Fake american " shoalin grandmasters"

[Tom Yum]

Actually BJJ isn't like Japanese Jiu Jitsu. The Gracie's have every right to call it Brazilian. A master of Japanes Jiu Jitsu traveled to Brazil and taught Helio Gracie the Japanese style Jiu Jitsu. Helio modified it to use less strength like Japanese Jiu Jitsu does and use more leverage so that the smaller person could use it more effectively. They are totally different in aproach and philosophy and in applying techniques.

Well said.

[JadeDragon]

Well said.

xie' xie'

[Tant01]

Actually?

Actually BJJ isn't like Japanese Jiu Jitsu. The Gracie's have every right to call it Brazilian. A master of Japanes Jiu Jitsu traveled to Brazil and taught Helio Gracie the Japanese style Jiu Jitsu. Helio modified it to use less strength like Japanese Jiu Jitsu does and use more leverage so that the smaller person could use it more effectively. They are totally different in aproach and philosophy and in applying techniques.

The Gracie PROPAGANDA MACHINE would have you believe Madea was a JUJUTSU MASTER. The fact of the matter is He was a Judoka. "It is often claimed that BJJ is a development of traditional Japanese jujutsu, and that Maeda was a jujutsuka. However, Maeda never trained in jujutsu. He first trained in sumo as a teenager, and after the interest generated by stories about the success of judo at contests between judo and jujutsu that were occurring at the time, he changed from sumo to judo, becoming a student of Kano's Kodokan judo... (wikipedia)


He taught Helio's Brother Carlos, Judo (newaza)... and "in 1921 Gastão Gracie and his family moved to Rio de Janeiro. Carlos, then 17 years old, passed Maeda's teachings on to his brothers Osvaldo, Gastão and Jorge. Hélio was too young and sick at that time to learn the art, and due to medical imposition was prohibited to take part in the training sessions. Despite that, Hélio learned jiu-jitsu by watching his brothers. He eventually overcame his health problems and is now considered by many as the founder of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (though others, such as Carlson Gracie, have pointed to Carlos as the founder of the art)" Wiki...


There's a lot of BS about BJJ/GJJ floating around. It's all Judo to me.

[Ben Grimm]

Well that's it. I did a little BJJ and little Judo before coming to China. Only did 3 months in both of them. They were both very similar.

[JadeDragon]

The Gracie PROPAGANDA MACHINE would have you believe Madea was a JUJUTSU MASTER. The fact of the matter is He was a Judoka. "It is often claimed that BJJ is a development of traditional Japanese jujutsu, and that Maeda was a jujutsuka. However, Maeda never trained in jujutsu. He first trained in sumo as a teenager, and after the interest generated by stories about the success of judo at contests between judo and jujutsu that were occurring at the time, he changed from sumo to judo, becoming a student of Kano's Kodokan judo... (wikipedia)

And you beleive everything you read on Wikapedia? Thats not the most reliable source ya know? I got my information from a published book on BJJ. It stated that Madea was a judo practicioner but it also said he did tradaditional Japanese jiu jitsu as well. Until you show me a source other than Wikapedia such as a actual book I'm going to go with my source over Wikipedia. No offense.

[Tant01]

It's YOUR money! LOL

And you beleive everything you read on Wikapedia? Thats not the most reliable source ya know? I got my information from a published book on BJJ. It stated that Madea was a judo practicioner but it also said he did tradaditional Japanese jiu jitsu as well. Until you show me a source other than Wikapedia such as a actual book I'm going to go with my source over Wikipedia. No offense.

As you wish. I'm not here to unwrap the "mystery" of GJJ for you.

Buy the HYPE!

LMAO

[Tant01]

Go look in your book again JD. I bet you $5.00 (USD) it calls Kimura a jiu-jitsu man too?

LOL

[JadeDragon]

Wheather or not a Japanese Jiu Jitsu guy taught Traditional Jiu Jitsu to the Gracie's or not does not really matter. The fact remains that BJJ and traditional jj is not the same and that it was a Gracie from Brazil that modified trad jj to leverage techniques so that a smaller opponent could defeat a larger opponent and where strength was not an issue. By them modifying trad jj and them being from Brazil I feel this gives them the right to call it BJJ since it is different from trad jj and it orig. in Brazil.

[Tant01]

Afraid not...

