MMA Sport fighting and Kung Fu combative, the real difference...

[TigerClaw]

Do you ever fight and/or spar with said "boxers and MMA people?" I can talk to doctors all day, but it doesn't mean that I'll be able to perform open-heart surgery.



I'm not sure what this is supposed to prove. Either way, does this MMA club have a name?

Yes I have had them try some of their techniques on me and they came fast. But Kung Fu works great as I have said many times. Or at least it works great for me.

[USArmyBJJ]

Yes I have had them try some of their techniques on me and they came fast. But Kung Fu works great as I have said many times. Or at least it works great for me.

I understand that you've said this numerous times. I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but now, it's wearing thin even on me (and I'm generally a patient person).

What people are looking for is some sort of proof that what you are saying is true. Some sort of video or something. Certainly your boxing buddies and MMA buddies would have no problem video taping your matches together. This is a very common practice in those circles. I'll ask you again - do you have any actual proof that what you're saying works actually does work?

Everyone is just repeating themselves over and over, and it's creating an impasse. But, a video might clear things up and lead to a breakthrough here...

[TigerClaw]

I understand that you've said this numerous times. I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but now, it's wearing thin even on me (and I'm generally a patient person).

What people are looking for is some sort of proof that what you are saying is true. Some sort of video or something. Certainly your boxing buddies and MMA buddies would have no problem video taping your matches together. This is a very common practice in those circles. I'll ask you again - do you have any actual proof that what you're saying works actually does work?

Everyone is just repeating themselves over and over, and it's creating an impasse. But, a video might clear things up and lead to a breakthrough here...

I have posted some videos of things and pics of techniques in the past, and it doesn't change the attitudes of some. No matter what I posted it would make no difference to some. I don't want to post videos of me all over the net. It is too egotistic for me to do that.

I am just discussing certain aspects of combat and the difference between the sport and survival combat. This seems to bring many out in here that are mockers and attackers of anyone who even suggest for a second that kung Fu has answers to grapplers and techniques that can be used very effectively against them.

[USArmyBJJ]

I have posted some videos of things and pics of techniques in the past, and it doesn't change the attitudes of some. No matter what I posted it would make no difference to some. I don't want to post videos of me all over the net. It is too egotistic for me to do that.

Now I'm confused. First, you said that you have posted videos and pics in the past. A sentence later you said that you won't post videos because it is too "egotistic." Which one is it?

Either way - it isn't egotistical to say, "Here's a technique I say works. Here's a vid of it working." That's not egotistical. That's just providing evidence of a claim.

I am just discussing certain aspects of combat and the difference between the sport and survival combat. This seems to bring many out in here that are mockers and attackers of anyone who even suggest for a second that kung Fu has answers to grapplers and techniques that can be used very effectively against them.

They would mock you less if you could prove to them that what you're saying isn't just random internet tough guy talk. I bet if you could show people proof, most (though not all), would be more willing to accept what you have to say.

[JadeDragon]

For those of you who doubt kung fu's fighting practicality and are putting kung fu down I ask this....Why are you even reading a Chinese Martial Art thread about Kung Fu? If you dislike kung fu or think that it is useless then why bother reading about it. It seems like most here have already made up thier minds about it's effectivness. It's not up to us kung fu practitioners to prove anything to anyone. We know it works for us and thats all that matters. If you want proof of its effectivness then I suggest you go take lessons for about a year or longer and study it yourself.

[USArmyBJJ]

For those of you who doubt kung fu's fighting practicality and are putting kung fu down I ask this....Why are you even reading a Chinese Martial Art thread about Kung Fu? If you dislike kung fu or think that it is useless then why bother reading about it.

I can't speak for anyone else - but I'm here because I enjoy the debate and this forum seems to have the most active (and fun) debates.

It seems like most here have already made up thier minds about it's effectivness.

I think that's largely true. But that's one of the great things about discussion boards - you get to debate issues and perhaps convince others who aren't already on your side. Or, you just get to argue and have some fun.

It's not up to us kung fu practitioners to prove anything to anyone. We know it works for us and thats all that matters.

