MMA Sport fighting and Kung Fu combative, the real difference...

[KenshiRyan]

Most of the dirty techniques aren't too hard to learn, but they are not part of the regular training of most sports fighters. Now if a wrester or boxer wants to go and learn some of these techniques to add to his arsenal, maybe in a krav maga class or whatever, he could learn to do it just like the kung fu guy. However he won't learn it in his wrestling or boxing class, whereas the kung fu guy will.

dirty techniques dont require training in order to apply just a bit of creativity and will to do serious damage to someone, getting into the right positions to do so requires training; which is what nearly any sport martial art will teach.
This is what we are trying to explain to tigerclaw.

Your whole arguement is "we can beat any sports fighter because we can attack vital areas", Im telling you, big whop so can they, and you have so far come up with nothing to prove otherwise, because there is no such thing.

Now if a wrester or boxer wants to go and learn some of these techniques to add to his arsenal, maybe in a krav maga class or whatever, he could learn to do it just like the kung fu guy. However he won't learn it in his wrestling or boxing class, whereas the kung fu guy will.

your annoying me. wtf are you telling me this for? Iv never said boxing and wrestling teaches eye strikes etc, this has nothing to do with the main argument.
Im sick of spoon feeding you, go back and re-read this thread, then hopefully you'll understand why we are against tigerclaws rediculous (and repeatitive) posts.

[Garth]

Most of the dirty techniques aren't too hard to learn, but they are not part of the regular training of most sports fighters. Now if a wrester or boxer wants to go and learn some of these techniques to add to his arsenal, maybe in a krav maga class or whatever, he could learn to do it just like the kung fu guy. However he won't learn it in his wrestling or boxing class, whereas the kung fu guy will.

[KenshiRyan]

My sifu has taught me many techniques that are effective fight-enders, however as I can't be sure you won't use them for evil rather than good I won't tell you, but just be assured that in kung fu there are many dirty and "unfair" moves that will stop any attacker in his tracks and in many cases maim him or worse.

Yeah......anyway,

If you wana claim to be able to beat somone, bring some valid ways of doing so, not "secret techniques" that are to secret to tell to common folk..

my point was a sports fighter can attack your vital areas too, your whole argument against that is " Oh well I know these secret techniques, but I wont show you them cause your evil and will use them for evil things"
the fact that you already relise that I could use them for "evil means" with a brief description over the internet shows that anyone can do them, which just proves my original point.

[jubaji]

My sifu has taught me many techniques that are effective fight-enders, however as I can't be sure you won't use them for evil rather than good I won't tell you, but just be assured that in kung fu there are many dirty and "unfair" moves that will stop any attacker in his tracks and in many cases maim him or worse.

.....................


Holy crap, another escapee from the LARPer farm!

[Garth]

What are these other attacks to vital areas that arent as easy as poking someone in the eye?

My sifu has taught me many techniques that are effective fight-enders, however as I can't be sure you won't use them for evil rather than good I won't tell you, but just be assured that in kung fu there are many dirty and "unfair" moves that will stop any attacker in his tracks and in many cases maim him or worse.

[KenshiRyan]

Okay, I'm a kung fu stylist and the way you say "these kung fu guys" comes across as if we are inferior or have some negative conotation to it. But I'll let that go, for now.

well? are you guna pull tigerclaw up for doing the exact same and making mma/ sports fighters "come across as if we are inferior"? to be honest I dont think so, so stfu and stop being such a contradict.

The reason I said "kung fu guys" is because when ever they want to advertise their art and illustrate its advantages to everyone, its always THE SAME THING "we can attack vital areas, and yeah thats pretty much why were better than you silly sports fighters"
I find it quite insulting and annoying at the utter stupidity of such a badly thought out attack on another art for the sake of boosting your own, and this is coming from someone whos taken TMA aswell as more modern sports based arts, so my opinion is purely based on the stupidity of such a statement, and also the fact that this thread has been repeated several times already by the same person.

I think that the reason that us kung fu stylists say that we'll go for vital areas and beat "these mma people" is because we kung fu stylists don't get to see "these mma people" use these type techniques in their compitition/events. We train these type strikes like mma people train arm bars or choke holds. It's going to be a natural reaction for us where as I don't believe it will be a natural reaction for a mma person because they don't train eye gauges, throat strikes, groin grabs/strikes, etc.....on a regular basis/consistantly.

ok 1) You do not train for these strikes like a mma would train an armbar, by the sounds of it you just spar and the minute one gets an eye strike he lets the other guy know "ha! I got you in the eyes your dead now, lets start again" and the valuble learning experience goes on. mma fighters dont stop until the hold or lock is fully on and the person is begining to feel the pain of what is about to be a broken arm or a choke then they stop, the benefit of this is the arm bar will not always work and the opponent may find a way out this teaches them to apply the technique more effectively in the future, and notice ways they may need to improve the hold.

lol
Now tigerclaw told us before that when he spared a fellow fighter he stuck his fingers right into the eye socket of the guy...., Iv never known any one to do this in a sparring match, but I may be wrong this may be what you mean by training these strikes like a mma fighter would train an armbar? am I right?

