Brian Lewadney

[ido523]

i was looking up on Brian Lewadney, i searched his sifu's (william cheung) website, and Brian Lewadney wasnt on his list of instructors, how come? is this guy a fraud?

[cam]

If he is no longer affiliated with William Cheung, then he's obviously not going to be on a list of instuctors for Williams organization.

[ido523]

understood, thank you.

[SmallThought]

Brian Who???

G'day Ido.

As Mike says, there are many different reasons why an instructor would no longer affiliate himself with his original organisation and also reasons why an organisation would no longer affiliate themselves with an instructor.

Below are a couple of URLs for websites that list students of Yip Man and their own subsequent and noted students:

http://www.cebridge.com.au/Ipman/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branches_of_Wing_Chun#William_Cheung

You will find that their are many William Cheung students no longer affiliating with him, but you will also find that Brian Lewadney is listed on the wikipedia page (follow blue links or scroll down page for William Cheungs students as well as other Wing Chun instructors).

In fact, there are very few people who where instructors or top students while i was assistant instructor at the Melbourne headquarters who are still affiliated with Cheung; most have gone their own way.

That said, i do remember one guy called Brian (don't recall his surname) who turned up to train from Taiwan, or something. He lasted 6 months, was hopeless at forms, dummy, chi sao..... everything, including sparring/fighting, although he did grade to level 3 (of 10). Last i heard he had set up a Wing Chun school and was claiming to be a master, so, yes, there are frauds out there. I don't think this Brian and your Brian are the same, although i had never heard of him until now.

[Red Rum]

I would have more respect for the guy if he said that he wasn't affiliated with Cheung

William Cheung's schools are a joke and are probably the reason why people think that wing chun is rubish. People like Cheung insist that a couple of chain punches will bring down any opponent

I am sure that there might be one or two guys who used to train under Cheung who haven't turned out bad, but I have yet to find them

[SmallThought]

wow...

I am impressed by your restraint, RedRum! It's taken almost a month since this thread was begun for you to post some inflamitory comment about people practicing Traditional Wing Chun!!! Congratulations!

I'm also amazed at how willingly you display your ignorance. Chain punches are taught to beginners in most Wing Chun styles, but they are by no means the primary weapons of a proficient Traditional Wing Chun practitioner as taught by William Cheung and his principle students. Then again, i wouldn't expect you to let knowledge of a system (or lack of it) stop you from shooting quick from the key board.

May i also say that i was highly amused by your proposition to fight some of your class mates in a night club and video it for another internet forum. Funnily enough, for someone claiming to be a great Wing Chun fighter, able to beat all Traditional Wing Chun practitioners, you claimed that you wouldn't use wing chun in a open environment... what was it... kick boxing was the preferred option. And you didn't want to challenge people from other systems because it would give them time to prepare... so, you test your skills by king hitting people i assume!??! On top of that, you wouldn't use Wing Chun against another Wing Chun practitioner... hmmm.... when would you use Wing Chun, then???

I submit that it is in fact the likes of your good self who contribute to the apparent belief that Wing Chun if not effective. But anyhoo.....

(to see Red Rum's great night club fight idea, GOTO: http://wingchunfightclub.org/joomla/...=35&topic=53.0)

[Red Rum]

I am impressed by your restraint, RedRum! It's taken almost a month since this thread was begun for you to post some inflamitory comment about people practicing Traditional Wing Chun!!! Congratulations!

Yeah because most traditional wing chun (William Cheung) has many many flaws and is too small minded to survive in any place

I'm also amazed at how willingly you display your ignorance. Chain punches are taught to beginners in most Wing Chun styles, but they are by no means the primary weapons of a proficient Traditional Wing Chun practitioner as taught by William Cheung and his principle students. Then again, i wouldn't expect you to let knowledge of a system (or lack of it) stop you from shooting quick from the key board.

