Technique discussions, pictures and video etc.

[Uncle Skippy]

But once the lock is on, if you move right away there are many escapes.

I hear this from some as if there is nothing they can do. That is one of the reasons i don't want to study any art that has no answers for certain things.

It isn't about the art.

It is about BASIC physics and body mechanics.

It is that simple.

A grappling/wrestling art is full of escapes. It **HAS** to be. There are lots of **GOOD** escapes from the RNC. But you don't know that because you don't train in it.

You have no leg to stand on and nobody takes you seriously.

[JadeDragon]

And I always have stance training and moving in stances as part of the class. It is the harder part of the class, painful at times.

My sifu would have us students do stance training. For front stance we would do what he called half moon walking. This consisted of us starting in a front stance or as some call it, a bo stance. Then we slide the back leg up to the front leg and then out to the front, back into a front stance (or bo stance). The foot never leaves the floor. He called it half moon walking because when you advance forward your leg is making a crescent shape like a half moon. We would do these up and down the gym floor.

[bunnyfufuman]

If you push up and out at an angle the elbow it does not force the locking hand tighter. Also you are peeling the hand behind the head forward and up as you twist and duck under with force.

Yes it does. I find it strange you won't admit that this is a low percentage option. Are you sure you're a teacher?

Especially since it seems that some of your stances lack proper weight distribution and possibly bad alignment.

Show me what stances you are talking about.

And I have had formal stance training for many years and with the sifus I trained under. And I always have stance training and moving in stances as part of the class. It is the harder part of the class, painful at times.

In grappling/wrestling, there is a point in a position/choke/lock where you will not be able to escape.

Just a heads up :-)

Show me your technique, pictures or video of what you say. I can agree that a RNC escape would not be effective if you just start to try it after 5 seconds

But once the lock is on, if you move right away there are many escapes.

I hear this from some as if there is nothing they can do. That is one of the reasons i don't want to study any art that has no answers for certain things.

There is almost always an escape, if done quickly enough. I am not talking about a guy hitting you full force in the face. the defense for that is almost infinite. There are so many counters to a strait punch it would be too hard to catagorize them all.

TC i wasnt having ago at your technique. If you read some of my past post you will see that i tried both of them. Neither of them worked for me, but after i tweaked them with my instructor i sore results. So I did learn something from your posts.

There is no solution that works for everyone. Some MMA chokes dont work on me because of my body make up. You have to allow for that.

Hey, the technique I showed will work on most people if it is done right. But I can agree that a 250 pound man grabbing, lets say a 4 year old skinny child will make it impossible for the child to escape with this technique, especially if they are lifted off the ground. So yes there are some exception. Also each technique does have play in it, and need to be adjusted to work for the body type. That I can agree.

But this is just one of the many escapes from that position.

I am glad that you made it work for you.

You're technique works for the leverage of the RNC. It pushes the leverage arm into the lock. This reduces the chance of an escape and in most cases will just cinch the lock.

If you push up and out at an angle the elbow it does not force the locking hand tighter. Also you are peeling the hand behind the head forward and up as you twist and duck under with force.

[LuohanFist]

Hey TigerClaw, I spent half the night reading the Bullshido forum in detail, and I must say, I am definitely disappoitned, and shocked... I understand your need to protect your masters from MMA assault, but the people there were just trying to confirm your credibility as an instructor. Every single person when asked about their lineage, gave clear indication and rank, but you found this quite difficult to do... and I am now wondering why.

It seems very illogical, and at some points outright asinine not to follow up with some of the simpler requests for proof of training. Even I did. Proof is the foundation of our modern society, and upon it we base our modern beliefs. I am deeply saddened by this.

I somehow feel that Kung Fu is no longer the art for me. I'd like to take a hiatus from my training and do some soul searching, re-align my chi, and find my true self. I wish you all good luck, may you accept Lord Krishna as your saviour and redeemer.

I told you, that I haven't got an escape per se....But when Mr Cai explains that something won't work, then I do listen and ask why.

