Wing Chun let me down in a fight

I met Paul through my current instructor when we were stationed together at Damn Neck. I'm not slamming Paul, but no fucking way he's a nice guy. Perhaps he's mellowed with age but the Paul I was acquainted with 20 some odd years ago was anything but a nice guy. Maybe you wouldn't mind him dating your daughter but I'd have a problem with it. Not being a nice guy wasn't meant as an insult. If you know Paul then you're aware of his history and saying he isn't a nice guy is a mild assessment. It's admirable you're running to your friends defense, but even Paul would laugh if you tried to tell him he's a nice guy.

You met the guy and formed an opinion, thats cool, but it was 20 years ago.

Paul has changed, immeasurably. Especially over the last five years I have noticed a real change in him, a lot of what Paul was notorious for (and I know exactly what you are referring to) has been left behind.

The way he now trains and lives, the people he chooses to teach and associate with, and the way he relates to those around him. In my opinion and experience he is a great guy, and he is definitely not the guy he was 20 years ago. I'm sure very few people are, I know I'm certainly not.

[TTEscrima]

Could I ask what you are basing that on? Have you met Paul, is he a friend or instructor of yours? I hope so, before you go bounding round opinions like that.

I've been Paul's student for over ten years, he has been an amazing friend and support to me, in my experience he is one of the nicest guys you could hope to meet.

I met Paul through my current instructor when we were stationed together at Damn Neck. I'm not slamming Paul, but no fucking way he's a nice guy. Perhaps he's mellowed with age but the Paul I was acquainted with 20 some odd years ago was anything but a nice guy. Maybe you wouldn't mind him dating your daughter but I'd have a problem with it. Not being a nice guy wasn't meant as an insult. If you know Paul then you're aware of his history and saying he isn't a nice guy is a mild assessment. It's admirable you're running to your friends defense, but even Paul would laugh if you tried to tell him he's a nice guy.

The Gracies aren't what I'd call nice people, neither is Paul Vunak.

Could I ask what you are basing that on? Have you met Paul, is he a friend or instructor of yours? I hope so, before you go bounding round opinions like that.

I've been Paul's student for over ten years, he has been an amazing friend and support to me, in my experience he is one of the nicest guys you could hope to meet.

[TTEscrima]

You know you're in trouble when start quoting Wikipedia.

I don't care where you look it up you won't find a definition of the Martial arts that includes teaching discipline. But just to make you look even sillier here's the definition from Britannica encyclopedia.

Martial ART:any of various fighting sports or skills, mainly of East Asian origin, such as kung fu, judo, karate, and kendō.

Martial arts can be divided into the armed and unarmed arts. The former include archery, spearmanship, and swordsmanship; the latter, which originated in China, emphasize striking with the feet and hands or grappling. In Japan, traditionally a warrior’s training emphasized archery, swordsmanship, unarmed combat, and swimming in armour. Members of other classes interested in combat concentrated on arts using the staff, everyday work implements (such as thrashing flails, sickles, and knives), and unarmed combat. Perhaps the most versatile practice was ninjutsu, which was developed for military spies in feudal Japan and also included training in disguise, escape, concealment, geography, meteorology, medicine, and explosives. In modern times, derivatives of some of the armed martial arts, such as kendō (fencing) and kyūdō (archery), are practiced as sports. Derivatives of the unarmed forms of combat, such as judo, sumo, karate, and tae kwon do, are practiced, as are self-defense forms, such as aikido, hapkido, and kung fu. Simplified forms of T’ai Chi ch’uan, a Chinese form of unarmed combat, are popular as healthful exercise, quite divorced from martial origins.

And one from Websters dictionary
Main Entry:
martial art
Function:
noun
Date:
1928

: any of several arts of combat and self defense (as karate and judo) that are widely practiced as sport

That's not discipline. That's bad parenting, and possibly child abuse.

Spoken like a little punk who had to be pulled from TKD because his parents couldn't control him.

[fireundubh]

You know you're in trouble when start quoting Wikipedia.

Discipline is what an adult should have done when you were picking on the other kids: IE you needed your little ass whupped.

That's not discipline. That's bad parenting, and possibly child abuse.

[TTEscrima]

When I studied tae kwon do as a kindergartener, I'd fight with classmates to practice our arts, as well as bully other kids off the swingsets, or so I'm told. This resulted in many visits to the principal's office, and I was eventually pulled by my parents from the tae kwon do program.

My mother, when she lived in the Phillipines over 40 years ago, achieved 3rd dan as a jūdōka. If there's one thing I remember from everything my mom taught me, it's that martial arts is all about discipline, the discipline necessary to survive and to endure through conflict and trying situations.