William Cheung and most of his instructors I have met who teach under Cheung claim that chain punches will finish a fight. Then when I see their chain punches it makes that statement even worse
We train chain punches, but teach students how to use them correctly
Not like we are doing some disco move
Defence of your teacher is admirable, but if you look through any martial arts website and mention William Cheung, no-one would say a good thing about him (maybe his own instructors, but even they probably hate him)

May i also say that i was highly amused by your proposition to fight some of your class mates in a night club and video it for another internet forum. Funnily enough, for someone claiming to be a great Wing Chun fighter, able to beat all Traditional Wing Chun practitioners, you claimed that you wouldn't use wing chun in a open environment... what was it... kick boxing was the preferred option. And you didn't want to challenge people from other systems because it would give them time to prepare... so, you test your skills by king hitting people i assume!??! On top of that, you wouldn't use Wing Chun against another Wing Chun practitioner... hmmm.... when would you use Wing Chun, then???

Why did you find that funny? People on fightclub wanted to see wing chun in action. And in a club scenario, I would almost always use wing chun. I volunteered to shoot a vid with my students but in the end declined because as has been stated on here - wing chun videos tend to almost be always against wing chun guys. I would just have been fanning the flames

I never claimed to beat all traditional wing chun fighters. I happen to know some extremely good martial artists who prefer to use traditional wing chun. Yet they train the traditional wing chun well and understand why they do what they do. Cheung doesn't. And he doesn't have any kind of streetfighting rep to back it up - hell the only good video he produced was him and Bozteppi
Why? Because it shows the flaws in sticking to one style

I submit that it is in fact the likes of your good self who contribute to the apparent belief that Wing Chun if not effective. But anyhoo.....

(to see Red Rum's great night club fight idea, GOTO: http://wingchunfightclub.org/joomla/...=35&topic=53.0)

Wing chun is effective, but limited. That wasn't my initial point. I was arguing that people laugh at wing chun not just for its ineffectiveness, but because people like Cheung delude themselves into thinking that wing chun alone will beat anything else in the world

[SmallThought]

Red Rum, Red Rum, Red Rum...

I must thank you for staying on topic and offering a reasonably well thought out response and not flying into out defamation as has been your want in the past. However, if you you take the time to read my other posts regarding Cheung, you will notice that i never in fact defend the man; i actually insinuate that his character is indeed one to be questioned.

What i have been taking exception to is the fact that you persistantly assert, as fact, what i know to be erroneous information in regard to the fighting system i have trained, as well as dismissing off-hand the abilities of myself and my seniors; people who you have never and are never likely to meet. In this, as i have said before, you are demonstrating no better behaviour than that which you say you hate in Cheung. I concede that there are many people who say they studied with Cheung who are indeed useless. Infact, i know many of my seniors who would not stand a chance in a real scenario against myself or other more talented practioners of the system who have taken the time to train technique so that it is second nature, and who have picked the system apart and learned to fully understand it application rather than believe the LEARNING excersises practiced in the kwoon are infact the FIGHTING techniques to be employed. I can assure you that my chain punches are no disco move, but by that same token, i would not use them other than in a very simple situation. Most people never realise that drills and sparring are just that, drills and sparring... they are not actual fighting, but learning exercises!

As for Cheung not having a street fighting reputation... well, that is really a disputable point and we can only agree to disagree; and as i'm sure i know Cheung, as well as many people who have known Cheung for a long time better than you do, i will not be convinced by your assertions. GrandMaster Cheung may not be well liked in the martial arts community, but i can assure you that he is respected for his fighting ability; at least in the higher escelons. If he weren't, how could he arrange friendly fights and system exchange programs with other Masters for his top student/s? If he had so little respect, why would the US military employ him and his top students for close range combat instruction?

I'm sure you will want to refute these as unsubtatiated claims, but i personally have no reason to believe that it is anything but true. I don't believe everything that comes out of the man's mouth as i have my own personal experiences that have extinguished any belief that he is some "hero", but i don't believe he is stupid enough to claim having trained the 7th Fleet unless he had done so, and i trust the students of his that i personally know who have also consulted with the US Military.

As for "street fighting" cred being established by capturing it on video; no offence; but you are just crating a bad image for yourself and other dedicated martial artists. I have a friend, about 5 years older than me, he weighs about 110kg, has broken 6 jaws in his time and knocked out countless mouth pieces, lives in a small country town where things where always settled on the street... infact, people from other country towns used to come looking for fights in this place... i can assure you, none of his fights have ever been caught on video but no-one who personally knows him ever doubts his fighting ability.