That may be parts of the problem, besides your (LARPIng attitude of your own greatness), you don't have a teacher that know of the many escapes. And you also have no escapes for them.

I posted just a few of the escapes, besides mine here are a few,

YouTube - Wing Chun Training - Rear Choke Escape

YouTube - Defending rear naked choke

YouTube - MMA Stand-Up Fighting for Self Defense : How to Escape a Standing Choke Hold

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH7Z4ZpeD94&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFmOY_joBKc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciPmQOubP-A&feature=related

I am not saying that all these will work with the same effect, but you can see that there is many options

there are more, but as you said, you don't have and escape. You have alot to learn.

[bunnyfufuman]

Here is mine done by others very similar,

YouTube - MMA Stand-Up Fighting for Self Defense : How to Escape a Standing Choke Hold

I have seen it in other places as well, I will have to search around for it.

It does work, and everything I teach works good. Are you a martial arts instructor? do you have any background to justify your argument against it. Some have tried it in here and said it works. The technique I showed has to be done with the details of the move considered and applied .

By the way I also posted those other escapes to rebuke the men in here who say there is no escape from the RNC once locked in. These men who implied this know very little and are obviously not good martial arts students. They really have no answers for some attacks. But as I said there is always an answer.

The way those guys did the escape is all wrong. Most people would agree with this.

Yes, I teach martial arts.
Yes, I have a background in martial arts that justifies this. I also didn't say yours wouldn't work I said it doesn't work well. You think it works well that's just egotistical. You want it to work well.

I've got an exellent escape from a locked in RNC. I've done it. I've done it to others. You have about 4 seconds if that thing is locked in depending upon you and the person putting it on.

Your defense is not good. It is an option but it should not be given as a go to maneuver. You're technique works for the leverage of the RNC. It pushes the leverage arm into the lock. This reduces the chance of an escape and in most cases will just cinch the lock.

The one you showed with the British folks works against the leverage and moves the arm out of the lock and counters the grip. Pretty easy kinetic logic.

[Uncle Skippy]

there is always a counter to the counter...

Just remember that there is also a 'point of no return,' especially in grappling/wrestling arts.

In boxing, it is when you've been hit.

In grappling/wrestling, there is a point in a position/choke/lock where you will not be able to escape.

Just a heads up :-)

[Uncle Skippy]

Interestingly one of my newer students made a comment about how I move in stances. They had seen kung fu movies and other stance moves and thought they were just a show and not possible in real life. But after he saw me move in stances and fight from them and demonstrate techniques he said he was amazed and realizes that it is possible. I am just telling you what his comment was like.

He has begun his pursuit of stance training and practice in this area. Unfortunately he has some weakness in legs and feet. but he is slowly getting past it.

I hardly think that a newer student who has just seen Kung Fu movies is able to make an informed decision on the matter.

Especially since it seems that some of your stances lack proper weight distribution and possibly bad alignment.

It doesn't seem like you have might had extensive formal or structured training yourself.

[-FIGJAM-]

there is always a counter to the counter...

[Tant01]

Or not...

Here is mine done by others very similar,...

It does work, and everything I teach works good. Are you a martial arts instructor? do you have any background to justify your argument against it. Some have tried it in here and said it works. The technique I showed has to be done with the details of the move considered and applied.

By the way I also posted those other escapes to rebuke the men in here who say there is no escape from the RNC once locked in. These men who implied this know very little and are obviously not good martial arts students. They really have no answers for some attacks. But as I said there is always an answer.

I don't think anyone here said there was NO ESCAPE from a rear naked choke... Perhaps I missed something?

Here's the thing... IF I were to apply a standing RNC and the defender attempted THAT defense technique I could easily get his hands off my arms by making him break his fall. It's fairly instinctive to put your arms out when you're about to impact terrain with your face.

I have read folks here tell how precious FEW seconds the defender may have but we must also REALIZE how easily the attacker can buy time to finish his assault?

Or not?

[Uncle Skippy]

so much for exercising your creativity, eh? LOL

I was channeling Billy Madison :-)