BajiQuan

[kingoftheforest]

Do what you say say what you do.

Some of these comments may not be directed at anyone in particular so unbunch all your panties now.

The power from a boxing punch requires coordination and power from lower and upper body as well. The punch begins with a slight spring from the legs, whipping of the hips and snapping the punch through the target.

This argument has been going on for ages and I am not going to have it again. If you try what you have just mentioned with a boxing punch and stance as it is stated here without varying you will fall flat on your face. You have to adjust and it takes away from the power. If anyone wants to argue this again don't count on a response from me because I only argue in the realm of reality.

From my general observation of the Chinese arts, the power seems 'rooted' in lower stances than boxing, taking advantage of the ability to explode upward and outward to its target (using much more leg power) rather than straight in.

That's why the small instructor in the video I posted is able to move those larger guys with ease, I assume.

While I have been practicing everyday for about 7 years in the CMA's so my observation wouldn't be as astute as someone who started a thread about wanting to finally start learning them. Not to be rude but it seems that what I say about CMA's gets blown off a lot on this forum by people who have squat for experience while I have worked 2 jobs and practiced CMA's everyday for 7 years, but you all what to play the experience card when someone argues with you. Root does have a lot to do with the power generated but it also relies on the ability to use the entire body. This conserves energy and generates greater power.

Something else I notice is that internal arts practitioners like to keep body to body contact with their opponent to use leverage to set up sweeps, throws and strikes depending on their opponent's moves - the instructor for example pulling his opponent down, while launching an upward strike. And he admits that if his next move (a throw - fails) he is still in position to strike the head or even the groin.

Lots of flexibility

This is to take root away from the opponent because an internal martial artists understands the importance of a good foundation and where weight should be distributed. If you cannot hold yourself up how will you generate power to punch?

.

Jiujitsu and Muaythai may be more external martial arts and sport-focused today, but at different points in history they were arts that killed the enemy or opponent on the battlefield. Jiujitsu was used for Samurai whom lost their swords; muaythai was used by thai soldiers whom lost sword or staff and evolved from a weapon art (krabi krabong). And both arts are rich in history, where practitioners used their hands to kill.

The million dollar question: how do you keep a traditional art alive and deadly that is not used in the battlefield or watered down but applied in competition?

Simple don't add rules. Flexibility in the art and not saying "You can't do that".

[Tom Yum]

Thats because you don't have any idea what you are looking at. Everything you have been taught is about generating power through sheer muscle in one area of your body and not by using the whole body to generate it.

The power from a boxing punch requires coordination and power from lower and upperbody as well. The punch begins with a slight spring from the legs, whipping of the hips and snapping the punch through the target.

From my general observation of the Chinese arts, the power seems 'rooted' in lower stances than boxing, taking advantage of the ability to explode upward and outward to its target (using much more leg power) rather than straight in.

That's why the small instructor in the video I posted is able to move those larger guys with ease, I assume.

Therefore arguing with you any more on this matter would be a waste of time till you understand the basic concepts of what makes CMA's work.
But thanks for at least taking the time to watch them

Something else I notice is that internal arts practitioners like to keep body to body contact with their opponent to use leverage to set up sweeps, throws and strikes depending on their opponent's moves - the instructor for example pulling his opponent down, while launching an upward strike. And he admits that if his next move (a throw - fails) he is still in position to strike the head or even the groin.

Lots of flexibility.

Jiujitsu and Muaythai may be more external martial arts and sport-focused today, but at different points in history they were arts that killed the enemy or opponent on the battlefield. Jiujitsu was used for Samurai whom lost their swords; muaythai was used by thai soldiers whom lost sword or staff and evolved from a weapon art (krabi krabong). And both arts are rich in history, where practitioners used their hands to kill.

The million dollar question: how do you keep a traditional art alive and deadly that is not used in the battlefield or watered down but applied in competition?

[kingoftheforest]

Limited understanding

i get what you mean but no offense, those last 2 videos you posted looked even more weaksauce.

Thats because you don't have any idea what you are looking at. Everything you have been taught is about generating power through sheer muscle in one area of your body and not by using the whole body to generate it.

Therefore arguing with you any more on this matter would be a waste of time till you understand the basic concepts of what makes CMA's work.

But thanks for at least taking the time to watch them

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

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Her is a very short clip that is as close to Baji on uboob as you can get. Note I said as close as you can get.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPP_ndXVsgU&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5gfE...elated&search=

i get what you mean but no offense, those last 2 videos you posted looked even more weaksauce.

[Tom Yum]

Roger that. I see what you mean....by boat.

[BoarSpear]

Hey Tom I noticed your sig notes to yourself, just remember this, "there are no bridges in the Navy." (if it doesnt make sense now it will)

[Tom Yum]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2ETiQZzw6w

[BoarSpear]

Eveyone else, thanks for the vids, all very interesting...I'm still waiting to see Full Contact NHB Lei Tai fights though...