Another friend is about 140kg, 6' 4"... he grew up being beaten by his father... nothing hurts him. When i was 13 he used to lift me under the arms and hold me against the ceiling; he was 17 at the time; i would punch him as hard as i could and kick him in the chest and he would just laugh at me. Now, as a youngster, i used to fight like hell all the time as was a local whipping post... but thats another story; my point is i could hit hard enough to hurt most people. This freind (actually a freind of my brothers) has been witnessed taking on a guy armed with a motor cycle chain, has been witness picking up a patch wearing club member and using him to break a brick built bar in a pub and he has also been witnessed ripping out a traffic sign and wading into a group of 8 guys who were kicking shit out of my brother. He has never had his fights recorded on video either, but it would be a very foolish man who decided he could be taken in a fight with any style of matial arts.

By the way, neither of these guys have ever had any training other than in the school of hard knocks. Both are genuinely lovely blokes who wouldn't hurt a fly unless they were extremely provoked... but maybe it's just age that mellows them, that and i'm lucky never to have got on their bad side as i've known them since i was about 10 years old.

I'm a lot smaller than these guys but as i mentioned before, when i was young, i was at risk of ending up as hard as these guys. I hated fighting but was good at it for no reason other than i had to do it... alot. By the time i started Wing Chun at 21, i had had at least 22 knock down, drag 'em out fights (not to mention the times i just let guys king hit me and get away with it because it was easier than fighting... anyone who tried it twice got a beating because i truely went 'berserk'), had fought multiple attackers 3 times and had had a knife pulled on me during one of these attacks.

I actually started learning Wing Chun in order to, a/ control my temper (ever seen Erik the Viking?? " a true berserka knows when to contol his rage and when to unleash it" LOL), b/ neutralise attacks quickly WITHOUT causing too much harm as i had nearly broken a guy's neck at 16, and c/ learn a traditional fighting system, as martial arts tradition had alway facinated me. Since training Wing Chun (14 years), i have fought 5 tournaments and had 4 fights against multiple attackers (some of them trained fighters)... yes i've been hit, yes i've been hurt. Hell, i've even been covered in my own blood, but i can assure you that no-one i have fought for real, or who has seen me fight for real, would ever want to fight me again.

Actually, the thing i take pride in from my training is that there have been numerous other occassions when i could have fought, notched another one under my belt, but instead used the conflict resolution skills i learned from Wing Chun to defuse the situation.

I digress, but my point is that it is neither training nor video evidence of your escapades that make you a good fighter in the real world. The only thing that can do that is actually fighting, not disco dancing with your mates in a night club. Traing can help a good fighter, but it does not make them... a good fighter is created by a "strong spirit"... again, training can enhance that, but very few instructors can teach it to a student who does not already posess it.

The fact is, most people who really can fight never want to and do anything in their power not to fight... a/ they don't want to get hurt, b/ they don't want to hurt others and c/ they don't want the time off work to go to court/prison/hospital!!! The only people who go looking for it are unstable individuals who feel they have something to prove.

[SmallThought]

Good loord!!!

Sorry for that rediculously long post, everyone!!!
Was just trying to be thorough in my response... eek!

Cheers

[Red Rum]

Red Rum, Red Rum, Red Rum...

I must thank you for staying on topic and offering a reasonably well thought out response and not flying into out defamation as has been your want in the past. However, if you you take the time to read my other posts regarding Cheung, you will notice that i never in fact defend the man; i actually insinuate that his character is indeed one to be questioned..

Fair enough. But it is the man and the trraining that I am questioning

What i have been taking exception to is the fact that you persistantly assert, as fact, what i know to be erroneous information in regard to the fighting system i have trained, as well as dismissing off-hand the abilities of myself and my seniors; people who you have never and are never likely to meet. In this, as i have said before, you are demonstrating no better behaviour than that which you say you hate in Cheung. I concede that there are many people who say they studied with Cheung who are indeed useless. Infact, i know many of my seniors who would not stand a chance in a real scenario against myself or other more talented practioners of the system who have taken the time to train technique so that it is second nature, and who have picked the system apart and learned to fully understand it application rather than believe the LEARNING excersises practiced in the kwoon are infact the FIGHTING techniques to be employed. I can assure you that my chain punches are no disco move, but by that same token, i would not use them other than in a very simple situation. Most people never realise that drills and sparring are just that, drills and sparring... they are not actual fighting, but learning exercises! .

