Lets divide the real CMA from the Fakes

I think part of the main issue here, is that many do not understand what a Kung Fu fighters techniques look like, really, I am speaking of many of the grapplers o wrestlers , or those with limited knowledge in others styles of even limited knowledge in Kung Fu. .They may have some knowledge, but like I asked before have they ever seen or even imagined a fighter taking a low unicorn stance and a intricate hand guard in a MMA fight. The answer is no, and so they speak from what they do not know or understand, often.

I also think that some have gust given up on their kung fu as a complete system. This may happen for many different reasons. They may not have been taught ground fighting in their system, or they watch MMA fights on TV and see the full contact fighting and think this is different than the forms we do and the sparring we do. Or they have fought grapplers and lost. But I am only encouraging those who study Kung Fu and those who are interested in it, to consider the vast resources available to them n the Kung Fu world.

And by the way I do like many things I see in jujitsu and nijitsu.

But I think the stress in on how do we fight on the ground, instead of lets find thousands of techniques from our Kung fu styles that can be used to avoid being taken to the ground and to stop the attacker in his approach. Or lets find the many techniques that can help us escape quickly when taken to the ground. Or a third one, lets develop many techniques of kung fu for the ground position. And finally, in this order, lets incorporate some jujitsu and ninjitsu techniques that we adapt with kung fu principles and other clawing, Chin Na, animals styles etc

[Ben Grimm]

Then I'll enjoy his sense of humour, hehe.

[Tant01]

HuSanYan. You're full of it. ....

Yeah but he FUNNY! LOL

Enjoy,

[Ben Grimm]

HuSanYan. You're full of it. TigerClaw you have no WuDe.

[clfsean]

http://www.youtube.com/v/XSp7eWBvpPE&hl=en&fs=1

Your right... Yellow Bamboo rulez!

[clfsean]

Normally I wouldn't be hidding anything, but because of some people in these forums, I am going to play things close to the chest.

Fine... PM it then.

You should be able to tell this about me, I have posted pics videos, pics of some of my instructors flyers etc .Not a secretive as some.

An old tshirt & a Photoshop flyer doesn't speak to much.

I would like to see you do a form, or post pics or techniques.

Pics don't do anything. They don't capture motion & intent.

Anything else is quid pro quo.

By the way, do you think that Choy Li Fut has answers for defense against grapplers? If so, what?

It has some & things can be found if they're looked for depending on your idea of a grappler.

[Tom Yum]

My powers of Chi are such a force to be reckoned with that I could very easily beat you all without even a single physical blow.

ben grimm & clfsean, tigerclaw could easily beat your punk asses any day of the week.

http://www.youtube.com/v/XSp7eWBvpPE&hl=en&fs=1

[HuSanYan]

Chi

My powers of Chi are such a force to be reckoned with that I could very easily beat you all without even a single physical blow.

ben grimm & clfsean, tigerclaw could easily beat your punk asses any day of the week.

It doesn't matter... it's not said. Period.



I'd pay to see that...



I doubt it. I've come across no one as secretive & flakey as you in all my dealings with CLF family around the country & globe.

Normally I wouldn't be hidding anything, but because of some people in these forums, I am going to play things close to the chest.

You should be able to tell this about me, I have posted pics videos, pics of some of my instructors flyers etc .Not a secretive as some.

I would like to see you do a form, or post pics or techniques.

By the way, do you think that Choy Li Fut has answers for defense against grapplers? If so, what?

[clfsean]

By the way, to merely point out a few things to CLFdevil (i think that is who i was talking to) is also different than saying it to the man himself.

It doesn't matter... it's not said. Period.

I most likely would not say anything to him in person unless he asked me. I do have some manners.

I'd pay to see that...

And you seem to forget I really love Choy Li Fut Kung Fu.

I doubt it. I've come across no one as secretive & flakey as you in all my dealings with CLF family around the country & globe.

You don't criticize elders for anything. He's been practicing & teaching longer than you've been breathing!! If you have something to say like that, you don't!!! He & others from his generation have forgotten more about fighting than you'll hope to know.

By the way, to merely point out a few things to CLFdevil (i think that is who i was talking to) is also different than saying it to the man himself. I most likely would not say anything to him in person unless he asked me. I do have some manners. And you seem to forget I really love Choy Li Fut Kung Fu.

[clfsean]

No, I did not insult him, I made constructive criticism, not insult. I merely pointed out what I saw. I think I also compliment him as well, I can't remember fully or even check, because some childish banning took place in there.

You don't criticize elders for anything. He's been practicing & teaching longer than you've been breathing!! If you have something to say like that, you don't!!! He & others from his generation have forgotten more about fighting than you'll hope to know.

Actually you did. You insulted Poon Sing's performance on video from Youtube. He's a CLF elder...

