person is actively resisting, then you're doing a different drill. You'd waste energy to directly oppose them, and the results could never be measured objectively, only in terms of how much they resisted, their skill level as well as yours, etc.

whats the point of posting a video that blatantly shows students over exagerating the effects of each push / strike?

The students are only cooperating in that they keep a stiff arm and stand there to take energy.

as a training exercise? well , i'm sure it trains the ego very well but as a benefit to applying the techinique please explain the objective / benefit?

Simple. Do any technique where you uproot someone. Now, do the same thing shown in the video. If they have no root because of your technique, they will be _easier_ to throw.

Change the large mattress thingy for a large spike, lets see how far they 'fly' then.

And fight with broken glass on the gloves!!

I'm so tired of these self promotion videos.

As for posting a video of my own? why? what would that do for me?

Show us an example that you like better? I hear criticisms, but don't see much for counter examples of other ways of doing fajin, or even the training of it. That was the point of the video. And I wasn't necessarily asking for you to post a video of yourself. You could pick someone from your school, your instructor, someone in the same lineage, a different school altogether, whatever. Something you feel demonstrates internal power.

if you want to test me then feel free, i operate an open challenge policy.

Which would only measure the relative skill of two people. Hopefully you're better than me; I haven't been training very long.

[jingshen]

There is no point in an exercise where the studnets ' stand with a stiff arm to take the power' It only enables you to post a video showing great fajin!

any style or systemt hat uses the concept of fajin would also understand how to absorb it since that is the first step to releasing it. To release it you must have compression since it works on the release of energy stored in connective tissue.To develop that release you must have resistance. the more the students are able to resist the more the deomnstrator can devleop his own release force.

As i said before i am extremely annoyed with all the 'magical' clips that find thier way onto these forums.

It is a hard enough arguement to convince people of the value of traditional arts without having to defend rubbish like this.

As for glass on the gloves? was that a cheap shot ?....the suggestion of a spike though not a serious suggestion infers an intention for the training partner to hold their ground and thereby develop their own root. the better they are the more the other partner will develop[ his release.

no resistance = no exercise, no test = no skill