MMA sport fighting and Kung Fu combative.

[TigerClaw]

So that's Budoseek, Bullshido, Dragonslist, and now here. He's on quite a roll...

Wrong, as far as I know it was DL and certain childish men who banned me and didn't want to be exposed.

I wait eagerly for even one things to show my error.

By the way, when I was banned wrongfully, here is what some had to say about it,

Lotusmaster,

"...IDK I'm American and I know not everyone here is but I'm proud that I can go to my nations capital and say anything I want (short of threatening the life of an official) and it be protected as freedom of speech.

I don't like KFM's attitude and approach personally and I don't want to defend him but I also don't want to use that as an excuse to be a tyrant towards him. As I see it, and perhaps I missed a post or two but, he never threatened anyone or so much as cursed at anyone that didn't curse at him. I just feel bad about banning him for no real reason if I'm missing something please enlighten me as to why we've done this.


Lotusmaster

"Ok imo KFM was not anything that he said he was or at least gave us no reason to believe he was what he said he was but should we ban him for it? IDK I'm American and I know not everyone here is but I'm proud that I can go to my nations capital and say anything I want (short of threatening the life of an official) and it be protected as freedom of speech.

...I don't want to defend him but I also don't want to use that as an excuse to be a tyrant towards him. As I see it, and perhaps I missed a post or two but, he never threatened anyone or so much as cursed at anyone that didn't curse at him. I just feel bad about banning him for no real reason if I'm missing something please enlighten me as to why we've done this."

then Wraith Alcon answered

by Wraith Alcon

"The fatal flaw in that logic is that this is a private forum and does not operate under "freedom of speech" laws. The people at Dragonslist can ban whomever they want for whatever reason they want..."

Then Lotus master answered

lotusmaster

"Oh I get that it's not illegal. I just wanted to be sure that it wasn't a matter of we don't like you so you're banded. Which is pretty much what happened when kung-fu was outlawed and the Heaven Earth society came into being "fan qing fook ming" and all.

So I think we can clearly see that even others are aware of the childish, "I can ban you if I want to ha ha" kind of stuff that goes on, and for no good reasons.

I think that some need to apologize for their actions and lies. But will that ever happen, I doubt it.

I know that I will make enemies instantly as soon as I say that another person is a liar or as soon as i expose some men who are in their high towers and feel they have some control over others by their little forum game. But I tell the truth and they need to change, they get all puffed up and proud and don't want to change or admit to even one flaw. So they just ban me before they look to bad. LOL

A wise man loves correction and he will hear it and consider.

And yes, by the way, I can still see what goes on in the DL and I could get back if I wanted. But I was almost out of that place a long time ago, on my own.

[TigerClaw]

I double posted here by mistake ...

[Tant01]

And we care about all this proverbial "dirty laundry" why....?

[Tom Yum]

That's pretty much where I am. This thread makes me think of medieval times when everyone would take the day off, get drunk and watch a hanging whenever a condemned criminal went to the gallows. I've got my beer and red rep. is there rotten fruit that I get to throw at the condemned

Just make sure jubaji doesn't get to the rotten fruit before its passed out - I hear they haven't fed him since he's been let out of the cage - but he might eat the troll first, opting for the rotten fruit dessert.

[Tom Yum]

I know that I will make enemies instantly as soon as I say that another person is a liar or as soon as i expose some men who are in their high towers and feel they have some control over others by their little forum game. But I tell the truth and they need to change, they get all puffed up and proud and don't want to change or admit to even one flaw. So they just ban me before they look to bad. LOL.

No one here is perfect. The reason why you rub people the wrong way is that it shows you don't understand what you are talking about, try to build momentum with your opinion and throw more and more credibility out the window.

You can help yourself by taking a martial arts class for a few months and then coming back here with some real experience. No one will knock you for it.

Go forth and train!

[TigerClaw]

I started in martial arts when I was about 19, I am 45 now. I think some here may have not really learned much Kung Fu, or they may have given up on it to pursue jujitsu or other type of MMA fighting.

[Ben Grimm]

Wrong. What you call MA and what we call MA is not the same. It's people like you that give TCMA a bad name. And it's really not necessary to bring back parts of a conversation. You seem to have missed out on explaining all of the reasons. But I'm not into dirty laundry, just the present.

[TigerClaw]

Wrong. What you call MA and what we call MA is not the same. It's people like you that give TCMA a bad name. A

What I call traditional martial arts may be different from yours because I teach traditional Kung Fu, like, Hung Gar Choy Li fut, Northern Shaolin, Seven Star Praying Manti, Shaolin s etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. These are very clear facts and parts of my training.

So if you say that what you teach is traditional and it us not the same, then what do you mean?

[TigerClaw]

And we care about all this proverbial "dirty laundry" why....?

It answers Ben Grimm s lies about my past and exposes him for the errors he has been telling about me, and regains confidence in those that have heard of things I teach them in regards to grappling and self defense. And basically rebukes those that would say anything against me when the facts are different.

[Sagacious Lu]

What I call traditional martial arts may be different from yours because I teach traditional Kung Fu, like, Hung Gar...