I've posted this clip many times in the past along along with the history and explaining the sheer number of deaths caused the Gov't to ban full contact Lei Tai matches. Feel free to search.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjq-4ptpR3M

[Baji87]

My Responses...

ttsure-

1) It is my understanding that in all schools the initial rigours are something that many can not endure and give up during. I'm up to the challenge.

2) I'm currently in the process of finding a teacher "I like"....though I'ld also go for one that was just ok if he is really skilled...

3) "Better to know one style very well than many styles not so well." I couldn't say it better myself, which is why I am doing a bit of research before I jump in to any one of the styles.

4) I Understand.

5) True, they do advertise little over here, with the exception of a few large schools in Changchun, Tianjin, and Canzhou....its mostly word of mouth which is why I keep yappin'...

thanks...

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Eveyone else, thanks for the vids, all very interesting...I'm still waiting to see Full Contact NHB Lei Tai fights though...

[kingoftheforest]

Sports

That's about as realistic to Baji as the Tae Kwon Do tournaments are to real Tae Kwon Do.

Sorry what they were doing is crap. That is a sport version not a real MA version

If you have rules and wear protective gear it's a sport. That was a sport not REAL Baji.

While entertaining and thank you Tom for putting forth a effort to at least find some video of Baji in action that was still a sporting event.

Her is a very short clip that is as close to Baji on uboob as you can get. Note I said as close as you can get.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPP_ndXVsgU&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5gfEdDHLZ4&mode=related&search=

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Bajiquan fight on tape and t.v.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ir0MWNtMv4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0JQG-Atg9o

those fights erre heavily restricted by rules. they didnt even allow punches to the face. what a joke. plus, a few moves they did in that first fight were blatantly coriagraphed.

[kingoftheforest]

A little leg work could help you a lot.

Eight infinite fist style.

http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/showthread.php?t=19635&highlight=baji

If you look hard enough there is plenty of info in this thread.

[Tom Yum]

Bajiquan fight on tape and t.v.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ir0MWNtMv4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0JQG-Atg9o

[ttsure]

My Comments

On the issue of BaJiQuan and your trying to learn all these different styles of the art. My comments are:

1. It might take you one year of practicing the same things to even grasp the introductory lesson of one of those styles.

2. Find one teacher you like and stick with him to learn the technique.

3. Better to know one style very well than many styles not so well.

4. The teachings of these styles takes much time -- do not hop around so much. You can "see" the techniques dozens of times but you have to practice them hundreds of times before you learn them.

5. In general, at least in the US there are very very few teachers of these styles, and not many of them advertise it. I have been to China only once, but they seem to advertise less over there.

[Baji87]

Certainly language is a problem, but I'm lucky enough to have friends who speak great English who will be willing to learn it with me. And soon I'll begin Mandarin courses myself.

No one knows the Styles or Families of Bajiquan? I know several, just not many...I know Wu which is the local taught in Mengcun...I know Huo Style which is taught in Changchun...Ma-Feng in Gansu...Liu style in Taiwan... But that's about all I know... so, I know where to go to find instructors, the problem is I now live in a very "small" city of 4,000,000 people, and if I am going to find someone, it is going to be a private, non-advertised person, unless I want to relocate to one of the aforementioned areas.

So, I continue to look here for now (because relocating is a big step)...and I continue to look for information about Baji because I am afforded the luxury that I can live anywhere I want to in China if I want, so I don't have to just settle for what's "available where I am".

"They all strike with the same weapons and follow the same principles and theories. What sets them apart is the size, build, attitude and personality and experience of the teacher, because those things will decide which techniques that lineage emphasizes. The techniques a lineage prefers will decide their timing and energy release." <---these are exactly the things I would like described to me about the different popular styles (such as Wu, Huo, and Ma-Feng), even if I can't completely understand until I learn one, I can at least get an idea about the things I'm going to learn.

Why's it hard to tell what is the more traditional styles? For example, I know more about Liu system than any other, and because of what I know I do not want to learn it. I don't care for the fact that they combine and intertwine multiple systems. To me, I would consider this more modern Baji, though some might argue it's the original combination of pigua and baji...hehe

You ask if I am "kidding" that there are common forms throughout the systems? Well, Bajimen (an apparently respected source on the subject) starts to list common forms among styles but stops after 5 or so...

Is there are difference between styles and branches in Baji? Does anyone know what they are?

You are right the that the truth of the lineage's does not matter...but being a student of History it is something I would like to know, even if people have differing stories and opinions.

You say I am not asking the right questions...I disagree...I'm asking all the questions I need or would liked answered from here. If some knows a baji instructor near me (doubtful), great! If not, oh well.

Thanks for the videos but I've seen them all. All very interesting. The internet used to seem so big...

Thanks for the welcome,

Eric