That's fair enough, and I will certainly concede that I have not trained with EVERY William Cheung student, only the ones that instructors have claimed to be their best. And seniority means nothing. I train in federations where people training hard and more determined for four years are better than those who have been training once a week for ten years

As for Cheung not having a street fighting reputation... well, that is really a disputable point and we can only agree to disagree; and as i'm sure i know Cheung, as well as many people who have known Cheung for a long time better than you do, i will not be convinced by your assertions. GrandMaster Cheung may not be well liked in the martial arts community, but i can assure you that he is respected for his fighting ability; at least in the higher escelons. If he weren't, how could he arrange friendly fights and system exchange programs with other Masters for his top student/s? If he had so little respect, why would the US military employ him and his top students for close range combat instruction?.

First off - Grandmaster? I do not think he can be termed in this way by any means. He is not respected for his fighting skills at all!
What 'masters' has he exchanged with? I cannot speak for the US military - maybe he was the cheapest instructor going...
Emin took Cheung apart in a few seconds and that was at a Cheung seminar under Cheung's rules
Every martial art forum so far has slated Cheung. And there are far more experienced martial artists on these forums than me. Strange that

I'm sure you will want to refute these as unsubtatiated claims, but i personally have no reason to believe that it is anything but true. I don't believe everything that comes out of the man's mouth as i have my own personal experiences that have extinguished any belief that he is some "hero", but i don't believe he is stupid enough to claim having trained the 7th Fleet unless he had done so, and i trust the students of his that i personally know who have also consulted with the US Military..

WT train the German FBI and it is their biggest claim on their website
Cheung trains soldiers from the US. It is his biggest claim (aside from being solely responsible for Bruce Lee, oh and being the only one to know the true Bil Gee).
Claims like these only make me laugh. It is to draw beginners into his classes. I know, because most federations I train under also use silly claims to get people through the doors. The claims mean nothing, just sales tactics

As for "street fighting" cred being established by capturing it on video; no offence; but you are just crating a bad image for yourself and other dedicated martial artists. I have a friend, about 5 years older than me, he weighs about 110kg, has broken 6 jaws in his time and knocked out countless mouth pieces, lives in a small country town where things where always settled on the street... infact, people from other country towns used to come looking for fights in this place... i can assure you, none of his fights have ever been caught on video but no-one who personally knows him ever doubts his fighting ability. .

Yeah but he isn't trying to show that a certain style works. We are not talking about an individual being able to fight - we are talking about a system working. People around teh globe doubt wing chun because of what Cheung and leung Ting have done to its reputation
I know several hard guys who were born and bred and tough places. The avergae guy on the street does not want to live that kind of life but wants to be able to fight well
That is why we have martial arts
Unless you are saying that anyone who wants to do martial arts should live in a small country town. And bumpkins fighting bumpkins doesn't really impress me. I'm a big guy and before I did wing chun i played rugby where every game was about smashing your opponents and destroying them on the field
That makes you tough but there was no skill involved in any punch etc
If a bigger guy came along he would have taken me out

Another friend is about 140kg, 6' 4"... he grew up being beaten by his father... nothing hurts him. When i was 13 he used to lift me under the arms and hold me against the ceiling; he was 17 at the time; i would punch him as hard as i could and kick him in the chest and he would just laugh at me. Now, as a youngster, i used to fight like hell all the time as was a local whipping post... but thats another story; my point is i could hit hard enough to hurt most people. This freind (actually a freind of my brothers) has been witnessed taking on a guy armed with a motor cycle chain, has been witness picking up a patch wearing club member and using him to break a brick built bar in a pub and he has also been witnessed ripping out a traffic sign and wading into a group of 8 guys who were kicking shit out of my brother. He has never had his fights recorded on video either, but it would be a very foolish man who decided he could be taken in a fight with any style of matial arts..

Hahaha sorry, I can't stop laughing

By the way, neither of these guys have ever had any training other than in the school of hard knocks. Both are genuinely lovely blokes who wouldn't hurt a fly unless they were extremely provoked... but maybe it's just age that mellows them, that and i'm lucky never to have got on their bad side as i've known them since i was about 10 years old..

