Kung Fu and MMA

[Tom Yum]

And your point? Someone who has superior attributes isn't always the superior combatant.

Agreed. Depends on the venue, rules of engagement. The point is that there are always better combatants.

Neither have I. However my statements were made to illustrate that Bruce didn't know what it took to easily beat most fifteen-year seasoned martial artists because he had been shown by those martial artists that he could be beaten. If it was so easy and only took a year of training, he'd have done it.

Do we have any unbeaten martial artists posting here on defend.net?

Anyone whose ever stepped on a mat, whether learning wrestling or SQT CQD (for instance) has had to take their lumps at least once, maybe a few times.

I remember Boar talking about his first experiences with a real gongfu instructor, I'm certain jubaji probably found himself on the wrong end of a suplex while learning wrestling, tanto getting tripped up in judo, I've sparred/grappled/fought against different kinds of fighters whom were more experienced and just better fighters.

Uke, are you the invincible RBSD guy?

[Tom Yum]

You found my old Christmas message!

Must have been "Irish" coffee

[Tom Yum]

So anyway, back to the discussion,

1. I think as we have shown by the experts and sound reasoning, that Kung Fu survival combat and sport MMA are two very different systems. Can we all say yes? .

Different - like apples and oranges.

Kung-fu survival combat (like other TMA combat) really requires instruction with someone who has used their skill for that purpose. Every style has its own qin-na, making it more devastating in the infighting/grappling range - not to mention forms applications.

Referencing Boar's old videos, everything in the forms is used has a combat application or supports something useful to combat and seemed flexible - that is a step in one form may put the practitioner outside the practitioners linear attack, but if the fighter steps back in response to his step or turns, his footwork can account for that as well.

Sure this is done in boxing footwork, but this has been done in gong fu for longer, but no one made it a point to really show this or teach it as such, instead just made it a dead move.

2. Also that Kung Fu has a long history of development and combat readiness? Can we all say yes?.

Gongfu also has had a fair number of McDojo instruction as well - gongfu that is flowery and useless.

3. And that Kung Fu is a wonderful fighting style that every single martial artist in the planet should seriously consider when thinking of self defense? Can we all say yes?.

Its hard finding quality instruction. Gongfu styles are meant to be complete systems of fighting - with techniques/applications found in forms that can be used for combat at the striking/kicking range and qin-na for infighting/grappling.

Unfortunately, you do not always get complete or quality instruction - so there are gaps - lack of instruction on how to flow from striking to qin-na

or

in some cases the form-fighting techniques are abandoned for kickboxing.

Karate, Jujitsut, Silat etc. are effective fighting styles as well.

4. And though many martial arts systems are good and useful for combat, kung fu may be one of the most comprehensive systems on the planet? Can we all say yes??.

See above.

5. And lastly that those who may poke at kung fu as soft and useless in combat really do not understand what they are talking about? Can we all say yes??.

Yes.

The Chinese are very secretive and protective about their gong-fu, especially if they know how to use it - so it isn't wide spread leaving few examples of effective gong-fu to draw from.

And if people can't see it, they won't believe it. Those who have - already know. Here's some TMA in action.

Kuksool (Korean martial arts) Master Instructor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EqrKy1d0sM

Gong fu San Soo for Recon Marines

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFvyaGt3OY0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4c4XvxZHdU

Some individuals will learn gongfu for a good number of years but never complete the system, splinter off because of bad politics in the art, teach and still have alot to offer but not the complete picture.

In addition, Chinese MA instructors will take their time in waiting for a student to prove themselves trustworthy of their art.

These are my opinions on the art, which are certainly subject to biases and limited time with the TMAs.

If you cannot say yes to any of these points, please share your reasoning with us.

[jubaji]

I'm certain jubaji probably found himself on the wrong end of a suplex while learning wrestling,

I only lost every single match for the first six years or so...

[Tant01]

Too true!!!

I only lost every single match for the first six years or so...

If I had a dollar for every time I was thrown....

Well...

[Uke]

Ju-bark!-ji

How's your anti-conditioning program going, pUke? Are you out of shape enough to be really, really deadly yet?

Even if I did let myself get in bad shape I wouldn't even break a sweat putting you down quick. You'd buy yourself a whole lot more than just a smack in the mouth if your courage could exist outside of cyberspace.

And since we are asking questions mongrel, what and where have you studied? Is that classified or are you just afraid that the truth will confirm that you're just a sack hanging mouthpiece?

Seems that we all have openly discussed our training. No one here has avoided it but you. You're extra careful to never mention anything technical, relevant or telling.

Why is that, mongrel?

Is your ass sewed up the reason why you can only talk shit? Got no other way out but through your mouth?

Or maybe you just pretend to not know anything to keep up the anonymity ... so you can keep selling the backward ass idea that MMA is SD to your students while they have no idea that its you that is the loser behind the mask. I notice you rarely if ever stalk and hump the leg of the MMA crowd regardless of how much crap they spew on any given day.

It becomes clearer when factoring in that without writing any MA posts, you haven't been banned. So either you are a mod, the owner of this site, or you've got your ugly mug buried in the right man's lap.

Ewww.

[Uke]

Do we have any unbeaten martial artists posting here on defend.net?

Anyone whose ever stepped on a mat, whether learning wrestling or SQT CQD (for instance) has had to take their lumps at least once, maybe a few times.

I remember Boar talking about his first experiences with a real gongfu instructor, I'm certain jubaji probably found himself on the wrong end of a suplex while learning wrestling, tanto getting tripped up in judo, I've sparred/grappled/fought against different kinds of fighters whom were more experienced and just better fighters.