Then don't even bother with these threads! What's the point, right? The point for most of the people on these threads is to convince others that they are right. Either don't participate, or do participate and just have some fun while trying to learn a bit and trying to convince others that you're right.

If you want proof of its effectivness then I suggest you go take lessons for about a year or longer and study it yourself.

I don't think anyone should sink costs in something that isn't effective just to get proof that it isn't effective. That's why this thread is important. Someone could read it and become convinced that either the MMA guys are right, or the Kung Fu guys are right and then go to the class of their choice and not waste their time or their money on something they don't want or need.

[jubaji]

Now I'm confused. First, you said that you have posted videos and pics in the past. A sentence later you said that you won't post videos because it is too "egotistic." Which one is it?.

When tigerclown talks about things he has posted, he is talking about pictures from magazines and clips from old movies he's seen. (I know, I know)

[TigerClaw]

Now I'm confused. First, you said that you have posted videos and pics in the past. A sentence later you said that you won't post videos because it is too "egotistic." Which one is it?

Either way - it isn't egotistical to say, "Here's a technique I say works. Here's a vid of it working." That's not egotistical. That's just providing evidence of a claim.



They would mock you less if you could prove to them that what you're saying isn't just random internet tough guy talk. I bet if you could show people proof, most (though not all), would be more willing to accept what you have to say.

I have posted a few vids before and I don't even feel right about that. I don't want to post all sorts of videos of me showing off. That is not the kind of person I am.

I could give 100 percent proof and show teachers and clips and lineages etc etc etc. But I am way past wanting to do that with some of the people I have met. I may post the odd techniques if it can be done in a simple sharing of information way.

The reason I posted some escapes from grappling attacks was to explain further about what I was saying. But they just say things like, Oh that won't work, or other rude talk. I am aware that every technique i describe o show has a counter and all of them can be escaped from.

I really don't care if they believe me or not. pary of my discussion with some is to expose them of their error as well and let all see that they have been lying about me. I care about people lying about me. But I don't care if they believe what i say or not. I tell the truth and they attack and mock. That is really their loss then. They don't have to learn anything from me.

And I have no desire to pick fights with people here. I have no desire to fight period unless for self defense and helping others. I do spar with others , but this is with people I know and under control. To me i would have nothing at all to gain, by going to a arranged fight with someone and fighting under strict rules in a ring, or with no rules in a ring. I don't seek vainglory or to proudly dominate over another person. To me moral attitude and integrity is the most important.

And I am not afraid of them. That is not the issue.

[JadeDragon]

"I don't think anyone should sink costs in something that isn't effective just to get proof that it isn't effective. That's why this thread is important. Someone could read it and become convinced that either the MMA guys are right, or the Kung Fu guys are right and then go to the class of their choice and not waste their time or their money on something they don't want or need."


Seems like you already made your mind up as well. Why waste time with arguing with people who refuse to change their mind. I could sit here til I'm blue in the face trying to convince you and/or others and it wouldn't do any good.

Let me ask you this. How long has grappling arts been around? Historically it goes back to the collosium and the roman gladiator days. How old are the Chinese martial arts? 100's and 1000's of years old. I'm sure that kung fu practitioners 100's of years ago up to present day have encountered a grappler or two. Why is it that if grappling is so superior to kung fu why does kung fu still exist and being practiced. You would think that all the kung fu practitioners and masters would have been beat and/or killed in combat a long long time ago by these superior fighter who know how to wrestle/grapple. For Chinese martial arts to have survived the test of time it must have some REAL combat value.

[TigerClaw]

When tigerclown talks about things he has posted, he is talking about pictures from magazines and clips from old movies he's seen. (I know, I know)

No I have posted my own pictures of me doing techiques,

Like these,

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo119/HungFighter/shoot4final.jpg

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo119/HungFighter/PrayingmantisPage1sample.jpg

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo119/HungFighter/IMG_0089.png

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo119/HungFighter/KungFuClassesnew1.jpg

[TigerClaw]

"I don't think anyone should sink costs in something that isn't effective just to get proof that it isn't effective. That's why this thread is important. Someone could read it and become convinced that either the MMA guys are right, or the Kung Fu guys are right and then go to the class of their choice and not waste their time or their money on something they don't want or need."