[USArmyBJJ]

We train these type strikes like mma people train arm bars or choke holds.

Is that actually true, though? MMA people generally train arm bars and choke holds on fully resisting opponents who are, in turn, attempting to perform arm bars and choke holds on them. Do Kung Fu practice their "vital area" strikes in the same way? I don't know the answer - that's why I'm asking.

[jubaji]

We train these type strikes like mma people train arm bars or choke holds.

That is an utterly false and misleading statement, and reflects exactly what is wrong with much of TMA training and LARPers who give all TMA a bad name.

[JadeDragon]

All I can say is: why is it when these kung fu guys imagine these fights to the death with a mma fighter or a boxer, its always the kung fu guy who seems to have the amazing revlutionary idea to go for a vital area, and the boxer or mixed martial artist (because they do sport fighting) for some reason cant comprehend the same thought and dont just stab their fingers in the kung fu guys eyes?, I mean honestly; yeah! ok! If its a proper fight and there are no rules; you can eye gouge someone, you can attack the throat, and groin and whatever vital area you want, but NEWSFLASH: THE BOXER / MMA FIGHTER CAN DO THE EXACT SAME BACK, I dont need to take kung fu to relise that if I stab my finger in your eye it will hurt you.

Okay, I'm a kung fu stylist and the way you say "these kung fu guys" comes across as if we are inferior or have some negative conotation to it. But I'll let that go, for now. I think that the reason that us kung fu stylists say that we'll go for vital areas and beat "these mma people" is because we kung fu stylists don't get to see "these mma people" use these type techniques in their compitition/events. We train these type strikes like mma people train arm bars or choke holds. It's going to be a natural reaction for us where as I don't believe it will be a natural reaction for a mma person because they don't train eye gauges, throat strikes, groin grabs/strikes, etc.....on a regular basis/consistantly.

[USArmyBJJ]

If a Kung Fu fighter got into the ring with a MMA fighter, he may get into a sprawling, grappling situation and quickly flare his fingers at the eyes of the opponent, or do a pheonix strike at his temple etc., but he would pull the technique or else serious injury would follow.

Another person was sparing with me a long time ago and i used an elusive snake technique where one hand shoots down to the groin area and the other goes back up to the eye. I hit them right in the eye and felt my fingers goes right back into the eye. It was a horrible feeling. Fortunately the person was alright after.

Do you see any logical disconnect between these two statements? I may be misunderstanding something, but it seems that you gouged someone's eyes and they didn't die or even get seriously injured.

[Ben Grimm]

Dude, I'm not worried about what you said about the dumb remarks. I've known TigerClaw from another forum he was banned from. All because of the same shit he's doing now. He rubbed everybody the wrong way.

[KenshiRyan]

im not attacking anyone. Followed a couple of these discussions and they all go down the same path, which is why i am asking that it stays on topic rather then resorting to name calling and other immature acts.

We were on topic? in fact things have gone way off track because of what we are talking about.

Yes i agree, Tiger's comments seem a bit like pissing in the wind, but at the same time, i understand that he is passionate about his art so he likes to defend it and state that it is the best. but dont we all?

what Im doing is defending an art (actuly multiple arts) what tigerclaw is doing is telling us how arts that have a sports element to them are ineffective in real life situations, this is not DEFENDING kungfu, this is saying quite the oposite, making quite an offencive claim to other people about arts they may participate in.

And no I dont like to state my art is the best because I know it isnt, as is the same with any other art.

My only point is, if you arent going to say something constructive about the topic on hand, say nothing and let it go down the path and end, rather then getting off topic with dumb comments and it starting again else where.

My apologies to Ben if he felt i was attacking him. Was nothing personal and not only aimed at him but everyone.

.....we have been constructive? we've given valid explanations to prove our point? Ben grimm only made one post which comes across to you as pointless? and you get worried about us getting off topic, stop getting your undies ina twist.

as you said,
rather than getting off topic with dumb comments..

lets keep on topic, and wait for tigerclaws reply.

[-FIGJAM-]

im not attacking anyone. Followed a couple of these discussions and they all go down the same path, which is why i am asking that it stays on topic rather then resorting to name calling and other immature acts.

Yes i agree, Tiger's comments seem a bit like pissing in the wind, but at the same time, i understand that he is passionate about his art so he likes to defend it and state that it is the best. but dont we all?

My only point is, if you arent going to say something constructive about the topic on hand, say nothing and let it go down the path and end, rather then getting off topic with dumb comments and it starting again else where.

My apologies to Ben if he felt i was attacking him. Was nothing personal and not only aimed at him but everyone.

[KenshiRyan]

been here for a few months now. I know the whole issues behind TC, but if we could discuss rather then saying stupid remarks, would be better for all.

Just my thoughts

Why pick on Ben grimm? he makes one remark you dont agree with and you imediately attack him? what about the bull tigerclaw's been spouting through out this thread?

and yeah it would be great if we could discuss the topic, but as you can see tigerclaw isnt coming up with much to back up his statements, which is why discussions have slowed, not because of ben grimm.

[-FIGJAM-]

been here for a few months now. I know the whole issues behind TC, but if we could discuss rather then saying stupid remarks, would be better for all.

Just my thoughts