That's interesting because I did train in Hung Gar for several years and a lot of the crap you post is directly contrary to things that my Shr fu taught. You really do sound like you're full of shit. I find it hard to believe that you're 45 and genuinely believe the things you post; at least I hope you haven't lived that long and learned that little.

[TigerClaw]

That's interesting because I did train in Hung Gar for several years and a lot of the crap you post is directly contrary to things that my Shr fu taught. You really do sound like you're full of shit. I find it hard to believe that you're 45 and genuinely believe the things you post; at least I hope you haven't lived that long and learned that little.

Well, I did learn Hung gar and it is one of the style that I teach. I know the forms and other weapons of Hung Gar. I also teach some two man forms. Tell why would you think that I don't know and teach them?

The ground fighting that I have spoken of is not a man part of Hung Gar. By the way Hung gar is just one of the things I teach, I have studied many other things over the years.

I don't know why you have chosen to believe the liars about me, I have given my credentials and there are even names of my instructors around if you look, except my Choy Li Fut master, who I do not want to name, for other reasons. I am encourageing you to not believe the liars about me and what i have taught. I know what i am speaking about. You may have your own opinions about Kung Fu and MMA and other styles, thats ok, share them and lets see what you think.

But when you say that I teach things contrary to your teacher. tell me EXACTLY what that is?

But tell me, what is the first form in the five animal form? And what is the first four moves in the Tiger and Crane form called? Also, what are the twelve bridges of Hung Gar?

[Sagacious Lu]

Well, I did learn Hung gar and it is one of the style that I teach. I know the forms and other weapons of Hung Gar. I also teach some two man forms. Tell why would you think that I don't know and teach them?

The ground fighting that I have spoken of is not a man part of Hung Gar. By the way Hung gar is just one of the things I teach, I have studied many other things over the years.

I don't know why you have chosen to believe the liars about me, I have given my credentials and there are even names of my instructors around if you look, except my Choy Li Fut master, who I do not want to name, for other reasons. I am encourageing you to not believe the liars about me and what i have taught. I know what i am speaking about. You may have your own opinions about Kung Fu and MMA and other styles, thats ok, share them and lets see what you think.

But when you say that I teach things contrary to your teacher. tell me EXACTLY what that is?

But tell me, what is the first form in the five animal form? And what is the first four moves in the Tiger and Crane form called? Also, what are the twelve bridges of Hung Gar?

Sure, I'll tell you why I doubt you. First off my teacher was very honest about the fact that learning forms and the associated "combat applications" would not teach you to use the techniques against a resisting opponent. He also admitted that his style didn't focus on or have the expretise in ground fighting that other styles like BJJ or Sambo do. He would have laughed at the idea that you could defeat an elite fighter like Rickson (or Royce) Gracie by simply kicking them in the balls and poking their eyes as if that were an easy thing to do. That's just common sense to anyone that trains seriously.
The first animal form we learned was Tiger Fist called (forgive my spelling) Fu Hu Chuan in the mandarin that my teacher learned it in in Taiwan. After that came Crane Fist along with a two person set and an eagle form that isn't taught in ALL branches of the Hung Chuan lineage. The next things we learned were two staff forms and a wooden bench form. I didn't get to a high enough level to learn the first combined Tiger/Crane form because I got sick of practicing FORMS and choreographed "combat applications".
I quit because I saw that I'd learn more about fighting by sparring and working a heavy bag; that's why I joined a boxing gym. I'm not going to debate all your posts point by point because I don't think it's worth my time but if I'm going to be insulting I figure I should at least tell you why.

[TigerClaw]

Sure, I'll tell you why I doubt you. First off my teacher was very honest about the fact that learning forms and the associated "combat applications" would not teach you to use the techniques against a resisting opponent. .

Well, truthfully that does not sound like a good teacher. All Kung Fu in Hung Gar forms is useful for combat and though some of it does work on conditionaing , there are many techniques that are used in combat. Read your history about the true Hung Gar.The Lineage that I stem from is Lam Sai Wing Your Hung Gar sounds very different from the one I teach. I am familiar with it, but it looks very different. I teach the very traditional one, you know the characters Wong Fei Hung, Lam Sai Wing, etc.


But to say that Hung gar does not work in a fight against a resisting opponent, shows that you know little about Kung Fu. I would not suggest anyone take Kung Fu from any man that said that.

WE teach the forms and the applications and the two man applications with resistance and at various speeds and levels of attack. We also teach the techniques combined with other aspects of the forms and interchange many of the moves for endless combinations.

In Boxing there are a few strikes and endless combinations, the same is true for Kung Fu but there are many strikes and counters etc and endless combinations.

The famouse Tiger and crane form has moves that were used in history against resistant opponents. There is so much in the Hung Gar forms tht ais useful in combat that I can hardly know where to begin.

When I first heard you say this I thought you were joking, now I begin to wonder if you you are just a grappler who is trying to put down Kung Fu. Because your teacher said some of the most ridiculous things about Hung Gar and you seemto agree. Just read some writings of Lam Sai Wing about the practical use of the forms and the many different combinations and uses he had for them.