If you don't have that discipline, that sort of Spartan reserve, and you're eager to attack whomever wherever for whatever reason because you think yourself a "fighter" or a student of "extreme violence," you're not a martial artist. You're just a thug.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of pathetic people who train in martial arts to fight or threaten harm. These people missed the boat. They should be training to be prepared physically and mentally for conflict, and not to promote and perpetuate conflict to satiate their senseless thirst for, and masochistic predisposition to, violence.

Martial arts are systems of codified practices and traditions of training for combat. Though studied for various reasons, broadly speaking, martial arts share a single objective: to defeat a person physically or to defend oneself from physical threat.

Martial arts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Discipline is what an adult should have done when you were picking on the other kids: IE you needed your little ass whupped. The Martial arts are not about teaching manners and etiquette to people's kids who were incapable of doing so themselves, regardless of the sales pitch the BB factories spout to parents.

[fireundubh]

Thats pure Hollywood, the majority of capable fighters/teachers I've met were anything but Mr Miyagi. Many good Martial artist have a good sense of humor but in my experience "nice" people really don't enjoy the study of extreme violence.

When I studied tae kwon do as a kindergartener, I'd fight with classmates to practice our arts, as well as bully other kids off the swingsets, or so I'm told. This resulted in many visits to the principal's office, and I was eventually pulled by my parents from the tae kwon do program.

My mother, when she lived in the Phillipines over 40 years ago, achieved 3rd dan as a jūdōka. If there's one thing I remember from everything my mom taught me, it's that martial arts is all about discipline, the discipline necessary to survive and to endure through conflict and trying situations.

If you don't have that discipline, that sort of Spartan reserve, and you're eager to attack whomever wherever for whatever reason because you think yourself a "fighter" or a student of "extreme violence," you're not a martial artist. You're just a thug.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of pathetic people who train in martial arts to fight or threaten harm. These people missed the boat. They should be training to be prepared physically and mentally for conflict, and not to promote and perpetuate conflict to satiate their senseless thirst for, and masochistic predisposition to, violence.

[TTEscrima]

Eat Shit! I'm a nice guy!

Compared to Hannibal Lecter. Oh and you don't have an opinionated bone in your body either.

[TTEscrima]

ad infinitum.

Ad infinitum? Hardly. You named mostly professional athletes not martial artist, but regardless you'll find more assholes than nice people even on that list. The Gracies aren't what I'd call nice people, neither is Paul Vunak, nor was Miyamoto Musashi, Michael Echanis definitely was not a nice guy, Bob Spour, funny but hardly a nice guy. The Shaolin monks weren't so nice either until the emperor decreed Shaolin either teach morality alongside the martial arts or close the temple. Rest assured you'll find far more assholes than nice people in the history of the Martial arts. Take a look at Gun and knife forums and Martial art forums and you'll discover the majority are full of opinionated assholes, not nice people.

[Tant01]

Who was it that said "Always be professional, be polite but have a plan to kill anyone you meet."

LOL

[Liberty]

Thats pure Hollywood, the majority of capable fighters/teachers I've met were anything but Mr Miyagi. Many good Martial artist have a good sense of humor but in my experience "nice" people really don't enjoy the study of extreme violence.

Just to be difficult many top martial artists, instructors, coaches and fighters have been known to be some of the nicest people you could ever meet. Larry Hartsell, Evander Hollyfield, BJ Penn, Gina Carano ad infinitum.

Mike Tyson, wait that's the opposite list - LOL!

[TTEscrima]

(So much for martial arts teaching discipline...)

Thats pure Hollywood, the majority of capable fighters/teachers I've met were anything but Mr Miyagi. Many good Martial artist have a good sense of humor but in my experience "nice" people really don't enjoy the study of extreme violence.

[Liberty]

Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

You're all off-topic! Down, boys. Down.

(So much for martial arts teaching discipline...)

What, you can't apreciate a little keyboard sparring - "flame on! - LOL!

[fireundubh]

Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

You're all off-topic! Down, boys. Down.

(So much for martial arts teaching discipline...)

[Liberty]

Michael, once he breaks out the dictionary it's no use.

I've noticed Liberty likes to argue, but his methods of baiting are pretty obvious. He's working the same game on me via PM.

Liberty, I say this in all sincerity:
If you want to debate here, just debate. There's no need to prod or get personal. What inevitably happens when you go down that road is that the debate gets personal on both sides, and then you start complaining that everyone is misunderstanding you. It's like building in your excuse to quit. If you get in over your head, you bow out by saying that it's getting too personal when in fact you sow those seeds. Very much like sending me that article you sent me. Trying to get me to go on offense over something that's horribly biased and likely not true at all (not to mention several years out of date) is a pretty obvious set up. No need to manipulate (or attempt to). Just debate and discuss and roll with what comes.

The only thing horribly biased is your preconcieved opinion. By the way, nice how you break a trust when it suits your ego. I've pm ed and been pm ed by others on forums before, regarding clarity on a personal level and thus far you are the first to spit on that trust. You're in a class all by yourself, "brother."