Get them into an MMA gym or any good martial arts school and see how long they last

I'm a lot smaller than these guys but as i mentioned before, when i was young, i was at risk of ending up as hard as these guys. I hated fighting but was good at it for no reason other than i had to do it... alot. By the time i started Wing Chun at 21, i had had at least 22 knock down, drag 'em out fights (not to mention the times i just let guys king hit me and get away with it because it was easier than fighting... anyone who tried it twice got a beating because i truely went 'berserk'), had fought multiple attackers 3 times and had had a knife pulled on me during one of these attacks. .

Sorry, still laughing...

I actually started learning Wing Chun in order to, a/ control my temper (ever seen Erik the Viking?? " a true berserka knows when to contol his rage and when to unleash it" LOL), b/ neutralise attacks quickly WITHOUT causing too much harm as i had nearly broken a guy's neck at 16, and c/ learn a traditional fighting system, as martial arts tradition had alway facinated me. Since training Wing Chun (14 years), i have fought 5 tournaments and had 4 fights against multiple attackers (some of them trained fighters)... yes i've been hit, yes i've been hurt. Hell, i've even been covered in my own blood, but i can assure you that no-one i have fought for real, or who has seen me fight for real, would ever want to fight me again. .

What a load of nonsense. I have entered into plenty of bare knuckle tournaments and underground fights - every single opponent I have faced I would fight again. Your arrogance proceeds you if you truly think that everyone fears you

Actually, the thing i take pride in from my training is that there have been numerous other occassions when i could have fought, notched another one under my belt, but instead used the conflict resolution skills i learned from Wing Chun to defuse the situation..

The fact that you are 'notching' up fights speaks volumes about your character

I digress, but my point is that it is neither training nor video evidence of your escapades that make you a good fighter in the real world. The only thing that can do that is actually fighting, not disco dancing with your mates in a night club. Traing can help a good fighter, but it does not make them... a good fighter is created by a "strong spirit"... again, training can enhance that, but very few instructors can teach it to a student who does not already posess it. .

I have no idea where you got the idea that a video makes you a good fighter but I certainly never said that.
The point of the video was to show that wing chun is effective in many situations and against different arts. If it gets caught out then yes, that is where you can fall back onto arts like BJJ
But as an art it can usually cope without involving other arts

The fact is, most people who really can fight never want to and do anything in their power not to fight... a/ they don't want to get hurt, b/ they don't want to hurt others and c/ they don't want the time off work to go to court/prison/hospital!!! The only people who go looking for it are unstable individuals who feel they have something to prove.

That is a foolish statement. Do you think people like Lenny Mclean 'didn't want to fight?'. And are you saying that the UFC fighters are rubbish?
tehy go out every night and traion most of their life to FIGHT and HURT OTHERS

I take it your American

[SmallThought]

After reading your responses to what i have written there seems to be no reason for me to respond, as you continue to prove my point admirably, thank you.

[SmallThought]

Oh, one more thing.... i'm sure any intelligent person who reads my posts understands the tone and context in which they were written without your crude attempts at interpereting them in the negative.... thank you.

[Red Rum]

After reading your responses to what i have written there seems to be no reason for me to respond, as you continue to prove my point admirably, thank you.

You just did, idiot

[ido523]

thank you people.

I would have more respect for the guy if he said that he wasn't affiliated with Cheung

William Cheung's schools are a joke and are probably the reason why people think that wing chun is rubish. People like Cheung insist that a couple of chain punches will bring down any opponent

I am sure that there might be one or two guys who used to train under Cheung who haven't turned out bad, but I have yet to find them

hi everyone, thank you for taking time answering my question. i had time a few weeks ago to check out brian's school myself, and as "red rum" said, they do use the chain punches as their "finishing move". i thought the school was ineffective. brian also claims himself as an "extraordinary student" of cheung.

[cam]

Yes a finishing move where the opponent or prearranged attacker just stands there and does'nt fight back?
It's next to impossible to get a chain punch to land when some one is resisting. Let alone in a real fight.
IMO, the chain punch is only good for conditioning. But, that should not even be focused on too much as I think it's better to focus on developing a powerful, relaxed punch using proper structure and not a flury of low quality punches.
I believe the chain punch should be taught as a concept and not a way to finish your opponent.
I also find that those who focus on the chain punch tend to think it is all they need to win a fight. Not saying it could never work. Just not a practical way to learn and not a proper understanding of wc. IMO.