He also admitted that his style didn't focus on or have the expretise in ground .fighting that other styles like BJJ or Sambo do. .

First of all, I never said that Hung Gar alone had the answers for all grapplers etc. But it does have some. I have learned many other things and styles, as well as developed from all the styles I have learned techniques that can apply on the ground. The Hung gar I teach can apply to grapplers also, but It deals alot with the approach of the grappler not as much on the ground. Though many of the techniques in Hung Gar can be used on the ground. If you don't understand this then you have not really studied Hung Gar enough. Well, at least the traditional most common and famous Hung Gar taught throughout the world.

He would have laughed at the idea that you could defeat an elite fighter like Rickson (or Royce) Gracie by simply kicking them in the balls and poking their eyes as if that were an easy thing to do. .

I never said it was that EASY to do. And I only mention some very basic moves there are many, many, many other techniques to escape from grappling situations and Kung Fu has a vast resopurce to draw from

The first animal form we learned was Tiger Fist called (forgive my spelling) Fu Hu Chuan in the mandarin that my teacher learned it in in Taiwan. .

No I was refering to the Traditional Hung Gar in the five animal form, the first is dragon. Then tiger etc. The Hung Gar you teach is foreign to me, and I would have to really research to find out the lineage and history. I am slightly familiar with it, but it is not the most common Hung Gar as far as I know.

I didn't get to a high enough level to learn the first combined Tiger/Crane form because I got sick of practicing FORMS and choreographed "combat applications". .

That is the real issue here. You got sick of practicing, and you didn't get to a high enough level.

This is why Kung Fu didn't work for you, you were a novice and like so many other novices, they get discouraged at first when they cannot fight in form and when they have to learn all the stances etc. No wonder your Kung Fu was no good and didn't work for you. But talk to a person that trains hard and that has developed his stances to be fast and stronga dn that can shift in them effortlessly. Then you will see that Kung Fu is good and has , I believe the most effective system of fighting on the planet. And the most advanced and comprehensive system.

The reason you quit is a classic example of what I am talking about and why I so often see people throw away their Kung Fu and become kick boxers or seek to go into other styles. Kung Fu takes many years to perfect, but in the long run it can make for a far better fighter and for practicle combat, (in my opinion).

I quit because I saw that I'd learn more about fighting by sparring and working a heavy bag; that's why I joined a boxing gym.

I believe the reason you quit is because you either did not have a teacher that inspired you enough or taught you the applications for combat enough, or you just gave up and got tierd of training hard. Or you could not understand how the stances and form movements could be used in combat. Or a mixture of all four things.


So you are saying that you learned more on your own by just sparring others than the masters who deveolpod the style and the tradition that was passed down based on actual war and combat techniques in Hung Gar? I don't think so, I think you just weren't diligent enough. But again, the Hung Gar that I teach is very different from yours. Yes there are some similarities but the Hung Gar Kung fu I teach works in combat. And I am sure that the Hung gar you learned works in combat also. By the way the forms teach you differnt things but when you learn the forms they are to be mixed up and interchanged in combat. The many techniques are like an alphabet and you learn how to make words and then stories etc. But you just seemd to learn some of the basic letters. Kung Fu is much more than that. You gave up way too early.


Here are some sights that talk about the Hung gar Kung fu and its effectiveness in combat and against resistant attackers.

Hung Gar History

Hung Gar Kuen Kung Fu - EHGA Italia - AHKI

Hung Kuen Net - Online Hung Gar Kung Fu Resources

[Ben Grimm]

Hung Ga is a solid style, but not when you learn it from a book and then claim it as your own.

[Sagacious Lu]

you just gave up and got tierd of training hard.

Actually the amount of time I spent training nearly doubled after I stopped wasting time on forms and the like and my level of conditioning soared.

So you are saying that you learned more on your own by just sparring others than the masters who deveolpod the style and the tradition that was passed down based on actual war and combat techniques in Hung Gar?

No, I learned more by training under knowledgeable boxing coaches coupled with sparring against other trained fighters.
FYI boxing can be traced back in history further than just about any style other than wrestling... which I also did competitively for years. Go ahead and do a google search, you'll find out how long ago the first recorded boxing matches occured as well as when the oldest punching bag we've discovered dates from. It's flat out silly to pretend that any brand of kung fu predates other styles, especially Tiger Crane which wasn't codified until after the fall of the Shaolin Temples... even if you could pin down exactly when that happened.

Hung Ga is a solid style, but not when you learn it from a book and then claim it as your own.

I have to disagree with you there Ben, Hung Ga (Gar, Chuan, whatever) suffers from ineffective training practices (like forms and choreographed combat applications) as well as additions from "masters" that never had to use their techniques to defend themselves. You can blame the Chinese political climate for that if you want but the end result is that there are better ways to learn how to fight. That's not to say there isn't anything useful to be found in kung fu, just that the way it's trained has lost a lot of relevance over the years.


I should probably stop here just because posting seriously in this topic gives the illusion that I think the thread starter is worth debating with.