Seems like you already made your mind up as well. Why waste time with arguing with people who refuse to change their mind. I could sit here til I'm blue in the face trying to convince you and/or others and it wouldn't do any good.

Let me ask you this. How long has grappling arts been around? Historically it goes back to the collosium and the roman gladiator days. How old are the Chinese martial arts? 100's and 1000's of years old. I'm sure that kung fu practitioners 100's of years ago up to present day have encountered a grappler or two. Why is it that if grappling is so superior to kung fu why does kung fu still exist and being practiced. You would think that all the kung fu practitioners and masters would have been beat and/or killed in combat a long long time ago by these superior fighter who know how to wrestle/grapple. For Chinese martial arts to have survived the test of time it must have some REAL combat value.

Good point

[JadeDragon]

Good point

Thank you. Arguing with some of these people gets tiresome.....lol. Know what I mean?

[USArmyBJJ]

Seems like you already made your mind up as well. Why waste time with arguing with people who refuse to change their mind. I could sit here til I'm blue in the face trying to convince you and/or others and it wouldn't do any good.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say (probably my fault for not being clear enough). If you read it in the context of the rest of the paragraph, I was saying that no one should sink costs into something that is ineffective and a person could come here before they sunk those costs to determine which style best suits their needs based on their reading of the arguments presented by both sides. I specifically made mention of the fact that a person could choose MMA or Kung Fu based on this thread. Make sense?

For Chinese martial arts to have survived the test of time it must have some REAL combat value.

I don't think that conclusion is necessarily derived from the premises. But ok.

[Tant01]

When the Shaolin warriors here start packing guns and wearing body armor I'll be happy to take some kung fu lessons... Until then I have little to fear from snake, mantis, tiger, crane, dragon...etc...bugs and birds and mythical creatures are cool but seriously? I'm not exactly struck cold with fear of the lethal techniques and vital targets...

Phui.

[TigerClaw]

Thank you. Arguing with some of these people gets tiresome.....lol. Know what I mean?

Yes I know exactly what you mean. Here is a post I read from a person on another site i go. he was responding to me about this issue, I just found it interesting. And he use to be a BJJ guy,

"I live in Albuquerque New Mexico, one of the MMA meccas of the world. I am surrounded by meat heads all over town who have been brainwashed to fight without cause or concern. I used to live with one such fighter who fought regular amatuer boughts and a rare professional fight. He did muay thai, or in reality the watered down version of muay thai that has become the norm these days. This was my first exposure to the MMA mentality, every arguement overany normal roomate issues turned into him getting enraged and trying to fight me. I studied BJJ under the gracie system and while i do respect the art, there were a handfull of things i didnt care for. First off, half the guys in my class were nuckleheads who wanted to prove something. Secondly i became increasingly aware of the risks i was taking physically and mentally. I stopped training for two main reasons. After class i would go to kung fu and be partially retarded from having been choked out during practice ( not just sparring but in learning the moves we would all choke each other out) and because during a sparring match my opponent and I were at a stalemate when or instructor called time, while I released tension and started to sit up my opponent decided he would use it as an opportunity to put min an arm bar, forcing me to tap. he then got up with his chest out as if he had in fact just proved himself, that was the last time i went to that class. Classless, that about somes up 90% of all MMA practitioners/fans. I would not care if it were agknowledged as a SPORT and nothing more. However people have been brainwashed into believing it is true fighting. People really do believe that MMA is the most advanced form of fighting ever, they thing that kung fu is a "fantasy", just a bunch of bedtime stories. I tell people that i study kung fu and they laugh, tell them i studied a little jujitsu and they thing im dangerous. The hardest part in training in BJJ was sparring and not being able to explote all the openings they gave you. The only way to end this is for a master to enter the tournament (the older the better :-) ) and run the show; problem is anyone whos studied kung fu to that extent would have no concern or desire to have anything to do with it, they have nothing to prove."