Wheather or not a Japanese Jiu Jitsu guy taught Traditional Jiu Jitsu to the Gracie's or not does not really matter. The fact remains that BJJ and traditional jj is not the same and that it was a Gracie from Brazil that modified trad jj to leverage techniques so that a smaller opponent could defeat a larger opponent and where strength was not an issue. By them modifying trad jj and them being from Brazil I feel this gives them the right to call it BJJ since it is different from trad jj and it orig. in Brazil.

I'm sure "GM HELIO" would like to take credit for that but it was already done for him by Kano.

Carlos G was taught JUDO by a JUDOKA. Sorry if that hurts your feelings buddy...

[JadeDragon]

Go look in your book again JD. I bet you $5.00 (USD) it calls Kimura a jiu-jitsu man too?

LOL

I'm sure "GM HELIO" would like to take credit for that but it was already done for him by Kano.

Carlos G was taught JUDO by a JUDOKA. Sorry if that hurts your feelings buddy...

Well buddy......it doesn't really matter to me who invented it and it doesn't hurt my feelings becuase I don't even do BJJ or Traditional Jiu Jitsu. I do CMA's. I could care less about any type of Jiu Jitsu, so how do ya like them apples???? I did BJJ about 8 yrs ago for a total of 9 months just to learn the basics and some submissions to incorporate into my wrestling background and that was it. So why the big deal about who taught the Gracie's and who invented BJJ? Who cares? All that should matter is wheather or not it is effective or not.

[Tant01]

My background in Judo...

Well buddy......it doesn't really matter to me who invented it and it doesn't hurt my feelings becuase I don't even do BJJ or Traditional Jiu Jitsu. I do CMA's. I could care less about any type of Jiu Jitsu, so how do ya like them apples???? I did BJJ about 8 yrs ago for a total of 9 months just to learn the basics and some submissions to incorporate into my wrestling background and that was it. So why the big deal about who taught the Gracie's and who invented BJJ? Who cares? All that should matter is wheather or not it is effective or not.

It's just a proverbial thorn in my Gi...

IF BJJ came from "jiu-jitsu" there should be a clear lineage to some TRADITIONAL ryu ha. There is none. It came straight from Kano...

[JadeDragon]

Like I said....I don't care about where it came from. It works, thats all that I care about. I'll use it if I have to but I'll use my kung fu skills first because thats where my roots are and thats what I feel most comfortable with. If that fails then I'll go to grappleing.

[Tant01]

Relevance?

Like I said....I don't care about where it came from. It works, thats all that I care about. I'll use it if I have to but I'll use my kung fu skills first because thats where my roots are and thats what I feel most comfortable with. If that fails then I'll go to grappleing.

Is your KF lineage of some importance? Is there any reason to spell your style name in some obscure dialectic refrence?

No? Would it be "stealing" to say your master was not a kung fu teacher? How about if you claim to "MODIFY" a certain mis spelled STYLE and call yourself the GRAND Master of it?

Don't get me wrong, I like the style just fine. I don't like the hype. While most of so called judo has diminished into "Olympic" tachiwaza, GJJ has taken center stage in the latest martial arts craze.

It's all judo...

[JadeDragon]

Is your KF lineage of some importance? Is there any reason to spell your style name in some obscure dialectic refrence?

No? Would it be "stealing" to say your master was not a kung fu teacher? How about if you claim to "MODIFY" a certain mis spelled STYLE and call yourself the GRAND Master of it?

Don't get me wrong, I like the style just fine. I don't like the hype. While most of so called judo has diminished into "Olympic" tachiwaza, GJJ has taken center stage in the latest martial arts craze.It's all judo...

I don't think that Gracie Jiu Jitsu has taken center stage as of lately, maybe in the begining but now anymore. You have lots of people teaching BJJ now days. You have the Machado Brothers Machado Jiu Jitsu BJJ Rigan Jean Jacques Carlos Roger John Machado, Popovich Jiu Jitus (which is BJJ)Learn Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu-BJJ- Mixed Martial Arts-MMA Ft Lauderdale- Florida, and you have other as well.

My kung fu lineage is special to me because I studied under our grandmaster (Dr. Wing Lok Ng) for a few years as well as directly under one of his students (John Dufresne) who studied under GM for 25+ years. To me thats special. Not everyone gets the chance to study under a grandmaster or a 1st generation student of a grandmaster. My style(s) of kung fu is sil lum kung fu & Ng family style kung fu. Ng family style kung fu is a family style kung fu that is heavily influenced by six harmony kung fu.

[Ben Grimm]

They're all just different variants of Judo. Plain and simple.