Uke, are you the invincible RBSD guy?

Well if my reply last time to you on this very subject was that I never met anyone invincible, why ask the same question twice, Tommy?

[jubaji]

Even though I have always been in bad shape I wouldn't even break a sweat putting you down quick.

LOL! Oh, I'm sure, 'cause you seem like a bad, bad man and not at all an empty bag of wind.

[Tant01]

C'mon Ju... You KNOW we're ALL "virtually" invincible! LOL

[jubaji]

And since we are asking questions mongrel, what and where have you studied? Is that classified or are you just afraid that the truth will confirm that you're just a sack hanging mouthpiece?

You haven't been paying attention, pUke. But since you seem to love me so much...

Let's see, I started wrestling when I was 7, and have been doing that ever since. After college I decided to head over to China and see what was going on over there. Got a job in Xi'an and studied taijiquan with Chen Quanzhong and KF at a school in the Muslim quarter there for two years (when not working, of course). Also found the provincial wrestling team and worked out regularly with them while I was there. Met some nice folks during my time there, including some Japanese teachers. They were so nice in fact that when my contract was up I headed over to Japan and got a job there. A few jobs actually. Was there off and on for about three years I guess. Practiced kendo, nihon kempo, and aikido while I was there. Also found a local wrestling club and worked out with them. Also ran into assorted other folks studying this and that and worked out with them when we had time. One guy was a WC guy, a few others were ninjutsu guys (got to jump into a practice with Hatsumi sensei once) some were K-1 fighters, some were judoka, all sorts of folks. Back in the States I've kept on wrestling (of course) and done a little of this and that as time and work allow. I've worked out and sparred with TKD, taekkyon, boxing, MMA, BJJ, WC, ninjutsu, American kempo, san shou, etc. whatever I could try my hand at. But wrestling is always my main thing and I make it a point to wrestle 3-4 times a week (although I was recently laid up after surgery and just before that something much more important kept me too busy to hit the mat for a while).

So, that's about it. We usually spend a week or two in Kyoto each year if we can to visit family, and work takes me to Korea and China every now and again (but there's usually no time for 'training' on such trips).





There ya go, pUke. That should give you and the hairdressers enough material for several years worth of pissy little asides every time your empty arguments fall flat and you need an out.

[jubaji]

C'mon Ju... You KNOW we're ALL "virtually" invincible! LOL

Heavy on the virtual, light on the invincible.

[Tant01]

Sombo/SAMBO? Q???

You haven't been paying attention, pUke. But since you seem to love me so much...

Let's see, I started wrestling when I was 7, ....

...So, that's about it. We usually spend a week or two in Kyoto each year if we can to visit family, and work takes me to Korea and China every now and again (but there's usually no time for 'training' on such trips).





There ya go, pUke. That should give you and the hairdressers enough material for several years worth of pissy little asides every time your empty arguments fall flat and you need an out.

Have you ever played with Sambo Jubaji? I still see a LOT of missed opportunities for leg locks in MMA these days...?

[jubaji]

Have you ever played with Sambo Jubaji? ...?

That is one I have not yet. Hopefully, one day...

[Tom Yum]

LOL! Oh, I'm sure, 'cause you seem like a bad, bad man and not at all an empty bag of wind.

He mentions he studies RBSD combatives and has studied karate, judo/jiujitsu and maybe kali - but I could be wrong - that's not nuthin' if it is true.

[Tom Yum]

You haven't been paying attention, pUke. But since you seem to love me so much...

Let's see, I started wrestling when I was 7, and have been doing that ever since. After college I decided to head over to China and see what was going on over there. Got a job in Xi'an and studied taijiquan with Chen Quanzhong and KF at a school in the Muslim quarter there for two years (when not working, of course). Also found the provincial wrestling team and worked out regularly with them while I was there. Met some nice folks during my time there, including some Japanese teachers. They were so nice in fact that when my contract was up I headed over to Japan and got a job there. A few jobs actually. Was there off and on for about three years I guess. Practiced kendo, nihon kempo, and aikido while I was there. Also found a local wrestling club and worked out with them. Also ran into assorted other folks studying this and that and worked out with them when we had time. One guy was a WC guy, a few others were ninjutsu guys (got to jump into a practice with Hatsumi sensei once) some were K-1 fighters, some were judoka, all sorts of folks. Back in the States I've kept on wrestling (of course) and done a little of this and that as time and work allow. I've worked out and sparred with TKD, taekkyon, boxing, MMA, BJJ, WC, ninjutsu, American kempo, san shou, etc. whatever I could try my hand at. But wrestling is always my main thing and I make it a point to wrestle 3-4 times a week (although I was recently laid up after surgery and just before that something much more important kept me too busy to hit the mat for a while).

So, that's about it. We usually spend a week or two in Kyoto each year if we can to visit family, and work takes me to Korea and China every now and again (but there's usually no time for 'training' on such trips).

.

Can you speak more on your experience with the traditional arts and putting them to work?

That's an undercovered but good potential topic since alot folks (esp. younger ones) think that MMA is the be all end all of martial arts experience.

Don't get me wrong, I love training muaythai, CSW and what not but people forget that muaythai is a traditional martial art (once fought to death) and that there are arts that can be used for combat/self-defense.

As mentioned before the traditional Korean arts were added to combatives in the 70's during the Vietnam war. TCMAs and jiujitsu/judo were the base prior to that.

Fast forward to the 90's, MCMAP had to be revamped because live practice created too many long-term injuries...