No, I did not insult him, I made constructive criticism, not insult. I merely pointed out what I saw. I think I also compliment him as well, I can't remember fully or even check, because some childish banning took place in there.

In an (quite possibly futile) attempt to drag this thread away from derision and lineage challenges, let's look at this question from another perspective:

KFM - you say that Kung Fu has tactics to deal with grappling. That in itself is not in question*, although since the majority of KF styles (like boxing) are 'stand up' styles - the value of those solutions is in question and relatively untested.

Could it be argued then, that grapplers have equivalent solutions to deal with Kung Fu practitioners and their suite of groin kicks/eye gouge techniques?

*What is perhaps in question is your ability to do the things you say you can in real life combat survival situations - and the logic of relying on a range of skills that you refuse to use (and therefore test) outside of a life or death situation.

I am sure that other styles like jujitsu etc have solutions to many attacks from a standup position. But, as far as knowing the many kung fu attacks and variations of movements, I am sure that many other styles do not have full understanding of these. Part of the ability to overcome another attacker in combat is the ability of surprise as well. If a jujitsu man was used to fighting a certain way for years and he never saw much more than your typical kick boxing attacks. Then many of the Kung Fu attacks and defenses would be foreign to him. This element of surprise is also imortant in combat.

For example, the time one of my masters fought a Black belt Tae Kwon Do student in our club. The Black belt most likely had never seen the Praying mantist style my master did, and he was easily overcome. This can be the same for Jujitsu and other grapplers. But , again everything depends on the man and his ability, if the kung fu man does not know his techniques that well and the jujitsu man knows his techniques well, the jujitsu man will most likely fair well.

Like I said before, have you ever in all the history of MMA fights seen a man take a low unicorn stance with a snake or mantis guard. This would be unusual to the fighters and the unorthadox fighting pattern would surprise the other fighter. This is what I saw Happen with Gracie. He used a specific style that some had not really understood, and he dominated the arena. Because others were like bralwers and wrestlers and some kick boxing Muay tai etc. The same would most likely be true of real kung fu in stances etc. Except I already mentioned reasons why many Kung Fu men would not want to enter such arenas. Even if a fight did happen this way, eventually men would start to study Kung Fu as they did jujitsu and soon the surprise element would be lost. They would start to learn how to defend and attack a praying mantis fighter or snake stylist or tiger stylist etc. This also happened somewhat with the jujitsu fighters.

But as far as the ground fighting and grappling. Kung Fu has many surprises here. It would be a very different kind of fighting. But soon the techniques would be learned and men would figure out different strategies to combat.

Also, within many stand up techniques the same principles can be applied on the ground in many cases. For example, when a person strikes a Praying mantis stylist, there are a vast amount of techniques used to catch, trap, lock, deflect etc., the incoming strikes and to shift balance etc. Now lets say the Praying mantis fighter is on the ground mounted and the opponent is striking his face, many of the same techniques that work while standing up can work on the ground, . The Praying mantis fighter has to learn how to shift his body weight and look at his ground position as a stance type of position, using his hips and legs right. I have tested this to some degree and these things work well. Again, I also have learned some jujitsu techniques that I incorporate as well at times., usually for weigh distribution. But the many kung fu techniques that exist in close quarters can be applied on the ground. I have not heard many even speak of this kind of thing.

There are also many Chin Na techniques that work great on the ground, or standing. One thing also that I don't se in many MMA fights is finger breaking. Is that allowed? If not then the whole fight would change there as well. I have seen men with their fingers all over mens faces and I have seen men grabbing the opponents wrist and his fingers are in an open hand position. To someone who practices Chin Na, and other joint locking techniques that is a key attack.

As far as real life combat situations. There are some things I never want to see, like driving the fingers deep into the eye sockets or, tearing the eye lid right across from a rear grabbing position. I don't have to see this to know it is a life saving technique. just like I also teach knife defense, but I do not want to put my students in a real life and death knife defensive situation to know that the techniques work. We can use rubber knives and if we want to get creative we can have the fast attacks done with the knife coated with red paint etc. I know some may use real knives and really get cut etc. But where I teach that is not possible or even desired.

[sunwukung]

In an (quite possibly futile) attempt to drag this thread away from derision and lineage challenges, let's look at this question from another perspective:

KFM - you say that Kung Fu has tactics to deal with grappling. That in itself is not in question*, although since the majority of KF styles (like boxing) are 'stand up' styles - the value of those solutions is in question and relatively untested.

Could it be argued then, that grapplers have equivalent solutions to deal with Kung Fu practitioners and their suite of groin kicks/eye gouge techniques?

*What is perhaps in question is your ability to do the things you say you can in real life combat survival situations - and the logic of relying on a range of skills that you refuse to use (and therefore test) outside of a life or death situation.